Stock Market Down. How is This a Good Thing?

Excellent post sir!

I feel like something else is going on behind the scenes that we are not privy to. When SARS broke out, or Ebola broke out, or we had a bad flu season originating from China, we didn't see nearly this type of market drop. There were indicators before this breakout of the bond market inverting, which is an indicator of recessions or corrections, and there were several posts on ATS prior to the COVID outbreak that saw it leading up, as though investors were aware of something before this happened. It could just be convenient timing, that the market needed a correction and since it is based on fear vs confidence, the COVID may have just been a coincidental tipping point. But my spidey-sense says otherwise...

The reason I am not really bothered by this is that our economy is still strong enough to weather this, and for those of us with 401Ks and stocks, this is a good thing. The same share of stock that part of my paycheck buys with money I never see is going to be able to buy more shares of stock. When those stocks rebound, I will own more shares than I would have without the drop and will be just a little wealthier as a result. For the millions of people in the same boat, holding on for the ride could benefit everyone significantly.

Diversifying our investments in rare earth minerals is paramount no matter how you cut it. Our symbiotic relationships with other countries isn't going to change anytime soon, but we have to ensure that it doesn't become parasitic either. Investing in rare earth mining and refinement would benefit not only our country, but many others, and would provide a "backup plan" of sorts where the wealth shifts between countries rather than vaporizing like we've seen with China and COVID. I'd love to see an off-world mining operation to go after asteroids that are rich in the same materials and more abundant than anything we can find here on earth, and if done right, would circumvent much of the pollution if we set up shop in space where said pollution would not impact us. (there's always some tradeoff of course)

Personally, I think it's no coincidence that this virus popped up in the one location where China has a level 4 bio lab. I also think it's no coincidence that China let it blow up a bit before responding to it, and silenced the people trying to blow the whistle. It seems weird to me that this happened so soon after a trade deal was signed and went into effect. They had to know that we would put restrictions on travel, trade, manufacturing, etc. if something like this happened, and perhaps that's what they wanted if they felt they were getting the shaft on the trade deals. Speaking from the tin foil on that one, but the simplest explanation is usually the most accurate.

S&F OP.

~Namaste

originally posted by: butcherguy
It is a good thing for the super rich that can afford to buy the stocks in solid companies when this bottoms out.

Warren Buffett already said it.

Absolutely wrong! This is an opportunity for everyone. Skip on buying something you don't need for a few weeks and buy some stock instead. Wait for the market to improve (it will) and take the age old advice - buy low, sell high.

Don't bash the rich. Become the rich!

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

originally posted by: butcherguy
It is a good thing for the super rich that can afford to buy the stocks in solid companies when this bottoms out.

Warren Buffett already said it.

Absolutely wrong! This is an opportunity for everyone. Skip on buying something you don't need for a few weeks and buy some stock instead. Wait for the market to improve (it will) and take the age old advice - buy low, sell high.

Don't bash the rich. Become the rich!

You are correct of course, and I wasn't really bashing Buffett, because what he said makes absolute sense.
But if this is being orchestrated by a Soros type, I don't like that.

a reply to: TheRedneck

As I understand it the biggest problem with mining rare earth minerals environmental problems and cost. We can always do it safer and cleaner. China has adopted the throwaway culture, it loves it. Having just checked China's imports I noticed machines and raw materials it mainly imports.

Ya know? I always figured the real nations in charge have well defined construction and manufacturing capabilities. Raw resources can always be got but turning them into buildings, components and items is the real specialist part... This most definitely applies to military application too. Point being China is a producer and it's the rest of the world that enabled it to be the workshop of the world. It relies on us more when it comes to it though. It's why I agree with Trump on fighting intellectual property theft because the Chinese government are far from stupid.

