Would Sodium Bicarbonate have a protective effect against Covid-19?

First, the obligatory disclaimer:

Diseases and Pandemics: Medical Disclaimer.

The contents of abovetopsecret.com's Diseases and Pandemics forum is contributed in part or in whole, by nonprofessionals.
No warranty whatsoever is made that any of the posts on this forum are accurate. There no assurance that any statement contained or cited in any thread touching on medical matters is true, correct, precise, or up-to-date. Even if a statement made about medicine is accurate, it may not apply to you or your symptoms.

The Diseases and Pandemics forum is not a substitute for the advice of a medical professional.

None of the members, moderators, developers, sponsors of this forum nor anyone else connected to Abovetopsecret.com can take any responsibility for the results or consequences of any attempt to use or adopt any of the information presented on this web site.

Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of Content found on this forum.

If you have a medical emergency, call your physician or 911 immediately.

Seriously, people, don't do anything stupid. The purpose of this thread is to merely discuss an entirely unscientific, but interesting, observation on my part.

A week or so ago, I watched this video about a woman who lived through the 1918 Spanish Flu era. She claimed her family was the only one in their town to avoid infection. You can see it here:



She attributed their "luck" to the possibility of her mother's insistence that their family take a daily dose of bicarbonate soda.

Certainly not compelling testimony at this point. But then I remembered something that has been bugging me for a while.

Germany.

Look at the ratio of their CFR (case fatality rate) relative to their European neighbors:



Odd, no?

So maybe its just related to timing and the CFR will come in line in a few days with everyone else. But I've been watching their numbers for quite awhile and they just aren't tracking in the same way as other countries. I've read that some attribute it to their healthcare system. But I know that system and I see little material difference to others in western Europe. But maybe they are right. Time will tell.

But returning to the topic of this thread, I decided to do some research on sodium bicarbonate to see if there was any scientific evidence that it might help with something like this current crisis.

Frankly, there doesn't seem to be much out there. I certainly found many adjacent studies addressing bacterial and fungal infections. And a few related to SB as an external disinfectant. But nothing directly on point. (Maybe some of you could find something and post it here in this thread. I'll, of course, keep looking.)

There was, however, this interesting posting:

Baking Soda May Help Fight Colds And The Flu

Some people believe that when taken internally, baking soda can help maintain the pH balance in your bloodstream.

This is likely the basic premise behind its recommended uses against both colds and influenza symptoms. In their booklet “Arm & Hammer Baking Soda Medical Uses,” published in 1924, Dr. Volney S. Cheney recounts his clinical successes with sodium bicarbonate in treating cold and flu:

“In 1918 and 1919 while fighting the ‘flu’ with the U. S. Public Health Service it was brought to my attention that rarely anyone who had been thoroughly alkalinized with bicarbonate of soda contracted the disease, and those who did contract it, if alkalinized early, would invariably have mild attacks.

I have since that time treated all cases of ‘cold,’ influenza and LaGripe by first giving generous doses of bicarbonate of soda, and in many, many instances within 36 hours the symptoms would have entirely abated.

Further, within my own household, before Woman’s Clubs and Parent-Teachers’ Associations, I have advocated the use of bicarbonate of soda as a preventive for ‘colds,’ with the result that now many reports are coming in stating that those who took ‘soda’ were not affected, while nearly everyone around them had the ‘flu.’

Recommended dosages from the Arm & Hammer Company for colds and influenza back in 1925 were:

Day 1 — Take six doses of ½ teaspoon of baking soda in glass of cool water, at about two-hour intervals

Day 2 — Take four doses of ½ teaspoon of baking soda in glass of cool water, at the same intervals

Day 3 — Take two doses of ½ teaspoon of baking soda in glass of cool water morning and evening, and thereafter ½ teaspoon in glass of cool water each morning until cold symptoms are gone

Snake oil? Perhaps.

But this brings me back to Germany.

