WW3 Operation Downfall, no nukes invented scenario.

WW3 Operation Downfall, no nukes invented scenario.

Chapter 1

Operation Downfall Begins

Allies have begun invading Japanese Homeland to end the Ruthless Rising Sun Empire.
The Japs are fighting to death. Over millions of dead people. Hundreds of sunken ships.

Chinese Civil War
Chinese civil war has not resumed as China is constantly finishing off all Jap territories weakening more of ROCs army. United China are picking off the last of the Japanese Occupation. Soviet has now send massive armoured units to support Chinese Army. T-34s and IS tanks are moving to the Pacific. Soviet and China invade Korea to free Koreans.


Chapter 2
Chang Kai Shek has been assassinated ending the reign of ROC. Mao is officially the new leader of China and will always be due to more manpower from peasants recruitment(Don't fk with the peasant army). Stalin supports Mao reign of China. Allies fully occupies Japanese territory is now split between Soviet controlled, American controlled and British controlled. Korean war never happens, Korea is united. Korean War never exists as it was the Chinese that help free Korea from Japanese occupation

Douglas MacArthur plans to invade Korea to remove communism. Koreans ask China for help. China ask for Soviet support. Stalin sees US has broken the treaties. US ask British for support. Britain stays out and remain neutral. US civilians are calling an end to a third world war in Asia.

Chapter 3

German re-armament is official. Seeing Soviet sending armoured units and fighters to support Koreans and Chinese. Some Americans say we have fought the wrong enemy. British Empire sees America as a threat and tells US not to re-arm the Germans. The third war in Europe has begin to invade Soviet Union. Nazi groups are re-armed, some causing terror attacks in Europe esp against Jewish people. German Nazi terror attacks in France. US blames Soviet Union for the attack. Millions more Americans force to conscript against Soviet Union and the war in Asia.

All Asians that look Chinese/Korean are now in internment camps

Chapter 4
Media reports the truth starting from rest of the world to American journalist in the other side of the world. They are called Communist spies. British has officially recognize treaties broken from the allies of Europe by US. Britain calls for Canada join the war against US. France is angry. Majority of European countries asks for ceasefire against Soviet Union. US military lockdown America with technological superiority. Coloured War plans

2nd American civil war happens. Lots of Natives and coloured people slaughter by white supremacy groups.

War plan Red is a go against the British and rest of the world.

Hundreds of Millions dead in the Third World war started by USA.

Chapter 5
Some Germans switch sides against America. The left over Nazis Germans tries to stay in power in Germany and fight in the Western front with American troops against Soviet Union but failing as all European countries have officially declared US empire are major threat to the world. American troops realized they are losing and started to switch sides. Coup against the President of US happens, but the real fault is caused by US generals. Major coup happens in US military and Generals of US military are token by surprise. Douglas McArthur was captured and proven to have started the war first by invading Korean under China's Influence. Public execution by American coup.

Relief of Douglas Macarthur who wanted to expand the war into China



Chapter 6

Canada and Mexico becomes an invading port for the world to come in against US. The war is against the American Empire who broken all treaties and supported another Nazi empire. Canada becomes a multinational military joint alliance. The Allies of WW2 continue without US.


Chapter 7
All white supremacy groups are hunted down and executed in the US for slaughtering millions of Americans in the civil war.
Stalin is assassinated as the war took a lot of casualties of both US and Soviet army. Russia becomes a free country again from communist manifesto as a change of system has to happen. Mao communist party loses support from Russia. China starts a slow peaceful transition as the allies of the world have a better system than Mao's government. China starts copying the government policies of the world and using only the good policies. The world has the right to bear arm after the third conflict. British empire falls due to mass casualties fighting against America. Canada is recognized as a free multinational country without being influence by the British as the World Governments has rights into Canada. America follows Canadian route peacefully.

Technological advancement continues.... The story continues. Robot war maybe?

I was quite surprised to hear for the first time on some YouTube clip recently that the US had already fire-bombed Tokyo in March 1945 (months before the nuclear bombs in August of that year).

