Italy says 99 percent of those who died of Covid-19 had other illnesses

More than 99% of Italy’s coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions

just three victims, or 0.8% of the total, had no previous pathology. Almost half of the victims suffered from at least three prior illnesses

The average age of those who’ve died from the virus in Italy is 79.5

All of Italy’s victims under 40 have been males with serious existing medical conditions.

the country’s death rate closer to the global average of about 2%

Source

We have some new information coming out of Italy about the deaths of those infected with Covid-19. Once again, we can see that the danger of this virus is being blown massively out of proportion. The overwhelming majority of people who are dying are elderly people with other pre-existing conditions; in fact, ALL of the victims who died under the age of 40 had other serious existing medical conditions. Only 3 victims total, THREE, had no previous pathology. The people dying of this virus are the same people at risk of dying of any other virus, like the flu.

This virus is not some global humanity-ending apocalypse.

Of course they did. There’s a lot of old, sick people in Italy and their healthcare system isn’t the best. I’m sure that’s why it was specifically targeted out of the countries in Europe.

We’ve shut down the world because 9,000 people have died in three months. (150,000 people die per day of natural causes and 12,000 people died just in the US from H1N1). This is just about instituting authoritarian measures on the population and virtually nothing about any virus. Travel restrictions will never be lifted, these two rounds of checks will turn into universal basic income, and ta-da we’re living in the communist/totalitarian state the Deep State has wanted for decades.

I still don’t want to catch it, but that’s just me.

I know younger people think it is no big deal. The human brain just won't let younger folks realize that one day they will be old, they will be ugly, they will have other health conditions, and people will find them useless social service sucking parasites.

But as one in the Senior age range, I can tell you it is terrifying for us.

It is scary for my late 70's MD friend, an expert on AIDS who was brought into our State's CV task force and is working hard and keeping us abreast of what is going on. (important to note: He was brought back by the government because of his expertise in HIV)

It is scary for many of my age 70's friends who are the ones who volunteer in the prison system, teaching life skills like money management to prisoners, or the ones who raise support for and give support to the prison release programs. It is scary for my 86 year old mother who teaches free computer lesson 3 times a week at the center and helps drive the great-grandkids to after school activities because both parents work. It is terrifying for my best friend who owned a daycare center for 28 years and beat cancer leaving her kidney's a mess.

But younger people still see older people as useless and a drag on society. I get that. I did too when I was younger.

Now that I am in that age range and have many friends who are, I see the great benefit we are to society that is overlooked. We are the majority of volunteers who keep non-profits running during the day when younger people are at work. We are the caretakers of grandchildren who get to do enriching things parents don't have time for. We are the ones in the trenches helping the needy and poor that young working folks just don't have time for. Yet, it isn't until you get to the Senior years that you realize this.

We are the segment of society that most people think, is it no big deal if we die.

But if we die in mass, or get permanent lung damage leaving us unable to contribute to society. It might be felt by society in a big way. (MRI's of recovered patients are showing permanent lung damage)

I can understand where younger people think this is overblown and no big deal.

BUT

Did you know the virus is a combination of the SARS (respiratory virus) and a "more serious virus"? A variant of the HIV virus, which is why AIDS drugs are working on some very seriously ill patients. This variant doesn't appear to cause immune deficiency.

BUT

Like Chicken Pox, and Herpes, we don't know what it might do down the road. Maybe nothing. Maybe like Chicken Pox which stays in your spinal column and emerges late in life as very painful shingles. Maybe like Herpes that stays in your spinal column and reemerges in times of stress. This is a virus after all, with two very serious combinations within it, we don't know the long term complications, if any.

Would parents have held gleeful and fun Chicken Pox parties if they knew that they were ensuring their children later in life had a good chance of getting shingles? I don't think so.

I think this virus was clearly engineered (in a bio facility - got accidentally loose) to reduce the surplus elderly population which is a huge problem in China with their cultural refusal to use nursing homes, and with one couple supporting 4 elderly adults and a single man caring for 2 elderly adults alone - because of the one child policy.

Could it have also been bio-engineered to re-emerge like Chicken Pox does as Shingles, and keep solving the problem of people living too long and being a "burden on promised social services" as people age or get other health conditions? We don't know that yet.

There is a reason all the governments of the world are freaking out and I mean over the top freaking out. I think there is so much more to it that they feel they can't release to the public. I get a clear feeling of that from what my MD friend does say but more importantly what he skirts and won't say.

I can only use an educated guess based on logic to try and figure out why all governments are going postal on this one.

Remember nearly every world leader/President/Prime Minister/etc. is a senior citizen. Even our Presidential candidates: Biden is 79 with additional health problems, as is Sanders. Sanders had a recent heart attack and Biden has had brain aneurysms and brain surgery.

Look at congress and most world governmental bodies, most if them are over 65 and my bet is a nice majority have other health issues.

a reply to: trollz

Once again, we can see that the danger of this virus is being blown massively out of proportion. The overwhelming majority of people who are dying...

