The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by Produkt
I lost my job once ... my christian boss and I got into an argument, sort of. More like a heated debate over why I didn't believe in god. Two day's later, she fire's me. Never did anything wrong to be fired. No reason given. She wasn't too nice to me for the two day's it took her to work up the balls to fire me. The only reason I can think of for getting fired was because I openly argued why I didn't believe in god. As I said, I never did anything wrong prior to that.

Dunno how much beliefs come into play here. I can say that for me arguing with my boss about nearly anything can get me fired where I work. It could've been because of beliefs, but smells too much like a lawsuit for that to happen. Unless of course you were working at a church.

Nope, regular 9-5 job. Worked in the photolithography area. Either way, you can not fire someone over a difference in religous belief's. I'd like to see the law on that. I should have sued, and really I had every right too because that is discrimination, but I chose not too for whatever reason at the time. It was one of my first job's back then.

Originally posted by Produkt
Nope, regular 9-5 job. Worked in the photolithography area.

Sounds like a cool job.

Originally posted by Produkt
Either way, you can not fire someone over a difference in religous belief's. I'd like to see the law on that. I should have sued, and really I had every right too because that is discrimination, but I chose not too for whatever reason at the time. It was one of my first job's back then.

There's a list of reasons why an employer can legally fire someone and I don't believe religion is one of them. In other words, if the reason was due to religion, then the boss was acting on her own. No conspiracy here.

[edit on 21-2-2006 by saint4God]

Produkt, no offense, but if you were as rude to him as you are to some people here, I can't blame him. I don't think the problem arised over theological issues, more out of courtesy. Anyway, sorry about it, hope you have better experiences with others.

I'm pretty sure that Anti-Christian feelings have existed ever since Christ was born. But don't worry, don't you think Jesus was ridiculed and hated too?

He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. (Isa 53:3)

I do, I myself have no issues over violence and antichristian feelings, I *DO* get slightly irritated when somebody comes and say something to the like "your following what a bunch of goatherders gave their sheep 4000 years ago !!!!!1" you know the line.

anti-christ ? or anti-christian church ? thats a hell of a difference between the earth and the sky....

christ is rumored to have used weed to cure people... which i would gladly support

BUT!

the church is proven to have killed many free-thinkers who were mainly astronomers and or astrologists... and paedophilia spread because of the church (including gay paedophilia) who knows how many people were killed just because the archbishop's or popes said they're non belivers... my nation survived many of these raids luckily the art of war was never the strong side of the roman-catholic church... oh but stacking gold !!! now that was their prime goal at all times...

belive what you want to belive but never the church as in the vatican organisation... they were, are, and will be criminals above the law

www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk...

"His body was concealed and only placed in a fine tomb in the church in 1737 by the civil authorities against the wishes of many in the Church. On 31 October 1992, 350 years after Galileo's death, Pope John Paul II gave an address on behalf of the Catholic Church in which he admitted that errors had been made by the theological advisors in the case of Galileo. He declared the Galileo case closed, but he did not admit that the Church was wrong to convict Galileo on a charge of heresy because of his belief that the Earth rotates round the sun." ... Copernicus, kepler, bruno, brahe they were threatened for their life by the church for their scientifical knowledge

f**k the church

[edit on 22-2-2006 by MoT]

why i say this which is above ?(especially the last 3 words) because the church here in the middle of europe has done so much damage(to the people) and stole so much property that its not even respectable any more as an organisation... they wanted to and still do to slow down the "cultural evolution" e.g. who was the last one to accept emancipation,abortions, ? the vatican... theres dozens of issues that the whole society has accepted and the church has done so much later

how ridiculous is that any religious organisation has political powers ?

i'm not going to go anywhere near the gay issue and the church...

racism and slavemastery were proven many times

but again i repeat BELIEF and dreams is something noone can take from us so do both freely... but please, you cannot bash me for what the church has done in the past

John 15:20:

Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

If Christ was persecuted, we should not only expect to be persecuted, we should be persecuted if we are serving Him by those who do not. Why is this? Christ did not preach easy lessons. He convicted people of their sin. He didn't tell them, "Hey, you know, you guys are alright!"