The Bombing of Tokyo (東京大空襲, Tōkyōdaikūshū) was a series of firebombing air raids by the United States Army Air Forces during the Pacific campaigns of World War II. Operation Meetinghouse, which was conducted on the night of 9–10 March 1945, is regarded as the single most destructive bombing raid in human history.[1] 16 square miles (41 km2; 10,000 acres) of central Tokyo were destroyed, leaving an estimated 100,000 civilians dead and over one million homeless.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now knowing a bit about the British fire-bombing of the free German city of Dresden (February 13-15 1945 ), I don't know which is worse, except that nuclear is quicker.

Not sure, but apparently Japan's peace feelers were already out at the time.

But I think some more firebombing would have done the same, except that it takes a wee bit longer.

a reply to: makemap

IF the atomic bomb had not been invented another invention that was ready to be put into production but in the end was abandoned only because the atomic bomb brought the war to an end before it could be implemented.

This other invention was Pykrete.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Idea was to build carriers like none that had ever been seen, larger than the current world's largest ship's and they would be essentially ship shaped ice berg's with refrigeration systems within them, virtually bomb proof and any damage able to be repaired very fast these would have had entire floating US army and full scale air bases that would have been able to launch attack's upon the Japanese home island's with impunity, meanwhile the Japanese had began massive excavations of tunnel network's that have not ever been fully disclosed to the public even to this day but which I am sure the US is fully aware of, these huge underground facility's rivaling even the largest that Nazi Germany had built were to be home to underground air field's, factory's and even city's for the Japanese civilian's to retreat to BUT we all know that by that point in the war the US had become expert at dealing with underground Japanese facility's so while they may have held up the Russian's they would hardly have hindered the US, Australian, New Zealand and British forces that would have come to take them down, likely two thirds to three quarters of Japan would have ended up under Western Allies occupation while the remainder would have been a last minute land grab by Stalinist Russia.

a reply to: halfoldman

Now knowing a bit about the British fire-bombing of the free German city of Dresden.....

I recognise that some people may think the bombing of Dresden was unnecessary and maybe even viewed as vindictive but I don't understand what you mean by 'free German city of Dresden'?

a reply to: makemap

You seem convinced that for some reason the UK and USA would become enemies, why?

We'll never know what would have happened but I'm sure it would have involved a certain amount of death and war.

a reply to: Freeborn

Good question, because I always thought it sometimes referred to as "free" because it harbored 600 000 refugees and was regarded as a civilian, rather than legitimate target in 1945. Although this is all controversial.

However, from what I found on Google it seems to refer "district-free" in post-War politics.

The mind boggles a bit (especially writing from South Africa), but maybe there should be a future thread specifically on Dresden.

en.wikipedia.org...(district)

Of course it could also go back to the Holy Roman Empire, when "free cities" denoted those with a degree of autonomy (as explained in the beginning of the link below), since Dresden covered a wide area including the center, and out-lying areas

In the Holy Roman Empire, the collective term free and imperial cities (German: Freie und Reichsstädte), briefly worded free imperial city (Freie Reichsstadt, Latin: urbs imperialis libera), was used from the fifteenth century to denote a self-ruling city that had a certain amount of autonomy and was represented in the Imperial Diet.[1] An imperial city held the status of Imperial immediacy, and as such, was subordinate only to the Holy Roman Emperor, as opposed to a territorial city or town (Landstadt) which was subordinate to a territorial prince – be it an ecclesiastical lord (prince-bishop, prince-abbot) or a secular prince (duke (Herzog), margrave, count (Graf), etc.).

en.wikipedia.org...

Maybe another history buff can help, on why the bombed part of Dresden was often called this?

a reply to: halfoldman

The fire bombing of Tokyo was accomplished by hundreds of airplanes.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki by one plane on each city. That's, logistically speaking, much more efficient.

a reply to: halfoldman

Dresden is the capital of The Free State of Saxony.
Maybe similar as Orange Free State?

Dresden was a major manufacturing centre and there were garrisons situated in and around the city.

