Was the “vaping death” epidemic actually round 1 of Covid-19 in the US?

a reply to: SoNotYabiz

EVALI is able to be diagnosed with an X-Ray while Covid-19 requires a CT scan. If they're the same thing, why the discrepancy?

You also haven't addressed the fact that EVALI primarily occurred in the US, with a few cases in Canada. It didn't appear in other countries where vaping is popular like the UK, France, or Japan.

If your argument is that EVALI and Covid-19 are the same thing. And that it stems from China because they produce the majority of vaping supplies and cartridges, why was North America the only place affected?

Why did no family or friends of the affected get sick as well?

Your theory ignores key facts in favor of focusing on superficial symptom similarities.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: SoNotYabiz

originally posted by: underwerks
Nope. For one thing, despite what the current administration thinks it wasn’t electronic cigarettes that were making people sick.

It was people who were using Vitamin E oil to thicken bootleg cannabis cartridges. Because runny oil shows it’s been stepped on (diluted).

If you read the article or any other literature on the vaping deaths, there wasn’t anything that linked them all, even THC cartridges or vitamin e.

The link is that anything and everything could be found in them. There is no regulation and no one is checking them to make sure they are consumer friendly. Your article was also posted early on before the Vitamin E link was found.

Vitamin E acetate is strongly linked to the EVALI outbreak. Vitamin E acetate has been found in product samples tested by FDA and state laboratories and in patient lung fluid samples tested by CDC from geographically diverse states. Vitamin E acetate has not been found in the lung fluid of people that do not have EVALI.

Evidence is not sufficient to rule out the contribution of other chemicals of concern, including chemicals in either THC or non-THC products, in some of the reported EVALI cases.

www.cdc.gov...

Vitamin E is the big one, but there are likely other chemicals also involved.

Most likely the pesticide cartels spray on their cannabis crop. 80% of illegal cannabis comes from the cartel in the USA and they've been spraying their crops with a massive amount of nasty pesticide. I imagine there's a reaction during the oil extraction process depending on what the person is using to extract the oil, and it's probably why no one could figure out the cause. Especially if street dealers don't wash the buds before extraction. Which all the street dealers I've known are young, dumb and wear flatbill hats. So they wouldn't know or care.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: SoNotYabiz

EVALI is able to be diagnosed with an X-Ray while Covid-19 requires a CT scan. If they're the same thing, why the discrepancy?

You also haven't addressed the fact that EVALI primarily occurred in the US, with a few cases in Canada. It didn't appear in other countries where vaping is popular like the UK, France, or Japan.

If your argument is that EVALI and Covid-19 are the same thing. And that it stems from China because they produce the majority of vaping supplies and cartridges, why was North America the only place affected?

Why did no family or friends of the affected get sick as well?

Your theory ignores key facts in favor of focusing on superficial symptom similarities.

Actually, it did appear in other countries, but was associated most in the US with places where THC is legal or decriminalized. Not admitting to using illicit drugs had an effect on reporting the use of THC vape pens:

en.wikipedia.org...

In September 2019, a US Insurance Journal article stated that at least 15 incidents of vaping related illnesses have been reported worldwide prior to 2019, occurring from Guam to Japan to the UK to the US.[24] 12 cases of health problems with nicotine-containing e-cigarettes were reported to the UK's Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), with at least one case bearing high similarities to the lipid pneumonia cases reported in the US.[24] One lipoid pneumonia-related death in the UK was associated with e-cigarettes in 2010.[25]
Medical officials in continental Europe have not reported any serious medical problems related to vaping products except one early case related to e-cigarettes documented in Northern Spain in 2015. Since many of the cases in North America were traced to THC-cartridges as well as the use of e-cigarette vape products, but THC remains illegal in European countries, the disease burden related to vaping has been significantly lower in Europe despite the prevalence of e-cigarette use.[26]
Before the outbreak, one lipoid pneumonia-related death in the UK was associated with e-cigarettes in 2010.[25]
18-year-old Raphaël Pauwaert from Brussels died on November 6, 2019,[27] after developing pneumonia[28] and being placed in a medically induced coma because he was unable to breathe on his own.[29] He received an e-cigarette as a gift for his 18th birthday.[28] His doctor stated Pauwaert's fatal lung infection probably resulted from the CBD vapor.[30] This was considered the first death tied to vaping in Belgium.[30] Pauwaert's CBD oils he also used were tested for vitamin E at the Saint-Luc Hospital in November 2019.[29] The death is under investigation by the Brussels Public Prosecutor's Office.[31] A friend of Pauwaert's was also hospitalized with the identical symptoms after using the same type of e-cigarette, but he survived.[32]
The first case of a vaping-related lung illness in the Philippines was reported in November 2019.[33] A 16-year-old girl from central Philippines was vaping e-cigarettes for half a year.[33] She had difficulty breathing and was admitted to the hospital in October 2019.[33] She was discharged after she received treatment from a pediatric pulmonologist.[33]

originally posted by: Flesh699

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: SoNotYabiz

originally posted by: underwerks
Nope. For one thing, despite what the current administration thinks it wasn’t electronic cigarettes that were making people sick.