Read this:

Why Germans Are Obsessed with Mineral Water

Most people know how particular Germans are about their beer, but they can be even more particular about their water. (Germans can be particular about anything they set their minds to.) Though German tap water is among the safest and best-tasting in Europe, most Germans prefer bottled water, in mineral, sparkling, and flat varieties, purchased by the case at the grocery store, or by the bottle at a restaurant, like wine. Water in German restaurants is offered with or without Gas, but even most non-sparkling water offered at restaurants and bars won’t be tap water, but uncarbonated mineral water.

...

In 2016, Germany’s per capita bottled-water consumption was estimated at 46.8 gallons, compared to 39.3 gallons per capita in the US, where citizens’ relationship to bottled water consumption varies by region and class.

...

Mineral water is a different beast entirely, and a German will be the first to set you straight. Technically a kind of spring water—unfiltered water bottled from a natural spring—mineral water is created as rainwater seeps through layers of earth, acquiring mineral elements along the way, which remain in the water. EU law requires that mineral water marketed as such be minimally treated, if at all, with allowances made for removing certain naturally occurring elements like iron, sulfur, and arsenic. The specific mineral makeup of every region determines the mineral content of the water filtered through it. It’s the ultimate check on those of us inclined to say, “But it all tastes the same.” It all sort of does, at least to an American rube like me, but taste isn’t the entire point. Germans who insist on mineral water insist on it for its chemical properties as much as its flavor and carbonation. Many springs contain dissolved carbon, and are therefore naturally sparkling, but EU law also allows for carbonation to be added or removed to taste during the bottling process. A single mineral water brand may offer two or three tiers of carbonation, much like pulp in orange juice, ranging from flat to extra-sparkly.

...

But Germans’ fizzy fixation comes with an added touch of regionalism. Due to its history, Germany is more regional than might be expected for a country smaller than the state of Texas. From the earliest Germanic tribes to the country’s modern beginnings, in 1871, when German-speaking kingdoms and duchies were unified, to its division into East and West from 1949 to 1990, and subsequent reunification, German citizens often identify strongly with their region of origin. That can be reflected in loyalty to their hometown brewery right down to their taste in water. There are nearly 150 commercial mineral springs in Germany, each with its own regional fan base.

...

Selters

Selters is a town of about 8,000 people in the west-central German state of Hessen, nestled in the Taunus Mountains. Though first mention of the town’s mineral spring dates from 772, it was made famous in 1581 by the city physician of nearby Worms (as in Diet of), who spent several pages of a publication on “water cures” exalting the acidic water of Niederselters.. The mild irony of Selters and Selterswasser being the source of our modern “seltzer” is that mineral water from Selters is high in sodium bicarbonate, making it, in essence, mineral club soda. Selters’ water was exported widely as early as the 18th century, and was the highest-selling mineral water in Germany until 1871, when it was overtaken by the now-giant Apollinaris, from Bad Neuenahr in Rhineland-Palatinate, which substituted heavy earthenware water bottles with more transportable glass ones.

Interesting, no?

In any event, remember the disclaimer above!

If iv learned anything from voodoo witchcraft it wont work unless you are at 200x the recommended dose

a reply to: markovian

Like I said, don't do anything stupid.

a reply to: loam

Don't do anything stupid? Like spraying your kid with disinfectant spray when you go pick them up from school?


....or cover your entire head with a plastic garbage bag?


LINK

a reply to: loam

www.aljazeera.com...

After one infected 16 at Berlin nightclub, coronavirus fears grow
Panic spreads across Germany, with officials calling on people to avoid concerts, nightclubs and football games.

Too soon to tell. I have read that making the body more alkaline is good for health, who knows if it is good enough for this...

Here's what I'm thinkin...If alcohol, handsanitizer is prevention from COV-19 then it might work internally as well.

Perhaps instead of containment and quarantining, we should go to bars and drink margaritas and whisky sours.

Drink responsibly and call an uber.

Makes more sense than toilet paper, drink a teaspoon a day, why not?

a reply to: loam

I was going to say "have you tried wrapping a potato in paper" but then I realized I was eating chips from a local shop and that doesn't seem to make me immune to viruses.



There may, however, be something in it, but I don't think consuming small amounts of either acids or alkali's really noticeably changes the state of blood alkalinity.