One can have hope for the future but nobody wants to live near contaminated mines, nor work in them usually but I reckon we can tackle that with automation and heavy research into extraction technology. The world can do fine without China, it needs it. I wholeheartedly agree with people who say enough is enough with desecrating the planet. But it's the throwaway culture that needs tackling within industry and society that's an issue.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I know exactly where you're coming from but you're also talking to the full world (pretty much) right now. China is going to the moon and you can buy yourself a ride in space if you sell a kid or something maybe? There'll be buyers all over the world on the dark web.

Point being we're not going the isolation route any time soon. Any of us. I mean knowledge and individualism tend to drive us together anyways.

The only way isolationism would work is if you took the keys to a nation and handed them to the machines and we all know what happens then!

It could be a good thing but too early to tell. IF we get to a state of real emergency and large scale shortages it will give President Trump a lot more ammunition in creating some jobs and making some of our industry stronger by showing the world that China isn't the only country that can produce cheap goods and look what happens when you heavily rely on them.

This will be bad short term for the market but I think it will present some very good opportunities for manufacturing and industry. Just from the way the past 10 years have gone I do not think any other candidates besides Trump will be able to recover the economy and actually make it grow because of this "scare'.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Is it contained?

A heck of a lot better than it is in Wuhan.

Our biggest concern IMO is blind panic, not the disease itself. I'm not hearing about deaths in the US, but I am hearing about people being double-tested and released from quarantine.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: DBCowboy

Is it contained?

A heck of a lot better than it is in Wuhan.

Our biggest concern IMO is blind panic, not the disease itself. I'm not hearing about deaths in the US, but I am hearing about people being double-tested and released from quarantine.

TheRedneck

You can sense the panic just by reading threads on ATS. I won't watch TV news so no telling how bad they're making things out to be.

Can't wait for Nancy P and company to start going after Trump again. Maybe all this flue hype will settle down.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Speaking of rare earth metals and ores, my understanding is that North Korea has much more than China in this area.
Rare Earth Metals in North Korea and Rare Earth Metals in North Korea II

President Trump has tried to normalize relations with NK but has been stymied just about at every turn by our Senate and House and Main Stream Media. With normal relations with NK, we could set up a mining community with NK's permission and never have to worry about rare earth minerals ever again. Other companies could be formed in the NK country to produce semiconductors and mine iron ore, also.

I think the reason for this is that about two thirds of the Senate and House have their collective heads up China's ass and can't pull them out. I also believe that the CoVid 19 virus is going to be a Chinese laxative and the terrible smell you will soon notice in D.C. will be Chinese feces...

a reply to: SonOfTheLawOfOne

I think China was the trigger pulled on an already loaded gun. There is concern right now in the market over several things: the fact that Bernie Sanders is emerging as the Democratic leader, the realization of our high dependence on China (we weren't so dependent on Africa when Ebola came out), and admittedly a concern that Trump might not be able to handle this emergency. I watched his address on it intently, even though I am a Trump supporter, because I myself had some concerns (that he mostly allayed). His expertise on the economy was pretty much a given; on handling a medical situation, not so much.

The same concerns that we are willing to put out there, those "conspiracy theories" that others giggle at behind our backs, are also in their minds as well... they just keep them to themselves. But they know how dirty politics can be and what lengths those in power will go to in order to maintain their power, and that could implement a complete change in our economic direction with Sanders at the helm.

Don't think that isn't affecting the market... it definitely is! But the trigger that pushed people over the edge was China and the corona virus.

TheRedneck

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti


DING, DING We have a winner!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a reply to: NightFlight

Geologically, North Korea (and to some extent South Korea) are part of China. Mineral deposits know no man-made boundaries.

There are sources in Africa, though, and a few actually in the US. They may not have the reserve capacity that China has, but they should be sufficient, if properly utilized, to get us over any hump in supply and demand. China's resources are not lost, remember... just delayed. Corona virii do not infect rare earth minerals.

TheRedneck

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

One thing that is bothering me and which is probably making the downturn worse than it need be is that Pelosi and Schumer are already going after Trump politically about his handling of the situation thus far. The corona virus situation does not need to calm down for the attacks to resume; they never stopped.

