Wuhan Coronavirus Symptoms at Onset

a reply to: ketsuko

Well, that is certainly interesting.
I'm not sure I ever heard mention of Cytokine Storm Syndrome.

a reply to: ketsuko

I like that article it’s interesting. They isolated that the signaling cascade begins with cytotoxic CD8 T cells going haywire because they lack the perforin needed to go and start poking holes in all the infected cells so they start cycling. That’s a new approach and it’s a cool theory, others had pointed in problems in down regulation with regulatory T cells being a possible problem.

I like how they are developing quick tests and diagnostic criteria to screen for this so patients more prone to it do not go into septic shock.

Coronavirus, Borrelli: "The symptoms have not been recognized by health professionals". The expert: "Virus could circulate as early as January"

In Italy there is a very high level of health screening , but health professionals have not been able to recognize the symptoms of the virus". Coronavirus emergency commissioner Angelo Borrelli took stock of the reasons for the rapid spread of coronavirus at a press conference in Rome. Not a "fault" of the doctors, but an objective "difficulty" in identifying the symptoms of the new Covid-19 pneumonia, almost entirely superimposable to the common seasonal flu. To date, added Borrelli " over 3 thousand swabs have been made".

SOURCE

originally posted by: TheAMEDDDoc
a reply to: ketsuko

isolated that the signaling cascade begins with cytotoxic CD8 T cells going haywire because they lack the perforin needed to go and start poking holes in all the infected cells so they start cycling. That’s a new approach and it’s a cool theory, others had pointed in problems in down regulation with regulatory T cells being a possible problem.

I'm confused....if the serum ferritin tends to get very high...how is it that there is a lack of perforin????
What is the relationship?

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Elevated ferritin levels indicate that there may be an acute inflammatory response going on which is what a cytokine storm is. In the paper I linked they say it's the first step. If that is elevated, then they should do a workup to determine if you have a cytokine storm ongoing.

The paper said that the perforin pathway determines how long the cytotoxic cells engaged. In the mutated pathway people, the cells engaged longer, released more toxins, but were far less effective at their job making for a much larger inflammatory response.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

The cytotoxic T cells release perforin and inflammatory signals to destroy their target and call for reinforcements to help destroy the target. They should stop signaling once that target is destroyed, the article mentioned 5 times the amount of signaling in perforin deficient cytotoxic T cells calling for more and more reinforcements to to hit the target tissue. It’s like throwing blood in the water with sharks.

Ferritin must be part of the inflammatory process or a result of damage to tissue or certain cells as a result of the inflammatory process. It could even help tissue through the process, I have to go read that article again and another one focusing on macrophage activation and other respiratory diseases that turn septic.

One can help us identify the problem more quickly and the other must be related to some deficiency or genetic anomaly, the immune system is usually really good at destroying deficient cells before it lets them loose.

a reply to: mamabethThe Tabasco sauce is interesting as it’s hot. We got a tonic that had turmeric, ginger, onion, habanero pepper and apple cider vinegar, all of which are touted as helping colds and flu. We made our own actually but it has to sit for several weeks. Our recipe has horseradish so we got a fresh root from the local coop.
Also I’ve heard about rose water and read that Nostradamus actually cultivated rose petals for patients with bubonic plague.

What makes you think it’s intentional? a reply to: visitedbythem

originally posted by: Rob808
What makes you think it’s intentional? a reply to: visitedbythem

A virus specialist said it was, but he thought they may have been trying to make a vaccine with it when it escaped. I think he said it had certain protein that showed it was related to SARS, and another that linked it to HIV. He said it didn't happen on its own

originally posted by: TheAMEDDDoc
a reply to: ketsuko
Thanks for the explanation.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

Would haemochromatosis (genetic iron overload disorder) pose an increased risk to a Coronavirus patient?
I'm way overdue for another therapeutic blood donation to control the above and wondering whether to make it a priority although my iron levels are far from critically high so far.

originally posted by: Ironclad1964
a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Normally, when I get the flu from a family member, I only feel like crap for about a day then I'm fine..