It was people who were using Vitamin E oil to thicken bootleg cannabis cartridges. Because runny oil shows it’s been stepped on (diluted).

If you read the article or any other literature on the vaping deaths, there wasn’t anything that linked them all, even THC cartridges or vitamin e.

The link is that anything and everything could be found in them. There is no regulation and no one is checking them to make sure they are consumer friendly. Your article was also posted early on before the Vitamin E link was found.

Vitamin E acetate is strongly linked to the EVALI outbreak. Vitamin E acetate has been found in product samples tested by FDA and state laboratories and in patient lung fluid samples tested by CDC from geographically diverse states. Vitamin E acetate has not been found in the lung fluid of people that do not have EVALI.

Evidence is not sufficient to rule out the contribution of other chemicals of concern, including chemicals in either THC or non-THC products, in some of the reported EVALI cases.

www.cdc.gov...

Vitamin E is the big one, but there are likely other chemicals also involved.

Most likely the pesticide cartels spray on their cannabis crop. 80% of illegal cannabis comes from the cartel in the USA and they've been spraying their crops with a massive amount of nasty pesticide. I imagine there's a reaction during the oil extraction process depending on what the person is using to extract the oil, and it's probably why no one could figure out the cause.

You may have a point there. I've heard of ammonia to windex being sprayed on black market weed. Plus you get pesticides like RoundUp.

Dealers were being cheap bastards and putting vitamin E to sell cheap products.

Just more reasons to legalize marijuana and stop giving money to criminals.

originally posted by: Flesh699

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: SoNotYabiz

originally posted by: underwerks
Nope. For one thing, despite what the current administration thinks it wasn’t electronic cigarettes that were making people sick.

It was people who were using Vitamin E oil to thicken bootleg cannabis cartridges. Because runny oil shows it’s been stepped on (diluted).

If you read the article or any other literature on the vaping deaths, there wasn’t anything that linked them all, even THC cartridges or vitamin e.

The link is that anything and everything could be found in them. There is no regulation and no one is checking them to make sure they are consumer friendly. Your article was also posted early on before the Vitamin E link was found.

Vitamin E acetate is strongly linked to the EVALI outbreak. Vitamin E acetate has been found in product samples tested by FDA and state laboratories and in patient lung fluid samples tested by CDC from geographically diverse states. Vitamin E acetate has not been found in the lung fluid of people that do not have EVALI.

Evidence is not sufficient to rule out the contribution of other chemicals of concern, including chemicals in either THC or non-THC products, in some of the reported EVALI cases.

www.cdc.gov...

Vitamin E is the big one, but there are likely other chemicals also involved.

Most likely the pesticide cartels spray on their cannabis crop. 80% of illegal cannabis comes from the cartel in the USA and they've been spraying their crops with a massive amount of nasty pesticide. I imagine there's a reaction during the oil extraction process depending on what the person is using to extract the oil, and it's probably why no one could figure out the cause. Especially if street dealers don't wash the buds before extraction. Which all the street dealers I've known are young, dumb and wear flatbill hats. So they wouldn't know or care.

But...this isn’t a discussion about street weed, it’s about vaping pens. 90% of THC vape pens come from China. Hence my thread.

a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Another thing I want to call out is your claim about testing. We've had the ability to test for coronavirii for a while now. That's how they were able to identify that Covid-19 is a coronavirus. It's just that in most cases it's not worth running the test because these viruses cause very mild reactions. I mean the most common example of a coronavirus is the cold.

In the case of Covid-19, they tested for the usual culprits. When that turned up nothing they widened their scope and eventually discovered they were dealing with a coronavirus.

Considering the cause behind EVALI was a mystery for so long, there's no reason to think they would not have tested for coronavirii. Those tests came up negative.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Another thing I want to call out is your claim about testing. We've had the ability to test for coronavirii for a while now. That's how they were able to identify that Covid-19 is a coronavirus. It's just that in most cases it's not worth running the test because these viruses cause very mild reactions. I mean the most common example of a coronavirus is the cold.

In the case of Covid-19, they tested for the usual culprits. When that turned up nothing they widened their scope and eventually discovered they were dealing with a coronavirus.

Considering the cause behind EVALI was a mystery for so long, there's no reason to think they would not have tested for coronavirii. Those tests came up negative.

