Was the “vaping death” epidemic actually round 1 of Covid-19 in the US?

Given the lack of testing for covid-19 in the past two months in the US even after the virus was identified, and given the understanding that the virus was most certainly circulating among the population in China for a while before it was identified, I bring to your attention these two articles:

Vox article from Oct 2019 about vaping deaths and symptoms, source of most vaping products

Patients who have come down with the mystery lung injury started to experience symptoms anywhere from a few days to several weeks after using e-cigarettes. So far, the patients have a few things in common, according to the CDC. They suffered from respiratory symptoms, including coughing, shortness of breath, chest pain, and difficulty breathing. Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, fatigue, abdominal pain, fever, and weight loss were also common symptoms

And now this article on the effects of covid on China’s huge vaping industry, and how little was done/is being done to keep the liquids in vape cartridges uninfected by workers:

Covid outbreak effects on Chinese vape industry

Companies have been ordered to give out at least two masks a day to employees, as well as to conduct temperature checks. However, there is still a wide gap between reality and the regulations, which prevents many employees from going to work. "We started today, but the boss only gave us one mask when we all know he is supposed to give out two," said a 52-year old woman employee at one of the Shenzhen factories. [...] About 1,000 factories in China produce 90 percent of the world's e-cigarettes and vaping devices. If these factories remain closed and cannot resume regular operations, there could be a significant delay in the shipment of vaping supplies, if not a total outage. […]. Moreover, Chinese manufacturers produce almost all cannabis vaporizers, cartridges, and batteries. With the timing of the outbreak, the Coronavirus could significantly affect the vape and cannabis industry in the U.S., if supply from China fails.

Could this virus have been spreading far earlier in China than anyone realized, and consequently in the US and around the world as well, given that the R0 is only about 2.6 and it might have been mistaken for the regular cold or flu before Wuhan sounded the alarm? A couple workers cough in the vape juice factory, send out that juice around the world, people inhale it straight into their lungs at sub-burning temps, add in some sketchy additives that already harm lung tissue making it more vulnerable to infection........???? Thoughts?

Nope. For one thing, despite what the current administration thinks it wasn’t electronic cigarettes that were making people sick.

It was people who were using Vitamin E oil to thicken bootleg cannabis cartridges. Because runny oil shows it’s been stepped on (diluted).

OP theory sounds like every tobacco company wet dream.

originally posted by: underwerks
Nope. For one thing, despite what the current administration thinks it wasn’t electronic cigarettes that were making people sick.

It was people who were using Vitamin E oil to thicken bootleg cannabis cartridges. Because runny oil shows it’s been stepped on (diluted).

If you read the article or any other literature on the vaping deaths, there wasn’t anything that linked them all, even THC cartridges or vitamin e.

a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Short answer is no. It was happening all over the country while Corona is not found in many areas this was happening in.

originally posted by: SoNotYabiz

originally posted by: underwerks
Nope. For one thing, despite what the current administration thinks it wasn’t electronic cigarettes that were making people sick.

It was people who were using Vitamin E oil to thicken bootleg cannabis cartridges. Because runny oil shows it’s been stepped on (diluted).

If you read the article or any other literature on the vaping deaths, there wasn’t anything that linked them all, even THC cartridges or vitamin e.

The link is that anything and everything could be found in them. There is no regulation and no one is checking them to make sure they are consumer friendly. Your article was also posted early on before the Vitamin E link was found.

Vitamin E acetate is strongly linked to the EVALI outbreak. Vitamin E acetate has been found in product samples tested by FDA and state laboratories and in patient lung fluid samples tested by CDC from geographically diverse states. Vitamin E acetate has not been found in the lung fluid of people that do not have EVALI.

Evidence is not sufficient to rule out the contribution of other chemicals of concern, including chemicals in either THC or non-THC products, in some of the reported EVALI cases.

www.cdc.gov...

Vitamin E is the big one, but there are likely other chemicals also involved.

a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Vitamin E acetate is strongly linked to the EVALI outbreak. Vitamin E acetate has been found in product samples tested by FDA and state laboratories and in patient lung fluid samples tested by CDC from geographically diverse states. Vitamin E acetate has not been found in the lung fluid of people that do not have EVALI.

Source

According to the CDC there is a strong link between those that suffered from the vaping-related lung injuries (note: Not illness) and Vitamin E acetate. Furthermore, I believe these deaths were primarily US-centric. So if what we're currently experiencing is Wave 2, why did no other countries experience the effects from the first wave, including China?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Short answer is no. It was happening all over the country while Corona is not found in many areas this was happening in.

Actually, there is a strong correlation between the vape outbreak and where the **tested and reported** cases of covid in the US are right now:
www.cdc.gov... vere-lung-disease.html

And don’t forget that we literally JUST started any significant testing for covid in the US. Give it a second, we’re gonna be reporting hundreds if not thousands of cases in the next few weeks as we finally start testing more people. (That’s not my opinion, it’s the CDC’s and every other medical professional’s opinion)

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I beat you!

a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Completely 100% false. There was a lot of EVALI where I live, zero Covid. The patients would have been infected and spreading that infection to other workers/patients.

It's a cool idea, it just isn't right.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: SoNotYabiz

originally posted by: underwerks
Nope. For one thing, despite what the current administration thinks it wasn’t electronic cigarettes that were making people sick.