Fever, aches and pains, congestion normally breaks in about 24 hours.

I am wondering how I'll stand up against this new bug..

It's gotten out now, no stopping it really at this point and I have a feeling that at some point, everyone will get it.

I really doubt “everyone” will get it - maybe many more - but we’ll see how the disease does when the weather gets much warmer in the coming months in the Northern Hemisphere and flu season is fully behind us.

Now, that said, if you’ve been a parent of small children in the last 10 years you’ve probably gotten sick - like fml sick. These little ones bring home diseases from pre-school, kindergarten, they’re own biology - who knows - that should send the CDC into a code brown/S’ing their pants frenzy.

I’ve never, ever, gotten sick like I did when my kids were little. Ear infections, bronchitis, the flu, stomach flu, sinusitis, constant nasal drip, sore throats, dry cough, wet cough, cold sweats, hot sweats, high fever, low body temp, malaise and whatever else jr. can throw at you. In my adult life, I can’t recall ever being that sick that many times. Just crushed me. Two little girls who collectively weighed 50 lbs just absolutely demolished in an unforgiving way their 6’4”, 250 lb father.

Since then? I largely don’t get sick (knock on wood/no jinx). I’m glad that’s the case because I got my butt kicked for quite literally years. Now they’re healthy, I’m healthy, mom’s healthy and it’s all good.

I’m not saying “bring on the Coronavirus” but my immune system is now built to deal with some nasty stuff. At this point I’ll take it on like everyone else If it comes my way, but I’m just not that worried about it.

a reply to: Pilgrum

I don’t believe so, this is different and part of the inflammatory process. We’re seeing two things here, one is a genetic or developmental issue with T-Cells. Usually the body will tell abnormal immune cells like naive or undeveloped T-Cells to self destruct once they fail quality control in the bone marrow. This does not happen with these, there would have to be significant numbers of them too.

The ferritin is an easy to see, one of many detectors that we can confirm early sepsis or risk of sepsis with. It looks like it stimulates production of blood cells, results from cleaning up casualties and serves as a protector and antioxidant during these battles for healthy tissue. It’s a side effect of inflammation and an earlier part of process so they want to use it as screening method for sepsis.

Ferritin is stored iron released during inflammation, like a case of packaged iron refined and ready to use for the body. Free iron would be like iron ore lying around that still needs to be refined and processed for use by the body. Depending on whether you have free iron or stored iron high or both would really make this screening test have a higher error rate or not function at all. I don’t think it will mess with the signaling too much, there are so many other components of the process but I will read some articles to double check in case I’m wrong.

a reply to: Boadicea

Exactly! You can take precautions do what you can and hope for the best.

You can't go about afraid of contact or you will drive yourself crazy.
Be one of those people who won't shake hands or let people touch them.
No touching would drive me crazy.

I didn't see anything about sore throats. Did anyone?
I got a tickle in the throat this morning but we have some emergent plants already and it could be from pollen.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

This spreads without any symptoms being present unfortunately so even people who will show symptoms later can spread it before they know they are sick.

Are there any cases that did not originate in China?

a reply to: Sillyolme

I am not afraid of contact,I just want to be cautious.I am
going to work on improving my immune system.I have family
members who depend on me.
I am also not one of those touchy,feely types at all,I would be
okay in not shaking someone's hand.

a reply to: Sillyolme

That is a good question and I would be interested in the answer.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

I'm one of those asymptomatic folks. I have never had the flu and seldom get colds but I am sure I must have come in contact with it somewhere in my life.
My body temp is also always low. I click in at 97.8 almost 100% of the time.
I don't know if that factors in or not though. LOL

Typhoid Mary spread the disease without ever getting ill herself.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

And it sounds like if it doesn't help with a cold it will still make a great marinade.
Lol just lightening the mood.