The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Produkt
Lol... Lemme rephrase that! Ask the heathen's and witch's that christianity has killed.

I cannot, there were none.

[edit on 7-3-2006 by saint4God]

Wow, open denial. Such bravery.

en.wikipedia.org...

And how were those actions Christian? Yes, Exodus states not to suffer a witch, but Christ fulfilled the law and turned it on its head in many Jews' eyes when he said, "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone".

Exodus was also the law by which the land of Israel was to be governed. The people of that land, as was evidenced with the woman Christ saved from stoning, decided to take the land's law into their own hands, ignoring the 7th commandment (no murder).

So though people may have used the guise of Christianity to exact their political ends, that does not make the practice "Christian".

Christian's were the one's who did the witch trial's. Not some 3rd party politicaly agenda influenced group. They were christian's. It's not like say ... A bunch of jewish folk went under the guise of christianity and commited these crime's just to give the sect a bad name. No, not indeed. It was the christian folk themselve's who twisted the biblical verse's for their own sick twisted violent act's against anything that opposed thier religion.

And every Christian or person who claims to be a Christian follows every tenant of their faith 100%, right? Every Christian is perfect? Is that what you're saying?

If so, I'd love to meet the Christians you're thinking of, because I've not met those Christians. EDIT: I've not even met those Christians who would claim such a thing.

Witch trials violate the principles of Christianity. How does one love one's neighbor if they're torturing them?

If you can tell me where Christ condones torture and witch trials, in context, I'll give it to you. Otherwise, I'm going to have to assume you're a serial killer because there have been atheist serial killers.


[edit on 3/7/06/07 by junglejake]

Originally posted by junglejake
If you can tell me where Christ condones torture and witch trials, in context, I'll give it to you. Otherwise, I'm going to have to assume you're a serial killer because there have been atheist serial killers.

^^^^^about the dumbest thing i've read on this board^^^^^^

i could assume the same about you. except place atheist, with christian. it'd be like assuming every muslim you meet is a terrorist. which, i think...the police are already do.

i'm sure you're no stranger to the christian crusades, where they slaughtered people who didn't believe what they believed. a quote from the pope at the time 'kill them all, god will know his own'. so loving...

now i know you're not all like that, but nonetheless it's your religion's history. why do you choose to love the history and be thankyou for stuff like jesus, yet deny or turn a blind eye when something such as witch burning or the crusades come up...

[edit on 7-3-2006 by shaunybaby]

Yeah, seriously. That's like saying "I'm a vegetarian, but I eat steak and ribs all the time!". The salem witch trials were tragic, but don't pin the blame on every christian out there. Its not like we blame Charles Manson's slaughtering on every atheist out there.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by junglejake
If you can tell me where Christ condones torture and witch trials, in context, I'll give it to you. Otherwise, I'm going to have to assume you're a serial killer because there have been atheist serial killers.

^^^^^about the dumbest thing i've read on this board^^^^^^

WOOHOO! Who are my contenders? How can I place first?

i could assume the same about you. except place atheist, with christian. it'd be like assuming every muslim you meet is a terrorist.

That was my point I wouldn't really assume that because I know better and I try not to be a hypocrite. That was typed very tongue in cheek.

i'm sure you're no stranger to the christian crusades, where they slaughtered people who didn't believe what they believed. a quote from the pope at the time 'kill them all, god will know his own'. so loving...

Same point I made about the witch trials applies to this one.

now i know you're not all like that, but nonetheless it's your religion's history. why do you choose to love the history and be thankyou for stuff like jesus, yet deny or turn a blind eye when something such as witch burning or the crusades come up...
[edit on 7-3-2006 by shaunybaby]

I don't deny that was done in Christ's name. I deny that it was done in compliance with Christ's message.

Originally posted by junglejake
I don't deny that was done in Christ's name. I deny that it was done in compliance with Christ's message.

well they did it in 'gods' name. many attrocities have been done in 'gods' name. whether it's the christian god, or allah etc.

the difference between atheists who would do similar things, is that they do it because they perhaps want to, they make that concious decision. however, people who claim they do it for 'god', say they heard some unproven deity state to them to commit the murder/crime or to blow themselves up with a suicide bomb.

people often say god talks to them etc. so it'd be unwise therefore to deny someone's claim that god asked them to kill? maybe he does ask them to kill. in either case whether he asks them or not, god comes off as a rather dangerous thing. because if he is telling people to kill...well that speaks for itself. and if he isn't telling people to kill, then we have a whole lot of crazy people who think god does tell them to kill. either way, that's not good for anyone.

Originally posted by junglejake

Originally posted by shaunybaby
^^^^^about the dumbest thing i've read on this board^^^^^^

WOOHOO! Who are my contenders? How can I place first?

I don't care who you are, that thar is funny.

Kidding aside for a moment, let's work with a few definitions for a moment please. A Christian is one who follows Christ. Christ said "love you neighbor" and "love your enemy". If you do not follow these things, you are not following what Christ said. One needs to follow Christ in order to be considered Christian. I don't care what people call themselves. If I say I'm a duck, it does not make me a duck.