It may be that bicarbonate of soda changes gut and trachea alkalinity and that this has a slight disinfectant action upon the virus in contact with fragile mucous membranes.

Sodium Bicarbonate does initially lower stomach acid, but over the longhaul, it boosts the production of it and some of the pancreatic enzymes, like lipase, and proteinases. So, it could cause the digestive system to boost it's enzyme and disolve the viruses in the stomach. I am making a logical guess based on what I know.

Now, boosting the trypsin proteinase elevates it in the blood a little which could possibly destroy this virus like bromelain does and also it may destroy the virus's papain like proteinase and virtually take away it's weapons. This virus does have the ability to create a proteinase that has the ability to destroy the antigens the body creates and effectively destroys the bodies ability to fight it or other viruses and bacterial infections. That is similar to what the HIV virus does. So boosting trypsin might help, boosting the lypase also helps to increase monosaturated fats that this virus cannot feed on, and they soften the viral defense system....sort of how monolaurin works to make viruses more apt to be destroyed by the immune system.

When the pancrease gets overloaded, too much trypsin is formed and also goes into the blood stream, which may actually kill the virus if it attacks the pancrease. But this is pancreatitis. Now, maybe when needed the pancrease does this too.

Well, evidently it does happen. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov... The problem is that this proteinase can cause damage if it gets elevated too much according to the article.

So, I cannot tell if it would be good or bad if you use sodium bicarbinate, I suppose it would be relevant to how much you consume, and your personal physiology. If you are deficient in trypsin, like many older people might be, it may help. I do not know, I base my opinion on evidence I can evaluate with my knowledge and this exceeds my comprehension at this point. There are always different ways to do things, but from what I see, it could be possible that this could cause just as much bad for some people as it does good for others.

You can buy pancreatic enzymes to boost enzymes in the body too, they may work too, but if you already make too much, it could also cause problems if your pancrease does not reduce it's production like it should do if you take the enzymes.

I know that you can correct some problems by taking sodium bicarbonate for a limited timeframe, But I do not know enough about this subject to actually recommend it, the bad can be way more of a problem than it is worth.

I might consider eating pancakes for a week to do this, just add a little extra baking soda to the mix. Good pancakes are good tasting, better than sucking on sodium bicarbonate water. Make sure it is not baking powder though, that is not the same, a little of that is good in our diet, but I avoid the aluminum ones. I get enough overreations and I would rather stay away from aluminum in foods.

It works great for heartburn, teeth brushing, odor eliminating and baking so who knows.
It could be like apple cider vinegar good for everything.

If you walk out your front door, and start pouring it in a line and walk clockwise around you house till you get back to where you started, then step back inside the ring of sodium bicarbonate, and then stay within that ring for 4 weeks, and don't let anyone else into that ring, then you probably won't get Covid19.
as usual ymmv.

Hmmm. it seems that ovomucoid in egg whites is a trypsin inhibitors and actually inhibits trypsin which has antiviral activity. I guess it lessens the effect of the cytokine storm and blocks the influenza virus. Soybeans and lima beans and some grains also do this, but it is heat liable. Here is an article about that association.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I like eggs, we just picked up six eight dozen for ourselves and the kids from our supplier, they were running around on the driveway when we got there.

originally posted by: CrastneyJPR
If you walk out your front door, and start pouring it in a line and walk clockwise around you house till you get back to where you started, then step back inside the ring of sodium bicarbonate, and then stay within that ring for 4 weeks, and don't let anyone else into that ring, then you probably won't get Covid19.
as usual ymmv.

I think ritual and voodoo will keep you safer than bicarb. I built a protective shrine out of sticks, used ceiling tiles and an broken cell phone; put it on the porch in plain view.

And put the Patron Saint of Protection in it as the focal point of meditation. Perhaps this post can be used as a cyber shrine for the devout.

a reply to: loam

all claims of " maintain the pH balance in your bloodstream."

are utter bollox

My kids have told me about a doctor who cured people of all kinds of diseases including multiple cancer patients. He brought their body's pH up .
The doctor was murdered after announcing the results.
It probably does work.

