Mysterious 'ghost population' of ancient humans discovered

carbon dating perhaps the best way to prevent re-writhing history lolll

since we dropt Atomic bombs everyting is contaminated with radiation…

a reply to: BarcsOnce again a spin top get people away from truth,any story the filthy Brits bring up is a lie,probably ghost's of inhabitants who were killed in a worldwide disaster,why Natl parks are private,so you can't dig for truth

How did they all breed if they were not one species?

originally posted by: TheSkunk
How did they all breed if they were not one species?

Good question and this destroys any natural interpretation of evolution.

This could point to an advanced civilization tinkering with the DNA of ancient Hominids. Some people already proposed this with Biological SETI. This could be Alien DNA.

originally posted by: Tartarianemperor
a reply to: trollz

But that would mean the out of Africa theory isn't correct since Neanderthals are believed to have been from Eurasia.

The first “Out if Africa” wave occurred at least 1.8 Ma where we find archaic H. Erectus in the Caucuses in what is today Georgia. The Neanderthal as well as Denisovans, are the descendants of H. Heidelbergensis in Europe.

originally posted by: FlyingSquirrel
a reply to: Barcs

The best thing about this is that black supremacists and black racists love to tout that white people are part Neanderthal and that they're pure homosapien. It reminds me of Nazi racial superiority except reversed.

Too bad that is entirely incorrect. Neanderthal genetics are present in every African population. The only one with very limited contact with Neanderthal genetics is the Khoi-San people. Genes don’t lie.

Lo and behold, human males in their ethnic groups did the same thing that they did in European ones; banged anything that resembled a woman and was easy.

Your tribe raided their dwelling and you killed their men but the women who dont want to fight and are cowering, scared, sometimes with babies? They played on your moral heart strings so you kept them captive. You know what happens next. She might pop out some badass fighters or sex slaves.

That’s a very broad and over generalized view devoid of anything to support it other than your insistence that it is true.

Rest assured, no Neanderthal or ghost (black ironically) Neanderthal men were knocking up human women. I'd like to think they were on the consistent losing end of the fight and never organized attacks.

Rest assured, you are 100% incorrect. Not only did Neanderthal and AMH successfully mate and create hybrid offspring, they also in some instances, cohabitated the same site, buried their dead together and shared lithic technology (when H. Sapiens first encountered Neanderthal in the Levant, Neanderthal had the superior tool kit). This wasn’t some sort of murder and rape scenario. These were two groups of humans who lived together and created family units.

I’m not sure where you get your information from but I would suggest trying different sources.

originally posted by: ressiv
carbon dating perhaps the best way to prevent re-writhing history lolll

since we dropt Atomic bombs everyting is contaminated with radiation…

The radiation from the atomic testing doesn’t affect any organic material that had passed away prior to 1945 and we are able to account for the new variable when making calculations. Furthermore, with new advances like scanning electron microscopy, we’ve been able to extend the viable window of efficacy from 50 Ka to 100 Ka because SEM allows us to literally count every single atom making it far easier to obtain a more accurate date.

originally posted by: Tartarianemperor
a reply to: trollz

So that would mean there had to be the common ancestor in Europe already that evolved to the European climate and became what we know as Neanderthals and then modern day humans that evolved in Africa travelled to Europe and inhabited and interbreed with the neanderthals in Eurasia?

No. Early hominids left Africa, evolved and then breed with other humans later. Neanderthal still has roots that trace back to Africa.

originally posted by: Barcs

No. Early hominids left Africa, evolved and then breed with other humans later.

What's the empirical data to show that? Even your own source admits:

"This is in part because of sparse fossil records in Africa and the difficulty of obtaining ancient DNA."


Your source simply did a computer model because there's no real conclusive evidence to support evolutionary theory.

a reply to: cooperton

Ignorant as always... What they really did was establish a molecular clock based on Mutation rates and calculated a rough Time Frame The admixture occurred. This technique has been demonstrated effectively on numerous organisms of known ages and the dates come back within the known variables. It’s not brain surgery. You just need to read a book.