Wait, are you not keeping up on the stats with this? Until two days ago, the US hadn’t tested more than about 450 people TOTAL. That’s including everyone repatriated from the cruise ships, medical workers, etc. We sent out a bunch of faulty test kits and then said “only the CDC can test for it” and dragged our feet for weeks. Seriously? There’s like 100 different YouTube channels giving the stats on this daily, you gotta keep up. It’s a travesty how little the US has done to even begin to care about this.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Another thing I want to call out is your claim about testing. We've had the ability to test for coronavirii for a while now. That's how they were able to identify that Covid-19 is a coronavirus. It's just that in most cases it's not worth running the test because these viruses cause very mild reactions. I mean the most common example of a coronavirus is the cold.

In the case of Covid-19, they tested for the usual culprits. When that turned up nothing they widened their scope and eventually discovered they were dealing with a coronavirus.

Considering the cause behind EVALI was a mystery for so long, there's no reason to think they would not have tested for coronavirii. Those tests came up negative.

I mean, seriously, ER doc is having to “plead to test covid cases” because the US doesn’t have its Ish together:

a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Completely ignoring the fact that your source is only suggesting vaping registered deaths, not cases of EVALI, you're arguing that this strain of coronavirus has gone unidentified/survived for at least 10 years, and in that interim it has only affected a handful of people, all of whom vaped, and didn't pass it on to others.

You're also arguing that this originated in China, due to their production of vaping products (it should be noted that EVALI is tied to black market products) and yet they don't have any cases of EVALI.

The only support you have for your argument are the common symptoms you posted in the OP. Symptoms that are common with pretty much every other respiratory illness/infection.

It should also be noted that the diagnostic criteria for EVALI specifies that it can't be accounted for by any kind of respiratory illness. That alone kind of destroys your theory.

No.
Kids mixing the juice with other stuff (catch my drift)
Or , buying "wax" on the street corner.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Completely ignoring the fact that your source is only suggesting vaping registered deaths, not cases of EVALI, you're arguing that this strain of coronavirus has gone unidentified/survived for at least 10 years, and in that interim it has only affected a handful of people, all of whom vaped, and didn't pass it on to others.

You're also arguing that this originated in China, due to their production of vaping products (it should be noted that EVALI is tied to black market products) and yet they don't have any cases of EVALI.

The only support you have for your argument are the common symptoms you posted in the OP. Symptoms that are common with pretty much every other respiratory illness/infection.

It should also be noted that the diagnostic criteria for EVALI specifies that it can't be accounted for by any kind of respiratory illness. That alone kind of destroys your theory.

No, I’m suggesting that the same chemicals have been used in vape pens from China for 10+ years, and the only difference was that it preceded a huge outbreak of respiratory illness. Lung damage due to vaping is nothing new, in fact the same chemicals caused “popcorn lung” in people who worked in microwave popcorn factories for decades. The correlation between the lung damage in those vape-death cases is not evidence of causation. Again, for the tenth time, lung damage due to the chemicals could be a key factor to the virus taking hold in them, and any community-spread cases among non-vape users or those who didn’t require hospitalization would be written off to “seasonal cold and flu”

Lastly, evali WAS a respiratory illness, but not one that had a known cause. Kind of destroys your rebuttal.

a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Yes, it's cause was unknown. Meaning it wasn't a coronavirus, as that is a family of virii that we have known how to test for a while.

originally posted by: underwerks
Nope. For one thing, despite what the current administration thinks it wasn’t electronic cigarettes that were making people sick.

It was people who were using Vitamin E oil to thicken bootleg cannabis cartridges. Because runny oil shows it’s been stepped on (diluted).

Exactly... but don't let the truth get in the way.

Politicians down here now are going to restrict imports of nicotine based juices, because... vaping is a deadly thing.

It causes the corona virus, don't you know.

originally posted by: incoserv
Frankly, I've said all along - since the vaping thing started - that anybody stupid enough to inhale the vapor from essentially untested chemical compounds of indeterminate origin probably needed to be removed from the gene pool, anyway. It astounds me that people would be surprised that it's an unhealthy practice. I thought that was self-evident all along.

I'll take an occasional puff on my pipe with natural tobacco over that stuff any day!

That's nice dear.

Would you like a crumpet with your tea? Did you hear about Mavis? Oh dear, she's really gone and done it now. Marvin will be so angry when he finds out. I'd best not say any more, no one likes a gossip.

Nicotine and humidity are being suggested as a useful weapon AGAINST CV.
Vaping incorporates both.

I thought and mentioned the exact same thing.
It was actually Covid-19 but they misdiagnosed it...
I wish I had some proof...
Get an autopsy or something...
Compare some chest x rays and blood work results.
I am almost sure of it, because all of the sudden they appeared, now they disappeared...

a reply to: Centsay

Some patients are still living. They could be tested for antibodies...would be interesting, although not conclusive.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

EVALI and COVID-19 patients are both known to sometimes develop fibrosis in the lungs. It's better diagnosed via CT scan than X-ray...but either one serves as a visual diagnostic tool.

Both EVAALI and COVID-19 present with similar clinical and lab features...including fever.