If your wrongs are exposed to your mind, especially if you have been in denial believing you're a good person, you will react one of two ways. You will be convicted and change it, or you will lash out in anger at the one who forced you to address this behavior. We see both happening to Christ, and we see both happening with preachers today. While parishioners tend not to kill the pastor because he exposed their wrongs, many do get upset and leave the church, looking for one that gives a feel good message of, "You're great just the way you are. Keep on keepin' on." Then you have those who are changed in Christ and reflect His glory by ever changing themselves to be more like Him.

If you are delivering God's message properly, as He commissioned us to do, you will face anger. That's a good thing; anger means you're getting through. Better an angry crowd than an uncaring crowd.

Why are people so upset with Christians "forcing" their religion on everyone? Because God designed us to recognize truth, and Christ's message and salvation is truth. Just by sharing Christianity in an anointed way, you are exposing this truth, and the foolishness of the person who hadn't believed before, to the people. As I said, God designed us to recognize this Truth. The reaction of this conviction is either coming to know Christ, or lashing out and trying to silence the one who has exposed you for who you are, or, in this case, are not.

Originally posted by junglejake
If Christ was persecuted, we should not only expect to be persecuted, we should be persecuted if we are serving Him by those who do not.

then why kick up such a fuss for 90+ pages? if this is the way it's meant to be, then why are christians trying to force the issue of an anti-christian conspiracy. the problem is, that it started out on here as though the anti-christian conspiracy was a bad thing. yet, now it seems to have become something that was always written on the wall, and something that 'had' to happen. and the fact that it 'had' to happen is somehow 'proof' to you that everything you believe in is real, as the bible it states you will also be persecuted to some extent.

the only problem with crucifying jesus is that it made him a martyr. sure he had some following before, but without that death paul never had anything to play on. to this day you are still using the fact that he was persecuted and executed by saying 'it was meant to happen', thus somehow to you this is proof that everything you believe in is right.

during the christian crusades, i can't off by heart remember the pope's name, but he said to some effect 'kill them all, god will know his own people'. not a bad speach for a ''POPE''. that wouldn't be a bad speach for any army general. so if you feel like ''YOU HAVE'' been personally persecuted, think again. christ was by the romans. cathars and others were slaughtered because they didn't believe what someone else believed. that's persecution. you cannot for a second say that christian are persecuted today, especially not to the extent of which other religions have been in the passed.

think about the six million jews slaughtered in the second world war... count yourselves lucky? no, of course you don't. you whine about BS persecution on your own behalf, always thinking of yourselves, and NOT others. it's an absolute joke.

If your wrongs are exposed to your mind, especially if you have been in denial believing you're a good person, you will react one of two ways. You will be convicted and change it, or you will lash out in anger at the one who forced you to address this behavior.

really? there's only two ways to ever handle a situation, finding out you're a sinner? either you get angry like all atheist do or you become a good loving law abiding christian. what a load of claptrap. why do you bother trying to teach such BS.

i feel i'm a good person, i'm not entirely sure if i'm sinning or if i sinned yesterday, or how many sins i've done. but i don't regret any of them, and i've not felt the need to go an confess them. that's what i think is so great about being a PERSON.

i've spoken before about 'fear', and the fact that many christians seem to 'fear' much about the 'real world' and the reality that we live in. they cover up this fear and ignore this fear by having faith in god, jesus and the good book. however, if you weren't 'fearful' of the consiquences of you sinning or making a mistake, then why would you go and confess them? obviously you don't realise this. to you it's just a normal confession, and then all will be good again. but the reason behind a confession is guilt and the fear of the repercussions of what might happen if you don't let that out.

religions were created on the basis of people's fears. the very first religions and oldest ones, used natural elements as their gods and spirits. hence, the sun god from egyptian beliefs, thor god of thunder, atlas, supposedly holding the world on his shoulder, and other tribes who pray and have rituals to their animal gods, otherwise they believe they will have a bad hunt and go hungry, starve and perhaps even die. all coming back to the 'natural element'. you wouldn't dare anger thor, as he may just strike you with lightening. you wouldn't want to anger atlas because he could shake the earth and create an earthquake that would wipe out your entire family. as for the animal spirits and praying to them for a good hunt. that's fear and also supistition. if they don't pray they are supistitious to the fact that they might anger those animal spirits and come back with no food, and this then makes them fear these spirits, as they need to stay on their good side, to insure good hunting and eating.

fear has long been a part played in all religion. it always has been and always will be. the biggest in christianity perhaps being 'believe in me or you'll go to hell'. that plays on people's fear of death. the fact that christianity offers eternal life, is just another mere ploy to play on people's fear of death, as some people can't wake up to the fact that they'll only live for a certain number of years...and that's it. some people cannot comprehend this and to avoid it, prefer to believe in eternal life...but it doesn't still mean they're not fearful, because now they fear their god, because if they didn't...they'd then go to hell.