If nobody has come up with a name for these people, might I suggest "Altergeistians?"

originally posted by: peter vlar
What they really did was establish a molecular clock based on Mutation rates

That's some faith you have. this estimate found that the likelihood of a successful random mutative protein domain alteration is about 1/100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000...
...000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. And that's just to have a new protein functional group that isn't harmful! Let alone a protein functional change that so happens to generate the exact function required by the organism.


This is yet another reason why evolution is not a plausible explanation for the diversity of biological organisms.

and calculated a rough Time Frame The admixture occurred.

My question is how could they have possibly obtained substantial DNA information from a "half million year old sample" when DNA's half life is only 521 years? This means that even after 5,210 years, 99.9% of the DNA bonds will have been broken. So obviously these samples are younger than 5,000 years. Even with dramatic preservation conditions, there's no way substantial DNA fragments could preserve for very long. Unless you want to deny science to fit your narrative.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: peter vlar
What they really did was establish a molecular clock based on Mutation rates

That's some faith you have. this estimate found that the likelihood of a successful random mutative protein domain alteration is about 1/100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000...
...000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. And that's just to have a new protein functional group that isn't harmful! Let alone a protein functional change that so happens to generate the exact function required by the organism.

You’re so filled with the lust of confirmation bias that you don’t even understand what you’re replying to. Your above numbers mean absolutely nothing in the context of this not so new information. We’ve known for several years that there was an unknown hominid species that left their genetic imprint on west African populations. All were talking about is admixture, not the possibilities regarding positive, neutral or negative mutations.

This is yet another reason why evolution is not a plausible explanation for the diversity of biological organisms.

No, it’s yet further demonstration of how little you actually understand about the MES. In your reply to Barca, you posted a ridiculous meme quoting Darwin. First off, the criteria you highlighted, has not been met. And that doesn’t even take into consideration that “Darwinism” isn’t the sum and substance of the MES. You ignore all science and regurgitate garbage that’s often taken or at least portrayed out of context.

and calculated a rough Time Frame The admixture occurred.

My question is how could they have possibly obtained substantial DNA information from a "half million year old sample" when DNA's half life is only 521 years?

Maybe you should read up for yourself how the science is done instead of soliciting information from a conspiracy site? Or at the very least, read up on what it is you’re trying to refute. It makes you look incredibly ignorant when you rant about not Being able to obtain 500 Ka genetic samples. It’s callled a ghost population because nobody has found their physical remains. Only their genetic remnants surviving in specific modern populations. Are you going to try to claim that we can’t compare genomes From one modern group to another? Are YOU the one denying science to push your agenda? Kinda looks like you are and haven’t even studied the conversation let alone the magnitude of such a find. See, just like we know what nearly unadulterated H. SAPIENS SAPIENS genetics looks like from studying the Khoi-San. We’ve been able to determine which part of European genomes is from Neanderthal, which parts of S.E. Asian genetics are attributed to Denisovans. So why is it so unfathonable that we can see a distinct genetic influx from a species of our genus when we’ve got over a decade of experience and increasingly better techniques for amplifying DNA fragments... to deny that this is science and doable is lunacy.

This means that even after 5,210 years, 99.9% of the DNA bonds will have been broken. So obviously these samples are younger than 5,000 years. Even with dramatic preservation conditions, there's no way substantial DNA fragments could preserve for very long. Unless you want to deny science to fit your narrative.

The only one who denies science to fit a narrative here is you Coop. See, the oldest ancient DNA sequences so far is over 400Ka from Sima de los Huesos where we see genetic and morphological changes from H. Heidelbergensis to archaic Denisovans. It’s about time you kept up with actual science And not whatever fluff is regurgitated on YEC sites

originally posted by: peter vlar
See, the oldest ancient DNA sequences so far is over 400Ka from Sima de los Huesos where we see genetic and morphological changes from H. Heidelbergensis to archaic Denisovans.