[edit on 8-3-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Kidding aside for a moment, let's work with a few definitions for a moment please. A Christian is one who follows Christ. Christ said "love you neighbor" and "love your enemy". If you do not follow these things, you are not following what Christ said. One needs to follow Christ in order to be considered Christian. I don't care what people call themselves. If I say I'm a duck, it does not make me a duck.

so the people that say god tells them to kill, they're lying in your words?

like i said before, either god 'IS' telling people to kill, or if he isn't, then there's a lot of crazy people around the world who think he is.

therefore, if god can have that effect on people, to make them think he's telling them to kill. then really what is god. other than something made up in every individual's mind.

sure, saint, you think god wouldn't tell people to kill, and you say jesus tells us to love your neighbor and enemy. well that's great, but that's your mind. in another person's mind, god is telling them to kill.

and again, either god really 'IS' telling them, or god actually turns people crazy in to thinking he's telling them to kill. either way, it's not good for anyone.

Saint,

How do you know jesus said any of that?

so the people that say god tells them to kill, they're lying in your words?

like i said before, either god 'IS' telling people to kill, or if he isn't, then there's a lot of crazy people around the world who think he is.

therefore, if god can have that effect on people, to make them think he's telling them to kill. then really what is god. other than something made up in every individual's mind.

sure, saint, you think god wouldn't tell people to kill, and you say jesus tells us to love your neighbor and enemy. well that's great, but that's your mind. in another person's mind, god is telling them to kill.

and again, either god really 'IS' telling them, or god actually turns people crazy in to thinking he's telling them to kill. either way, it's not good for anyone.

Somedays I wonder if there's any point to speaking on these threads. I'm hope the answers here are self-evident. I'd like to clarify the misconception that this is what Jesus says "in my mind" which is ridiculious because that would mean I wrote the Bible and am responsible for anyone who ever had that thoughout history.

Instead of specifically answering your post, I'd like to let it sit for a while, to be read and reviewed by you, me and others here to take a good hard look at it and let the wheels inside our heads click into place as they should. Looking forward to further responses and will be back with you soon should there be no other replies forthcoming.

Produkt, the answer to that question is the same way every other saint in the world today and in history knows.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by saint4God]

love your neighbor and enemy... yeah to a certain extent, unless of course you're angry and want to turn over some tables and ransack the temple... hmmmm

what happened to the 'love' there. would this not indicate that jesus was not 'perfect'. as he gets angry and annoyed. now that's not a sign of perfection at all.

Originally posted by saint4God
Somedays I wonder if there's any point to speaking on these threads. I'm hope the answers here are self-evident. I'd like to clarify the misconception that this is what Jesus says "in my mind" which is ridiculious because that would mean I wrote the Bible and am responsible for anyone who ever had that thoughout history.

Instead of specifically answering your post, I'd like to let it sit for a while, to be read and reviewed by you, me and others here to take a good hard look at it and let the wheels inside our heads click into place as they should. Looking forward to further responses and will be back with you soon should there be no other replies forthcoming.

so you don't want to answer about god telling people to kill?

there's only two possibilities, either he does actually tell people, or he doesn't.

if he does...like i said before, that answers itself.

and if he doesn't this means that people make up that he tells people to kill.

now if it's made up that god speaks to people and tells them to kill, as i doubt saint you believe that god 'literally' does tell people to kill, then can other things be made up too?

made up to a certain extent like a vision etc... as if someone can make up that god told them to kill, then it's not farfetched that the same could be done for a vision. god has such a bearing on some people that it makes them believe that god tells them to kill, or they see god in a mirror, or some sort of vision etc.

Shauny, I'm not here to fight or argue for argument's sake. If you're not willing to at least look at and consider what I'm saying, how do you expect me to do the same with your posts? You've said you've read the Bible, right? What does Jesus say he was doing and why he did it? I know you know the answer, so I'm unsure what the point of this provocation is.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by saint4God]

Saint,

When was the bible written? Year's after his death. How do you know, for a fact, that those words written are the words spoken by jesus? Word for word.

Originally posted by Produkt
Saint,

When was the bible written?

I know not of anyone who can accurately pin a date.

Originally posted by Produkt
Year's after his death.

Except you of course.

Originally posted by Produkt
How do you know, for a fact, that those words written are the words spoken by jesus? Word for word.

Check with God.

Could've saved abit of time instead of quoting and such, and just said I don't know the answer.

Originally posted by saint4God
Shauny, I'm not here to fight or argue for argument's sake. If you're not willing to at least look at and consider what I'm saying, how do you expect me to do the same with your posts? You've said you've read the Bible, right? What does Jesus say he was doing and why he did it? I know you know the answer, so I'm unsure what the point of this provocation is.

can you stop avoiding my question.

can you answer on whether god IS telling people to kill, or whether those people make it up?

now i doubt you believe god tells people to kill, therefore they make it up. if people can make something like that up, what stops them from making up in general, stuff about god...

Originally posted by shaunybaby
therefore, if god can have that effect on people, to make them think he's telling them to kill. then really what is god. other than something made up in every individual's mind.

sure, saint, you think god wouldn't tell people to kill, and you say jesus tells us to love your neighbor and enemy. well that's great, but that's your mind. in another person's mind, god is telling them to kill.

and again, either god really 'IS' telling them, or god actually turns people crazy in to thinking he's telling them to kill. either way, it's not good for anyone.

You draw false conclusions based off of specious evidence. Your argument in this case is illogical, and given the value of "FALSE". Speaking from a strictly evidentiary point of view, your premise does not even support your assertion!

"Some people who believe in God Kill people. These people claim God told them to do it, proving their insanity. Therefore, ALL people who believe in God are Insane."

That would be like me saying...

"Some atheists think there is a conspiracy to brainwash them. These people claim Christians are all out to get them. Therefore, All Atheists think Christians brainwash poeple."

Or, a simpler Example.

Some triangles are Green. Green triangles are equilateral. Therefore ALL triangles are equilateral.

Learn some LOGIC, fools.