Why are people so upset with Christians "forcing" their religion on everyone? Because God designed us to recognize truth, and Christ's message and salvation is truth. Just by sharing Christianity in an anointed way, you are exposing this truth, and the foolishness of the person who hadn't believed before, to the people. As I said, God designed us to recognize this Truth. The reaction of this conviction is either coming to know Christ, or lashing out and trying to silence the one who has exposed you for who you are, or, in this case, are not.

another self proclaimed goody goody christian, who feels he can judge others who don't believe, because he's better than us. why are you trying to force your beliefs on atheists, why not muslims, buddists, jews, islamics etc. because they'd think you're full of BS, that's why.

the fact that christianity does have to be forced, and to your own admittence, has and is being forced, means that it has to be 'sold'. a religion that has to be sold? what good is that. any decent product sells itself, but time after time we see christians trying to offer and beg you to buy in to this product of theirs. fact is, if you're got to try this hard to round up some more believers, then it's obviously not that great of a product, and today people see that.

the number of people who class themselves as having no religion in the USA, has double to 14-16% in the passed 10 years, according to the HARI survey. that's some 30 million or more people that christianity has either not yet sunk their teeth in to, or sunk them too far and pushed them away from the church.

but hey, i'm just being an 'angry' atheist right. the only hope of salvation is by christians begging me to go to church or pick up the bible. you know what, i don't want to go to church or pick up the bible, and i don't 'need' to either. that's what is so great about being 'free'. the fact that you can make your own choices, without the fear of some BS religion on your back. that's heaven for me. and personally, eternal life? that sounds a little long. i'd actually hate to live forever, i don't want to live forever. i want my time that's due to me on this planet, and i want that to be it.

Greetings all....

Let me comment on the following.....
=============================
quote: How to Pray:

Dear Lord Jesus,

I know that I am a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I believe that You died for my sins. I want to turn from my sins. I now invite You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as Lord and Savior.

In Jesus' name. Amen.
==================

This is simply the same thing the thief on the cross said next to Jesus....
He said...the same exact thing....let's break it down...

First....he called Jesus Lord....Then He admitted he was a Sinner and deserved his punisment...He FIRST cursed Jesus...and then later on repented (turned from his sin)... The bible also says that confession is made with the mouth. Revelation chapter two speaks of Christ knocking on the door, which is the door to the heart, and asking to come in...Jesus said that He will come in to that person...ONLY upon them opening the door and inviting them in.



Mat 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth. (insults) they both insulted Jesus...

Luk 23:40 But the other (thief) answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

He admitted he was a sinner....and deserved this "due reward" of crucifixtion.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Here...he calls Jesus Lord....

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

here is the verse above that directs confession verbally.


But...does that specific prayer save? well..yes. But there is an even shorter prayer in the bible where Jesus answers...and that was when peter was sinking, just after walking on the water.....LORD SAVE ME....

hope this clarifies things up a bit.

shaunybaby:

think about the six million jews slaughtered in the second world war... count yourselves lucky? no, of course you don't. you whine about BS persecution on your own behalf, always thinking of yourselves, and NOT others. it's an absolute joke.

So once again you are the arbitor of what anyone, in this case a "Christian", can and cannot theorize about. Hmmm. But you are irritated when these "Christians" as you call THEM voice their opinions in your direction. Hypocricy! Hypocricy I say!

You also continue to GENERALIZE to a ridiculous degree, lumping all "Christians" together as if all denominations' and sects' and individuals' beliefs are one and the SINGULAR same. It's just not so. You've either been watching too much Comedy Central or have just been exposed to a narrow section of the "Christian" community.

With all due respect, I'd like to generalize your viewpoint as first YOUR OWN OPINION (your full right of course which I respect) and then by pointing out it is narrow-minded and needlessly judgemental.