That supposed 400,000 year old sample, given a DNA half life of 521 years, should have .000000000000000000000000002% of DNA bonds intact. Yet you want to believe they found a long enough sample to identify DNA fragments? Your faith is blind. Even if the sample was contained in extraordinary preservation, let's say 1,000,000x better, there would still be only .000000000000000000002% of DNA bonds remaining. That means literally no bonds in the entire genome should be intact after 400,000 years, even in extraordinary preservation conditions.

Check my work with a half-life calculator. Science wins. Your fairy tale loses.

half-life calculator

a reply to: cooperton

Your refusal to educate yourself isn’t on me. You come on here and expect people to give you an entire careers worth of information condensed into a couple of paragraphs and it’s not realistic. Evolution is nowhere near as simple As you try to make it appear to be or imply it to be.

Since I know that you won’t read these, I put it out there for people who want to at least understand the other side of the argument.

www.future-science.com...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

www.mpg.de...

originally posted by: peter vlar

www.future-science.com...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

www.mpg.de...

Stop playing go fish. None of these contain a reasonable explanation that shows how the well-known 521 year half-life of DNA could have been defied so drastically. The fact they find any DNA bonds whatsoever proves the samples are wayyyyy younger than the scientists assume.

You're a charlatan. Crass insult and condescension is your only defense because there is no concrete evidence to support your assumptions.

a reply to: cooperton

Damn Coop, you keep getting owned repeatedly and triple down on your idiotic lies instead of of educating yourself. This is how mental illness works. Everything is a scam or conspiracy to you... except your myths and fairy tales of course. Those are absolute truth despite no evidence, yet evolution is absolutely false despite tons of evidence. You are dishonest and your ignorant crusade still hasn't stopped after getting destroyed in every argument you ever have. Pure comedy.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: cooperton

Damn Coop, you keep getting owned repeatedly and triple down on your idiotic lies instead of of educating yourself. This is how mental illness works. Everything is a scam or conspiracy to you... except your myths and fairy tales of course. Those are absolute truth despite no evidence, yet evolution is absolutely false despite tons of evidence. You are dishonest and your ignorant crusade still hasn't stopped after getting destroyed in every argument you ever have. Pure comedy.

All you do is post sci-fi blog posts. You've never actually read and understood a research paper. That's why all you can do is insult people without adding any constructive points to the debate.

The half-life of DNA is 521 years. Even under remarkable preservation, 400,000 year old specimens should have no DNA bonds intact. It's simple science. The evolutionary dogmatists try to complicate it to avoid the obvious answer.

a reply to: cooperton

LOL @ sci-fi blog posts. You are a complete ignoramus with no credibility. That's why everything I post, you try to refute with LIES. You insult people ALL THE TIME on here, please stop it.

Your half-life lie was refuted by me years ago. You are pathetically dishonest.

originally posted by: Tartarianemperor
a reply to: trollz

So that would mean there had to be the common ancestor in Europe already that evolved to the European climate and became what we know as Neanderthals and then modern day humans that evolved in Africa travelled to Europe and inhabited and interbreed with the neanderthals in Eurasia?

There were many waves of hominid migration out of Africa.

Earlier species moved out, may have further evolved elsewhere, but then eventually died out. Modern Humans (homo sapiens) migrated out of Africa more than once, but those earlier migrations died out or retreated.

All current non-African humans are believed to be descended from the most recent migration, which is believed to have begun about 65K years ago.

There was also some overlap between groups that moved out at different times, such as (for example) modern humans who were part of the most recent migration living among Neanderthals and Denisovans who were descended from an earlier common ancestor hominid (maybe Homo heidelbergensis) of all three. Neanderthals and Denisovans (or the common ancestor of just those two) moved out earlier than the most recent migration of homo sapiens.