It was people who were using Vitamin E oil to thicken bootleg cannabis cartridges. Because runny oil shows it’s been stepped on (diluted).

If you read the article or any other literature on the vaping deaths, there wasn’t anything that linked them all, even THC cartridges or vitamin e.

The link is that anything and everything could be found in them. There is no regulation and no one is checking them to make sure they are consumer friendly. Your article was also posted early on before the Vitamin E link was found.

Vitamin E acetate is strongly linked to the EVALI outbreak. Vitamin E acetate has been found in product samples tested by FDA and state laboratories and in patient lung fluid samples tested by CDC from geographically diverse states. Vitamin E acetate has not been found in the lung fluid of people that do not have EVALI.

Evidence is not sufficient to rule out the contribution of other chemicals of concern, including chemicals in either THC or non-THC products, in some of the reported EVALI cases.

www.cdc.gov...

Vitamin E is the big one, but there are likely other chemicals also involved.

So your argument is that China just suddenly started putting “anything and everything” (even vitamin e alone) in these cartridges over the few months before the outbreak? Vaping has been huge and rising every day for the last 10+ years. China didn’t just start thinking “huh, cheaper ingredients make us more money” last year. Neither did the vaping industry have a sudden boom in September of last year. Something more significant than “most vape factories decided to get greedy and cheap” happened. That’s why it was an “epidemic”, because something significant changed very quickly.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Completely 100% false. There was a lot of EVALI where I live, zero Covid. The patients would have been infected and spreading that infection to other workers/patients.

It's a cool idea, it just isn't right.

.......you sure about that? How could you even know the difference between cold and flu season without any testing being done in your community?

Frankly, I've said all along - since the vaping thing started - that anybody stupid enough to inhale the vapor from essentially untested chemical compounds of indeterminate origin probably needed to be removed from the gene pool, anyway. It astounds me that people would be surprised that it's an unhealthy practice. I thought that was self-evident all along.

I'll take an occasional puff on my pipe with natural tobacco over that stuff any day!

a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Another key thing you're ignoring is that in EVALI cases there is actual damage to the lung. As far as I'm aware, this is not the case with Covid-19.

Just because obvious symptoms may be similar does not mean that these two things are related.

originally posted by: SoNotYabiz

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Completely 100% false. There was a lot of EVALI where I live, zero Covid. The patients would have been infected and spreading that infection to other workers/patients.

It's a cool idea, it just isn't right.

.......you sure about that? How could you even know the difference between cold and flu season without any testing being done in your community?

I am a healthcare professional and work in the biggest hospital in my state. You seem hellbent on this being true despite all the evidence being against you. You are welcome to your thoughts, the link to vitamin E and chemicals and EVALI is already proven and sourced. Your choice to use a story before the link was made and then claim we have never found any links is disingenuous. Believe what you like.

Well there you go. People should just stick with the good ole fashioned cancer-sticks instead. After all, lung cancer is way better than flu-like symptoms.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: SoNotYabiz

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Completely 100% false. There was a lot of EVALI where I live, zero Covid. The patients would have been infected and spreading that infection to other workers/patients.

It's a cool idea, it just isn't right.

.......you sure about that? How could you even know the difference between cold and flu season without any testing being done in your community?

I am a healthcare professional and work in the biggest hospital in my state. You seem hellbent on this being true despite all the evidence being against you. You are welcome to your thoughts, the link to vitamin E and chemicals and EVALI is already proven and sourced. Your choice to use a story before the link was made and then claim we have never found any links is disingenuous. Believe what you like.

Cool cool cool, you didn’t address my logical argument about those chemicals being present in vape cartridges previous to the evali outbreak and the fact that there has been almost zero testing for covid before literally a week or so ago, but right on, you work near the medical industry, so you must be right. Cool. Nice talking with you!

originally posted by: BoxerBrawler
Well there you go. People should just stick with the good ole fashioned cancer-sticks instead. After all, lung cancer is way better than flu-like symptoms.

Did anyone suggest smoking cigarettes is healthier or in any way a good idea? Straw man BS, bro. I’m just floating a theory about something that didn’t seem to have a good explanation previous to now. Jees, have a coke and smile.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: SoNotYabiz

Another key thing you're ignoring is that in EVALI cases there is actual damage to the lung. As far as I'm aware, this is not the case with Covid-19.

Just because obvious symptoms may be similar does not mean that these two things are related.

This is actually what I was referring to in my OP, that the damage done to the lungs from the chemicals in vape products might weaken the lungs to being more susceptible to a virus as virulent as covid. Cigarette smokers seem to be more prone to serious cases as well, but the fact that they’re burned might prevent a spread on the cigarettes themselves (though community spread in China would be relatively the same as with vape-users)

originally posted by: SoNotYabiz

originally posted by: BoxerBrawler
Well there you go. People should just stick with the good ole fashioned cancer-sticks instead. After all, lung cancer is way better than flu-like symptoms.

Did anyone suggest smoking cigarettes is healthier or in any way a good idea? Straw man BS, bro. I’m just floating a theory about something that didn’t seem to have a good explanation previous to now. Jees, have a coke and smile.

Yup. I'm just being a prick yeah, that's my bad.