I'm still not sure what your agenda is? What is it? "Down with Jesus" or the ever popular "War would end without religion" or something similar? We already know that you think "Christians" whine and have no right to voice opinions that you don't agree with. To throw down the natzi holocaust card as a reason that other religions can't "complain" as you call it---and you single out "Christians"---by the same token pretty much any group of people, you included, should shut up as well eh? And not just religions but even the physically handicapped? After all, there hasn't been a holocaust of the physically challenged...so they should shut up about any "supposed" discrimination...because Jews @ 6 decades ago had it worse?

Do I even need to point out that you are uh...just a bit ANTI-CHRISTIAN yourself? At the simplest, calling "Christians" whiners and also supposing that you are somehow aware of what goes on in the "Christian" brain (as you say..."count yourselves lucky? No, ...") equals a completely bigotted mentality. I don't say it with animosity because at times you are amusing but you are simply a bitterly opinionated bigot. I just don't get why? I'm Catholic myself and I've heard, as an example, Jews make jokes about the Crucifixion, but I don't ASSUME that ALL Jews do that. I haven't been made bitter by the experience. Why are you bitter?

Until a group suffers more than the Jews at the hands of natzis turns up, no "Christian" can "whine". I don't like some of the things you've written about before either, but give me a break. Get over it already. What are you waiting for and are you ever going to get it from an ATS thread?

If you aren't around to let a new or old group know that you've deemed them worthy of "whining", then who will bestow the right? Big Brother? The UN? The New World Order? Hitler's brain?

[edit on 26-2-2006 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]


[edit on 26-2-2006 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
You also continue to GENERALIZE to a ridiculous degree, lumping all "Christians" together as if all denominations' and sects' and individuals' beliefs are one and the SINGULAR same. It's just not so. You've either been watching too much Comedy Central or have just been exposed to a narrow section of the "Christian" community.

no it's because it's absolutly ridiculous to try and pick out individual denominations or sects. i never said anything i say is 'universal' with 'all' christians. i also do not assume that they are all the same as each other. you assume that is what i mean. it's not my fault you have to assume such stupidity, but nevertheless you feel it's neccesary. so for 2nd hand thoughts own state of mind, no i'm not lumping all christians together, or generalizing them. i merely don't feel it's neccesary to have to always say 'however, this of course will not be the same for all christians' etc.

To throw down the natzi holocaust card as a reason that other religions can't "complain" as you call it---and you single out "Christians"---by the same token pretty much any group of people, you included, should shut up as well eh? And not just religions but even the physically handicapped? After all, there hasn't been a holocaust of the physically challenged...so they should shut up about any "supposed" discrimination...because Jews @ 6 decades ago had it worse?

hitler also believed he was doing god's work. not just any god's work. but, the christian god's work. that's the extent of which religion can go to. **for 2nd hand thoughts state of mind** - however, it won't be the same for all christians, as i know all christians are not like hitler, or have thoughts like hitler, or want to do anything that hitler did'. i'm saying that that is what religion can do to people.

Do I even need to point out that you are uh...just a bit ANTI-CHRISTIAN yourself? At the simplest, calling "Christians" whiners and also supposing that you are somehow aware of what goes on in the "Christian" brain (as you say..."count yourselves lucky? No, ...") equals a completely bigotted mentality. I don't say it with animosity because at times you are amusing but you are simply a bitterly opinionated bigot. I just don't get why? I'm Catholic myself and I've heard, as an example, Jews make jokes about the Crucifixion, but I don't ASSUME that ALL Jews do that. I haven't been made bitter by the experience. Why are you bitter?

bitter...when did i say i was bitter. and you accuse me of going on a rant, and here you are telling me i'm just a 'bitterly opinionated bigot'. should i really state this again? i think i better for your own benifit. i never lumped any christian group together, hence i never assumed anything, you just assumed i was talking about 'all' christians. that's not my fault.

i'd say to a certain extent i am anti-christian, but i'm also anti-organized religion. i think it's the worst possible thing to happen to humanity. it's breeding a heard of stupid sheep who cannot for the light of day think for themselves, without looking at the 'good book' to check if it's o.k. it's absolutly pathetic. to be fearful of some non-proving being? that's even more pathetic. i don't fear god, the devil or death. i'm a 'person'. maybe you would like to try being a 'person' one day. i tell you it's great.