Diseases need a lower pH to thrive in a body

Sounds like an interesting possibility. My husband, who is a dialysis patient has been prescribed sodium bicarbonate in the form of pills by his nephrologist for several years now.

The doctor says that it helps preserve whatever remaining kidney function the patient still has.

We get the pills at the pharmacy even though they are nothing but baking soda pressed into pill shape.

Don’t know, haven’t done research, but...

My guess is if her mother was so insistent on the baking soda, she was just as insistent on other habits, cleaning, cooking washing, etc.

It was probably the other things that allowed them survive.

a reply to: loam

Sodium Bicarbonate can be used in dilute form as a very mild cleaning agent and is antimicrobial due to it's alkalinity (Bleech is very strongly alkaline), of course there are bacteria AND virus that are not harmed by alkaline conditions but then there are other's that are equally immune to acidic conditions.

The basic idea behind ingesting sodium bicarbonate is to try to make the body more alkaline, this can indeed retard some bacteria's ability to infect and even some virus - if the virus protein outer layer (were it also has it's enzymatic coating to allow it to pass into cell's) is adversely affected by the alkaline conditions BUT without knowing what the biological make up of this virus is, whether or not it's protein shell is vulnerable to an alkaline environment (and how strong that environment would have to be - if it would also harm the human body whose owner tried to make it more alkaline - while there own homeostasis would fight to restore there biological balance by trying to make it more acidic - well I am frankly bewildered as to whether or not this would have any affect at all, I suppose probably it would have no affect but then again it just might.

There are claim's that some form's of cancer are down to a fungal infection of the body - this is just a fringe claim but an interesting one - and that making the body more alkaline can slow down, reduce the risk of and perhaps stop some form's of cancer but as to this there is no valid scientific evidence other than some claim's.

However making your body more alkaline is actually good for your bone's especially as you age.
www.healthline.com...
www.medicalnewstoday.com...

Personally I think that while it may help to break down the virus on a surface as a mild alkaline that Bicarb is most unlikely to prove to be in any way shape or form an affective treatment, however it can be and is used as a mild sterilizing agent in laboratory's, I used to wash out the specimen fridge in my colledge day's using a dilute solution of bicarb, it can leave a thin layer of bicarb on the surface when it dries as well but this also help's to slow or prevent the spread of most micro-organism's as for the most part they do not tollerate an alkaline environment - but go look at those alkaline lakes around the world and you will find that some bacteria love it, in fact most of them are teeming with microbial life form's.

The difference is a bacteria is a cell, a single celled organism while a virus is often thousands or even millions of time's smaller, usually consisting of just a strand of RNA or DNA in a protein shell, this protein shell does most of the work but until the virus is inside a host environment it is essentially not even a living organism, it only become's active once it enters a cell or even a bacteria were it then hijack's the nucleus of the cell and turn's the cell into a replication factor that produces thousands or millions of copy's of the original virus, eventually the cell dies from this and bursts and out spew all those virus to infect the cell's around the dead cell and repeat the process.

The outer shell of a virus has enzymatic property's that allow it to pass through cell wall's and to integrate itself into the nucleus were it overwrites and hijack's the host cell's DNA.

Most anti viral treatment's are based on either innoculation - getting a person's immune system to recognize these particular proteins' that cover the rogue genetic material that is the virus itself OR developing chemical's (drug's) that will prevent the enzyme's on the virus out shell from working, both will slow the spread of the virus and in the case of the innoculation eventually the body will remove it entirely.

It's a bit more complex than this but hope this clears it up a bit.

a reply to: Raggedyman

It gives you gas. I use baking soda all the time for heartburn when i get it. I prefer Arm and Hammer to anything cheap. As someone who has taken it for 40+ years i can attest that Arm and Hammer is the best. If you have raging killer heartburn, drop half a teaspoon or so in a small glass and spray your cold water in it to mix it up, swirl it around some, then down the hatch. Be ready for big burps as the acid is turned to gas. It is like instant relief. If you have really major major heartburn you usually have to have another dose in 30 minutes, but usually one dose is enough. The key is to not over do it. Convert just enough gas to get over the hump.

V