Best argument for god? ... From an atheist

a reply to: GBP/JPY
Sorry dude,
Are you mocking me for making a pointless thread?

I agree 100% if that is what you are saying but I think I missed your point.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Or to the religious amongst us, I would like to hear your arguments for a pointless godless existence.

I am not religious at all. However, i have had a firm belief in God for about 20 years now. I still have it, and i don't see how anything could change that. If we take a rational approach, agnosticism seems most logical to me, since there is no proof for or against. But i am not going with rationality regarding my belief.

Pointless, Godless existence? Greed, hatred and violence that seems to be encoded into human DNA strain. Some people have those traits more prevalent than others, and they set the rules on this planet.

not even

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: GBP/JPY
Sorry dude,
Are you mocking me for making a pointless thread?

I agree 100% if that is what you are saying but I think I missed your point.

a reply to: Finspiracy
It sounds like you are religious.

What is your best argument in support of atheism?

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Finspiracy
It sounds like you are religious.

What is your best argument in support of atheism?

I find good bits and teachings in many religions, but i can't swallow the whole doctrine of any.

I don't recall ever thinking about arguments supporting atheism. I think it just boils down to brain structure. How they are wired, what is the level of brain chemistry balances. I am not saying one is better than the other.

originally posted by: Willtell
We can define what is the problem with God according to most peoples gripes:

One, lack of communication with us

Two, allowing such suffering

In common language, why don't we have access to the faculties to perceive God

Why does God allow such a high degree of human suffering?

God allows freewill, freewill allows for suffering
If God controlled our decisions our actions then we are no more than puppets, Him a marionette.
Love allows choice
That and in the Old Testament God stopped many nations and people from outright evil and many people call Him a monster for doing that
Damned if He does and damned if He doesn’t
Think about it

You, we all cause suffering.

God created perfection, we wanted choice

For every creation there's a creator.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

I don't dismiss your statement, but what created the original creator then?

Or has "it" or "God" always been? and me, being only a human, just can't comprehend. Maybe time is totally a man-made concept and as such, prone to fallacies or being an outright illusion.

a reply to: Finspiracy

Either the chain goes on and on and every creator has a creator or a certain creator simply wasn't created.

All in all both seem impossible though every creation has a creator.

If you would like to argue this isn't a creation I would like you to prove it with demonstrable scientific evidence.

I would like to add I don't have demonstrable scientific evidence for a creator but the created itself.

You argue this isn't a creation? Fine. Prove it.

Until you did I stick to my conviction every creation has a creator.

did you know, the whole doctrine of a free gift of salvation in the Bible, is assured and known to be assured because we gave up trying to not sin. that's right brothers and sisters....we know we can't stop sinning, but we don't have to...Jesus pays!

we are thereby assured...and do not wonder who is the real God or which book to search. Paul wrote there was war going on in his head

no other has that not islam or catholics or morms yea nor witnesses

originally posted by: Finspiracy

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
a reply to: Finspiracy
It sounds like you are religious.

What is your best argument in support of atheism?

I find good bits and teachings in many religions, but i can't swallow the whole doctrine of any.

I don't recall ever thinking about arguments supporting atheism. I think it just boils down to brain structure. How they are wired, what is the level of brain chemistry balances. I am not saying one is better than the other.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance



I am enjoying this thread. I will most likely return here later to see what others have in mind. But now some little more basic things, like grocery shopping.

a reply to: Finspiracy

That's right. All I can do in these type of discussion is blow peoples minds.

We're all in this together.

I always liked futuramas take on it god exists but he really only played a small part in seeding life

I find it hard to believe life just showed up assembled its self randomly and spit out humans but not impossible

why do we expect god to awnser prayers whos to say hes still around what makes us so speshal what are we the only child why do we think where the only ones hes made I'm kinda hoping we where atleast try number 10

I wonder do the other worlds have it worse or better do the laws of physics change or are they set in stone is there magic on other worlds do we get reincarnated between the worlds

When we get reincarnated to this world do we miss magic and that's why our imaginations always drift towards magic and the impossible is that why we experience some kinda of esp when someone is staring at us

That's my argument for god it might be confusing for a argument to be made of questions but if I could make one with answers I wouldent be hear I'd have my own religion

I'm not a atheist but I do accept no life after death is possible but that is really boring to think about

For me the only thing that makes me wonder if there was a creator is the fact that we can stop and appreciate the beauty of the world around us.

If there is a god or pantheon of gods depending on your religion then surely it is apparent they gave up on this planet millenia ago or it/they are some sick bastards who seem to enjoy the eternal suffering of all their creations.

Parasites, carnivores, omnivores.... why create such a death filled way of living for so many forms of life?

If I was creating life i would make it capable of generating sustenance from the basic elements/air itself and not make everything have to kill other lifeforms to survive.

What sort of psychotic mind designs life to only to be able to feed on other lifeforms?

All religions have their miracles but they all seemed to happen 100's/100's of years ago why is that?

originally posted by: Willtell

The biggest mystery to me is God’s allowing massive suffering throughout the ages of human experience even up until the present day.

And the suffering is in equal measure between both believers and non believers

there is no favouritism .............

What do we need a god for?

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Things are simply what they are, whatever they are.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

There are many basic constants and numbers that define the physics of the universe. Vary any of these basic constants by even a tiny amount and the universe could not exist in the way it does.

The likelihood of a single of these variables being exactly right is minuscule, however, if you take all the constants underlying physics and consider the tiny mathematical space that is stable but varied, then the probability of a univesrse being so configured is close to zero. The universe is mathematically improbable.

If you consider the 13.4 billion years since the big bang, spread across vast areas of space and potentially matter, even then the universe is still very, very improbable.

To find ourselves in such a universe, and knowing how incredibly rare it must be, and to find remarkable variation, where one might more reasonable expect a singular consistent state for everything, leads one to the conclusion that there must be a significant organizing force, because nothing else fits.

Then we come to question what that organizing force might be and that there appears to be intent. If there is intent, the intent and capability must be of a truly phenomenal scale. God like.

Similarly, the universe evolves and changes through time. It was born in a singularity and if it is truly open, it will expand forever into a state of entropy where no work can reasonably be done. For intelligent life, this would be a hard end.

So, to extend the life of much of the universe, it may be possible to diferentially collapse parts of space-time and therefore provide the energy difference required. This would consume some of the expanding universe to fuel hundreds of billions of extra years of existence.

At the point of being able to collapse space-time in such a matter, control over time itself is most likely to be trivial. So it makes sense that the accumulated intelligence's of billions of years of universal development would have the capability to pre-figure the basic physics, and ongoing development of the universe in such a way as to allow for their own existence.

This amassed intelligence is not likely to be like us. It will communicate and co-think fully. It will not experience death. It will not experience our limitations. It will be super intelligent. It will be all powerful over the physical universe. It will be of such a state that we could not distinguish it from God.

This closes the loop on the universe, making it self-sustaining - from the beginning.

Hmm. From a rational point of view there is no need for god(s).

We are pattern recognition machines but also capable of creating patterns, manipulate our environment. So I guess it is natural then to assume the patterns we see are/could be created by someone else.

There is also the psychological element of the fear of the unknown, not understanding the cause of certain patterns. Life is less scary if you can assume that there is some special meaning to it, that somebody is in control.

And personally I am perfectly fine with people believing in god(s) as long as they don't bother me with it.