Until a group suffers more than the Jews at the hands of natzis turns up, no "Christian" can "whine". I don't like some of the things you've written about before either, but give me a break. Get over it already. What are you waiting for and are you ever going to get it from an ATS thread?

doesn't have to be just christians and jews, i could use the same scenario for kids who live in england or america. whining because they can't get the latest video game, or whining because they can't have 'TWO' cheeseburgers. when kids go starving and when kids in some countries have never watched a tv, let alone had the pleasure of playing video games. the same goes for christians, they can't just be happy with what they've got. they've got to piss and moan and whine about it. ''oh no, everyones anti-christian, the whole world is against us (even though 2 billion people are a part of our religion) the whole world is soooo against us''. that's just pathetic. stop moaning, and for once in your life start loving life. live life, love life.

Shauny: I think I need to point out that what you describe, the outcome of Hitler, is not resultant specifically of Christianity... but any doctrine of theology, or truly any form of extremism.

Extremist politics tends to lead to such horrendous people coming into power. When individuals become so fanatical about their own beliefs, they will push more and more for power to control others. Whether it's a religious zealot or a political zealot...

Hitler:

''Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.''

The bible:

''And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.''

Hitler believed he was doing 'the lords work'. According to the bible, he was.


Sure Hitler wasn't your average christian, he also didn't attend church much. However, he thought himself as a christian, and always believed in Jesus and God.

I was pointing out what lengths people will go to and use religion for their reason and answer for 'why'. You have to be a fool to not see what religion can do to people. You also have to be a fool to deny what religion can do. Hitler is what religion can do to people. Everyday car bombs and suicide bombers, it what religion can do to people. 9/11 or 7/7 (London bombings) is what religion can do to people. These are just the recent events, we're not even counting history.

I'll say this for 2nd hand thoughts piece of mind. Of course this is not universal for all people, in all religions. I'm just pointing out the fact that religion can go to certain lengths, and people can use religion to get to those lengths and some sort of excuse. That's all the bible seems to be...an excuse for doing something. ''In the name of the bible/Jesus/God...(insert phrase for doing something in the nameof here)''. Why in the world can people get away with setting off a bomb, killing 20+ people, and say 'I'm doing Allah's work''. In that same context, Hitler believed he was doing his lord's work...he ended up killing 6 million Jews. Therefore, are we better off today with religion? What would the world be like without it...sure there'd be less hope, people would be facing reality moreso, but would we have things like the holocaust, suicide bombs, christian crusades... doubtful. Atheists aren't your enemy. Religion is.

[edit on 27-2-2006 by shaunybaby]

Shauny, if you think that Religion is the only thing that allows people to rationalize things like that... then you have more serious problems.

People use anything that gives them a sense of authority to rationalize attrocities.

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
Shauny, if you think that Religion is the only thing that allows people to rationalize things like that... then you have more serious problems.

People use anything that gives them a sense of authority to rationalize attrocities.

no i don't think that's the 'only' thing that allows people to rationalize such attrocities. I WAS GIVING AN EXAMPLE OF RELIGION CAN DO.

i'm sure there's not many here that can say they respect islamic extremist's beliefs. therefore, why is it such an attrocity for me to not respect christian's beliefs. there are examples through history of christianity being on par with islamic extremists. people using the good word of the bible for bad, crusades, hitler, in particular one account of a christian shooting an abortion doctor as he believed the good book entitled him to.

as i've said before 'THIS WON'T BE UNIVERSAL FOR EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN, AS EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN IS NOT LIKE HITLER OR A MURDERER'. however, you can see why people cannot respect christianity when you have people like that from history and today in your parish. televangelists are perhaps a modern day attrocity for christianity.

and you want me to respect your religion? what is there even to respect?

if an olympic athelete is caught and tested positive for drugs, he not only shames himself, but he shames his family, his friends and his country...something like that washes through all of the levels. the same if someone belonging to the christian faith willingly shoots another man because he believes the bible entitles him to do that, takes on the same effect. people know that not all those countrymen take drugs, but to know that one does, stains the flag nonetheless. the same as one person in christianity, or a specific group (televagelists), which has exactly the same effect.

i suggest if you want people to respect your religion, then you don't be a part of something so corrupt. christianity can hardly even be called a religion today...it's a business. it's a business like any other that prays on the weak. it wants you money, in return for salvation. sounds like scientology...they also want your money. i wouldn't for one second respect any person who counts themselves as a part of scientology, it's absurd. people are so unhappy today that they just feel the compulsion to 'buy in' to something. whether that's christianity, scientology, or just a certain group so they can 'belong', it comes back to the point of buying in to something. oh oh oh tom cruise is a scientologist...now i want to be one. wow christianity is becoming cool again, let me pledge $50 to your church to i can be saved. oh oh oh look what's in this magazine, this celebrity weighs on 4 stone 8lbs...quick i have to diet!!