I think almost anywhere was regarded a legitimate target during WWII, the Germans certainly targeted civilian areas during WWII, I wouldn't be that surprised if The Allies reciprocated in kind.

Don't really want to derail this thread by going in to any sort of depth on this.

a reply to: seagull

Aye, the bombs those two planes released were rather efficient compared to the typical incendiaries.

My understanding was that Japan was ready to surrender to America before the Soviets got a hold of there arse as long as they could keep there Emperor.

Anyhoo its history now, and whats done is done.

Hell of a thing to unleash on anybody all the same, nuclear fire that is.

a reply to: Freeborn

Yip, but thanks for raising this, because I'm getting the distinct feeling that the descriptive "free" when applied to Dresden by my history teachers didn't actually mean what I assumed it meant for many years.

I guess like in English a BA degree has nothing necessarily to do with fine arts or painting, but an "art" simply meant a "profession" at the time this was all coined. Or a crime against humanity could be understood as a holocaust-type extermination (in which case apartheid wouldn't qualify, since the black population increased manifold during that period), or a crime against people's sense of humanity, or human dignity (in which case it would). All these things can be misunderstood or wrongly taught.

a reply to: halfoldman



Probably deliberately spun that way just to make the British and Americans look like complete bastards, as usual. lol.

a reply to: andy06shake

The citizens of Japan, they probably were ready to call it a day.

Elements within the military, not so much. It took an order from Hirohito, and the presence of some of the Royal Family to finally corral the military completely.

It's just as well. The bloodbath that would have been Operation: Downfall would have been genocidal in scope. Not thousands, but hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of casualties.

I have personal reasons for being grateful it didn't come to pass...two of my mothers brothers would have been in the opening waves, and my Dad not far behind.

a reply to: makemap

All those big bad white people.

I guess the chip on your shoulder is so bad your text salivates with the thought of "hunting them down and executing" them.
You are clearly up for mass murder/genocide to satisfy your inferiority complexes.

Mass murder of ANY group for ANY reason is NEVER good, whether it's the murder of Jews by Nazis, massacre of population in Cambodia by the Khmer, genocide of the Tutsis by the Hutus in Rwanda, etc

How many Japanese civilians did US kill via the bombing? 200K??

originally posted by: pressident
How many Japanese civilians did US kill via the bombing?

Obviously the correct amount since it lead to them surrendering.

a reply to: LABTECH767

That Ice aircraft carrier is a failure project especially when its seasonal. It would've melted and all the planes would've sunk with it. That plan would just cause massive delays for Brits and Americans. Waste of resources.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: makemap

You seem convinced that for some reason the UK and USA would become enemies, why?

We'll never know what would have happened but I'm sure it would have involved a certain amount of death and war.

Dude, War plan red was declassified in 1974.

So yes, during that time US will become UK enemy. Especially before the 90's with all the white American racism against Blacks and Asian. UK takes your guns away, US don't. One cannot follow two countries that does the direct opposite of each other(choose your sides).

a reply to: M5xaz

If some group comes in and start gunning down your family because you have different skin colour what would you do? Read properly, this is during a 2nd civil war such groups as Nazism and KKK. You can't change them. The Vets of WW2 would fking slap you in the face if you don't execute people like them, just like WW2 in Europe. You got to read more about European theatre on executions of Nazi. This is during the time the world still intense against Nazism after WW2. You have to be asking why US have fking Neo-nazi's in modern time?

a reply to: makemap

Dude, War plan red was declassified in 1974.

Its called being prepared for any eventuality.

As far as I'm aware the USA had plans to invade more or less every country.
And I'd be amazed if there weren't plans for the UK to counter attack the US and invade most of other countries buried in some secret vault in some dark forgotten cellar in Whitehall.

Especially before the 90's with all the white American racist ancestors.

Sorry, I haven't got a clue what you are trying to say here?

UK takes your guns away, US don't.

Zzzzzz……..

One cannot follow two countries that does the direct opposite.

Only one country I'll ever be loyal to.

a reply to: Freeborn

I edited my post read again. Plus you more than likely won't exist and same for me on this scenario.