I believe the point is that these sick people are overwhelming the hospitals and healthcare system... not necessarily that people are dying, since people are being refused care and left to die.

If these people would just be a little more considerate and die at home... alone, scared, hurting... instead of trying to seek professional medical help, it sure would be nice of them, eh?

a reply to: trollz

All the people who had serious pre-existing conditions should not be counted as part of the fatality rate for CV19 because that's how it works for other illnesses such as the flu. In the US people who die while they have the flu aren't recorded as having died from the flu if they have another serious illness because the underlying condition is actually what killed them. I know people like to throw around this number of 50k or 60k flu deaths each year in the US, but that's really just a rough estimation. The CDC states they don't record flu death numbers for adults because people who have the flu and die often have other underlying illnesses which allow them to get the flu easier, along with a range of other reasons. This is why the flu fatality rate looks so much lower than CV19, every single one of the people who died in Italy while infected with CV19 are recorded as part of the death statistics.

CDC does not know exactly how many people die from seasonal flu each year. There are several reasons for this. First, states are not required to report individual flu illnesses or deaths among people older than 18 years of age to CDC. Second, influenza is infrequently listed on death certificates of people who die from flu-related complications. Third, many flu-related deaths occur one or two weeks after a person’s initial infection, either because the person may develop a secondary bacterial co-infection (such as bacterial pneumonia) or because influenza can aggravate an existing chronic illness (such as congestive heart failure or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease). Also, most people who die from flu-related complications are not tested for flu, or they seek medical care later in their illness when influenza can no longer be detected from respiratory samples. Sensitive influenza tests are only likely to detect influenza if performed within a week after onset of illness. In addition, some commonly used tests to diagnose influenza in clinical settings are not highly sensitive and can provide false negative results (i.e. they misdiagnose flu illness as not being flu.) For these reasons, many flu-related deaths may not be recorded on death certificates.

Frequently Asked Questions about Estimated Flu Burden

a reply to: The2Billies

But as one in the Senior age range, I can tell you it is terrifying for us.

Sorry, but the world shouldn't stop spinning because old folks are scared. The damage it is doing to world economies at this point is astronomical, likely to result in many people being reduced to poverty and will even lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths of younger working people as a result. As I've said a hundred times now, this panic only makes sense if there's something we're not being told about the virus. I believe there's a very high probability the virus was bio-engineered and leaked from the level 4 lab in Wuhan, there's also some indications that CV19 could have long term health implications. If any of that turns out to be true then I would agree this sort of heavy handed response is warranted, but there is absolutely no reasonable argument to justify risking economic collapse otherwise.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I still don’t want to catch it, but that’s just me.

Same here. If I get it I know I'll survive it, but my lung capacity isn't the best as it is, I really can't afford to lose another 20-30% of it. I don't smoke cigarettes or anything like that, but I do take advantage of CO's wonderful legalization laws to help with my 38+ years of migraines.

So, even if the majority of the panic is a bunch of hooplah, I still want to do everything in my power to at least try not to get it. We just found out our 2 year old nephew up north just got tested for it and he has a few health issues himself, so we're also hoping he can have a full recovery.

They are also saying 40% of those who got seriously ill needing hospitalization were between 25 and 50.
Not just an illness affecting the elderly.

a reply to: trollz

So they are not dying but the young are getting seriously ill.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
They are also saying 40% of those who got seriously ill needing hospitalization were between 25 and 50.
Not just an illness affecting the elderly.

Yep, and the fact that they're saying many of those who recovered lost lung capacity, yeah, I'm still paranoid and cautious.

a reply to: oriondc

You're right Italy's healthcare system isn't the best.
It's the second best behind France.
Italy has one of the highest life expectancy in all of Europe.
Maybe that is why there are so many old people there.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Sillyolme
They are also saying 40% of those who got seriously ill needing hospitalization were between 25 and 50.
Not just an illness affecting the elderly.

Who is they exactly and what stats are they using? It's very clear the severity of the virus increases exponentially with age. I don't think there is a single case of anyone under age 10 dying from CV19, although that may have changed in the last day or two.

a reply to: trollz

I would need to look into how they are defining all the words they are using. Like for instance "previous medical conditions." I would like to know how many people in a general population would first fall under that category. This of course ties into the general reporting of the disease between countries as well, which can skew the numbers however they say fit. I have heard some countries will not file it under a coronavirus death, if they had another illness alongside it.

Number games are always a favorite of any propagandist, because it's as i said, numbers can be manipulated all based upon classifications. The real thing that we can see that is tangible, where "numbers" are irrelevant, would be overloading of healthcare systems. That is what the focus should be. Because that is something that you can easily see with your own eyes, hospitals being filled, and no room left, or nor resources left.