I understand what you are saying, Shauny... and kindly don't lump me with other Christians if you would. My denomnation is way off to the side of things (Gnosticism, look it up in Wikipedia for some extensive results).

What I *AM* saying is that you shouldn't be railing against Christians. You should rail against extremism... extremist thought and behavior causes the suffering of others.

Extremist Christianity is a problem just like Extremist Islam is... just like Extremist political movements are like the extremist Green or Extremist Right. When people lose touch with reality, they are no longer capable of determining what are good courses of action to take. Blinded by their own ideologies they define anything that passes their zealotry's litmus test as the preferable course of action.

shaunybaby

i'd say to a certain extent i am anti-christian, but i'm also anti-organized religion. i think it's the worst possible thing to happen to humanity. it's breeding a heard of stupid sheep who cannot for the light of day think for themselves, without looking at the 'good book' to check if it's o.k. it's absolutly pathetic. to be fearful of some non-proving being? that's even more pathetic. i don't fear god, the devil or death. i'm a 'person'. maybe you would like to try being a 'person' one day. i tell you it's great.

..."maybe you would like to try being a 'person' one day."...

Are you serious? And you take offense to me saying that you are "narrow minded"? Really?

You're not a bigot eh? But I'm not a person, a "stupid sheep" as you say, because I choose a religion? That's a progressive mentality. And you claim all those "Christians" are single-minded. I'll add Self-Righteous to your resume of Very Important Qualities.

Mmhmm. You don't generalize a bit. For sure. I'm done here. IMO you aren't half as interesting as you seem to think you are. And I don't mean that as a dig. I just find this thread to be played out by now. Cheers.

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
Are you serious? And you take offense to me saying that you are "narrow minded"? Really?

nothing wrong with not liking organized religion, nor does that make you a narrow minded person. the narrow minded people are the blind people who have faith in these religions.

You're not a bigot eh? But I'm not a person, a "stupid sheep" as you say, because I choose a religion? That's a progressive mentality. And you claim all those "Christians" are single-minded. I'll add Self-Righteous to your resume of Very Important Qualities.

not 'all'. but in the grand scheme of things 'most' are. this is from personal experience. i've met christians, and spoken to them, had meaningful conversations with them. sometimes talked about dinosaurs...to get the response 'i sort of believe in them, but as the world is ony 6,000 years old, if dinosaurs were reall, then they lived with man...maybe outside the garden of eden to begin with'. i just cannot stand a sentence like that. with no proof or suggestable evidence to show that either of those statements about the world or dinosaurs living with man are true. it's just like making up stuff as you go along. the same goes for ID. i've asked them if the ice age ever happened... and that's a big no no from them.

now not all the christians i've spoken to think like this, some have the ability to rationalize their reality and use some common sense. one in particular who's been a christian her whole life, said to me the other day 'you wouldn't believe the crap that comes out of my (christian) youth leader's mouth, and all those kids just sit there and take it all in...it's horrible'. she's said even if she turns from christianity that she'd still believe there's a god...just not the way it happened in the bible. that's what i'm all for. nothing wrong with that.

what i have a problem with is the christian morals, we're better than you, general fakeness, money spining, lying, televangelist attitudes. atleast then when a 'person' brings their thoughts to the table, they're not bringing quote after quote from the bible, or saying after saying from the bible, or just in general...something from the bible. me narrow minded? how narrow minded do you have to be to believe everything in the bible...extremely narrow minded one would think.

Mmhmm. You don't generalize a bit. For sure. I'm done here. IMO you aren't half as interesting as you seem to think you are. And I don't mean that as a dig. I just find this thread to be played out by now. Cheers.

too right this threads too played out. i never tried to insinuate that i was interesting, and i also don't care if you don't find me interesting, because i'm not here to entertain you or interest you.