There is even a thread on here about Trump dismantling the CDC... a rumor which never happened. But people still believe it...

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I love most of your topics you create.

We will persevere, we’re just at the start of some negative stuff that will effect mankind, markets may be over reacting a little due to the uncertainty... We will get thru this, I know we will see innovation, during this we are known for it during negative times. 👍

I so agree with you...we lost tens of thousand of soldiers fighting communism and now we're in bed with them. Lets the cards fall as they may... a reply to: peskyhumans

a reply to: TheRedneck

China's business practices have been a splinter in the world economy for quite a long time, and now the infection is getting serious... it has to be lanced.

Right. Let's talk about this stock market without talking about the stock market's addiction to QE. Furthermore, let's point fingers and blame the very people that made cheap labor happening so that our oh-so benevolent corporations like Apple (and their shareholders) literally took off to the stars! That's excellent mud-pit material, WTF is happening?

When you're blowing an economy to pieces for walking all over you with your own bootsteps, it might be wise to invite an open debate regarding the way we walk through life. Just saying, this is an international board and all that. Ya know.
Heal yourself, physician?

Given the lack of any material to wrap my head around your perspective, we could also talk about this new low of biological warfare being a good thing in the long run once this system of "Planned Obsolescence" comes crashing down.

“The American system is the most ingenious system of control in world history. With a country so rich in natural resources, talent, and labor power the system can afford to distribute just enough wealth to just enough people to limit discontent to a troublesome minority. It is a country so powerful, so big, so pleasing to so many of its citizens that it can afford to give freedom of dissent to the small number who are not pleased. There is no system of control with more openings, apertures, leeways, flexibilities, rewards for the chosen, winning tickets in lotteries. There is none that disperses its controls more complexly through the voting system, the work situation, the church, the family, the school, the mass media--none more successful in mollifying opposition with reforms, isolating people from one another, creating patriotic loyalty.”

Howard Zinn

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: TheRedneck
Howard Zinn

Howard Zinn isn't someone I'd be quoting. He sure sounds a lot like people that hate America...

Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States has sold more than 2.5 million copies. It is pushed by Hollywood celebrities, defended by university professors who know better, and assigned in high school and college classrooms to teach students that American history is nothing more than a litany of oppression, slavery, and exploitation.

Howard Zinn
Sounds like one of those that got us in the political mess we're in today.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
China has the bulk of the planetary deposits of these we know of.

China has the bulk of the extraction and production, not the actual elements as they aren't that rare.

Rare earth elements are sometimes described as the “vitamins of chemistry,” as small doses produce powerful salutary effects. A sprinkle of cerium here and a pinch of neodymium there makes TV screens brighter, batteries last longer, and magnets stronger. If China suddenly shut off access to these materials, it would be like rewinding the tech industry back a few decades. And no one wants to ditch their iPhone and go back to a BlackBerry.

Experts in the field, though, are much less concerned about such a chilling scenario. They say that while a restriction on rare earth exports would have some immediate adverse effects, the US and the rest of the world would adapt in the long run. “If China really cuts off supply entirely then there are short term problems,” Tim Worstall, a former rare earth trader and commodities blogger tells The Verge. “But they’re solvable.”

Far from being an ace in the hole, it turns out rare earths are more of a busted flush.

The reasons for this are numerous, and span geography, chemistry, and history. But the most important factor is also the simplest to explain: rare earths just aren’t that rare.

Essential vitamins and alternative healthcare aids are all made in China, too ... or were.

My view is it's a good thing to diversify and bring back local manufacturing bases... but it will be horrible for the folks who need meds to actually live as one cannot raise a factory and supply lines overnight. Well, we haven't since WWII anyway.

I'm not so worried about the virus , but I am worried about desperate people.

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Some would say he was a real patriot tho. Fascinating, innit?

Sounds like one of those that got us in the political mess we're in today.

Why blame intellectuals when you could blame Rap Music instead?