Which brings up Italy, where of course if they are out of resources and they then have to pick and choose who gets treatment, they are going to go with those more likely to survive in the first place. Which means they will choose younger people to help first, and then the deaths in the older population, whether from this coronavirus or something else, will increase, since they just wont be getting any medical treatment.

But this of course doesnt mean younger people wouldnt have also died, if they were turned away like the older people.

a reply to: The2Billies

There is a reason all the governments of the world are freaking out and I mean over the top freaking out. I think there is so much more to it that they feel they can't release to the public. I get a clear feeling of that from what my MD friend does say but more importantly what he skirts and won't say.

Sorry I should have read your full post before replying. There is probably something they aren't saying, but how do we know any of this is true if they wont tell us? It's considered a conspiracy theory and most young people wont take the virus seriously unless they know it's a real threat to them. Our governments are stuck between a rock and a hard place, if they don't tell us why they are panicking so hard we don't trust them and ignore the warnings, but if they do tell us then it could risk much more damage. I really don't know what should be done at this point but something needs to be done because the economic damage is getting out of hand, there's no way this can continue for several more months.

a reply to: Sillyolme

psst - want to make the wingnuts spin ???

remind them that the midian N19COVID faltal age in italy = higher than the US median life expectancy

you may thank me later

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: The2Billies

But as one in the Senior age range, I can tell you it is terrifying for us.

Sorry, but the world shouldn't stop spinning because old folks are scared. The damage it is doing to world economies at this point is astronomical, likely to result in many people being reduced to poverty and will even lead to a lot of unnecessary deaths of younger working people as a result. As I've said a hundred times now, this panic only makes sense if there's something we're not being told about the virus. I believe there's a very high probability the virus was bio-engineered and leaked from the level 4 lab in Wuhan, there's also some indications that CV19 could have long term health implications. If any of that turns out to be true then I would agree this sort of heavy handed response is warranted, but there is absolutely no reasonable argument to justify risking economic collapse otherwise.

I accept your apology in your next post.

There has to be something else going on for every government official in the world to be totally freaked out.

My MD friend on the task force won't say. I sent him an obscure article about an HIV variant being part of the virus and how HIV drugs have been effective as last ditch efforts to save people. I asked if this was fake news or if there was something to it. His reply "We know of this and what happened in Spain, and are greatly interested in it and taking it seriously." That is all he would say.

Why else pull an old man MD out of retirement in his 70's, no one exceptional now that he has retired. Except he is a real expert in HIV. He was the ONLY MD for counties around who would treat HIV patients for many years. He became a surgeon general of the prison system in our state and treated HIV in the prison system too when no one else would. Why pull this old man out of retirement to work him hard on the task force?

He has consistently advised his Senior citizen friends to self isolate and take what would seem to you like extreme measures of sanitation and self-isolation. Because he has compassion and cares about Senior citizens.

I suppose the economic solution would be to remove all restrictions except stress Senior Citizens, including Senators, Congresspeople and world leaders self-isolate and for people to band together to help the isolated Seniors.

But what if, just what if, and we don't know, I want to stress that, we really don't know - except for the fact that even people with mild cases who have appeared to fully recover, show permanent lung damage on MRI's - what the long term effects might possibly be with the HIV virus tied into the SARS virus. Remember Chicken Pox and Shingles, and no one put that together for a very long time.

As an aside: I keep a copy of that article with my health insurance card with a signed note saying I give permission for Doctors to use these drugs if I am hospitalized from the virus, even though it is not an approved or thoroughly tested treatment.

a reply to: The2Billies

Just remember, someday you will be old too. Then how will you like being tossed to the curb like dirt?

If I was old I still wouldn't promote this sort of panic based on the symptoms or death rate, I would still have concern for the world economy and all the people who would suffer if it crashed. I wouldn't place my own well being ahead of global stability, I would think about all the young people who still have their entire lives ahead of them and the world they'd have to live in. We are both saying the same thing though, there's something we don't know, and if that's true then the panic may be justified.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I wrote you a different answer and deleted the one you posted after you apologized.

However, old people matter and are productive and keep most non-profits going. If I listed all the good, and I mean REAL concrete good my Senior friends do, you might not believe it. We don't get paid, but we sure as hell contribute to society as much as we can!

My real concern? A time bomb built into the virus, like in Chicken Pox, only worse since there is an HIV variant in it and even young people who "fully recover" are being found to have permanent lung damage on MRI's.

a reply to: The2Billies

I'm not saying old people are unimportant, their life is just as important. I tend to like older people more than young people and some of my favorite people are old. All I'm saying is that some old people seem to think the world should revolve around them and we should stop everything and stay inside for months to make them feel a bit better. If there are no long term complications then I would strongly oppose that mentality and would even call it selfish. But if CV19 is more serious than we're being told, and we both agree that it is, then I wouldn't oppose this sort of extreme response. It's just hard to determine what the truth really is, I don't want to help prolong the economic damage but I also don't want to see old people suffering.