dragons exist

Originally posted by contraa
Misfit, you missed the point of the story. Bel was an idol, a fake.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the way it is worded talks as if they were two seperate things. An idol (Bel) and then the dragon

23 Now in that place there was a great dragon, which the Babylonians revered.

The dragon is decribed in the text as if it is living

"he fed it to the dragon" "the dragon ate them"

Why would Daniel need to go through showing how the priests were really the ones eating it, and then go and "feed the dragon" to make it burst open. The king had already seen that the priests were corrupt.

22 Therefore the king put them to death, and gave Bel over to Daniel, who destroyed it and its temple

Then it starts talking about a dragon and how Daniel asks permission to kill it "without sword or club"


I was going to read Dancing with Dragons (D. J. Conaway, right?) was it any good?

Seeing as how this entire passage is a text on idolatry, I take the dragon, like Bel to be an Idol. If you want to take the Bible verbatim, you could asume that this "idol" was a real dragon. I would think that kind of defies the whole idea of idolatry, that being the worship of manmad gods/likenesses. But hey, if you want to take the Bible literaly, you certainly wouldn't be the first....

Many Christians would say that an "Idol", is anything that is worshiped in place of, or instead of the real God. Maybe what these people were worshipping was something real ...or living

Worship of "real" gods is covered in commandment 1. You shall have no other gods before me.

Idolatry is considered something separate. 2. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on earth beneath or the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

If you want to assume that the dragon is an actual god, that's personal preference. Myself, I would assume it was another idol as with Bel.

I think this is a point of semantics. I think "they" were worshiping a "living idol" as a god. My point is , I think they were worshiping a living creature.
That is what I read, from the Biblical description.

I just realized, that Dragon Special is this Sunday I believe. Oh I had better not miss it or I'll just kick myself for it.

Originally posted by cosmokatt7
I think this is a point of semantics. I think "they" were worshiping a "living idol" as a god. My point is , I think they were worshiping a living creature.
That is what I read, from the Biblical description.

Thank you! Glad I wasn't the only person who thinks they are talking about a creature that is living.

I'm not Christian, why would I take everything in the Bible literally? I brought it up because I thought it was interesting that the Bible made a mention of a living dragon since this is a debate about wether or not dragons were/are alive.

Originally posted by cosmokatt7
I think this is a point of semantics. I think "they" were worshiping a "living idol" as a god. My point is , I think they were worshiping a living creature.
That is what I read, from the Biblical description.

it does make sense i mean why would they worship something inanimate

I'm going to have to agree with several posters before me.

I think it is very egotistical for us to think that the first dinosaur skeleton to be dug up was by someone in the US in the 1850's.

Fire breathing, fantasy novel, magic toothed dragons?

Insert quote from PT Barnum....

contraa

Seeing as how this entire passage is a text on idolatry, I take the dragon, like Bel to be an Idol. If you want to take the Bible verbatim, you could asume that this "idol" was a real dragon. I would think that kind of defies the whole idea of idolatry, that being the worship of manmad gods/likenesses. But hey, if you want to take the Bible literaly, you certainly wouldn't be the first...

Please help me with your logic. You say, the Bible says; it is an idol, literal.
Then you say it is a dragon, non-literal. How are you able to decide this?
Next, the Bible says: "hair, pitch, tar", these are pretty real things and not very symbolic, at all. It says "eats" and so on, as MisfitDiver has noted. But, that is not my point. The point is; what the method of discernment between literal and non-literal is. Can you teach us this method.

What do you think the word Idol means?
How do you know it always means non-living things?

One dragon is mentioned in Genesis. There's no way to prove from the text that it breathed fire but the creature is definitely identified as a unique reptile. This one was possibly the flying type.

look in ancient times they would'nt know a gun apart from a sword

gun back then would = boom stick
gun today would =jail

dragons are supposebly real hahahaha no..

how could there possibley be a creature sterotyped to breathe fire?!

Hey! Dragons ARE Real!

Me and my friend both saw one!

We were walking thru the Liciantop Forest when we were ambushed by 5 lvl 49 Black Mages! Then we took shelter in a near by cave where we saw some great treasure including a mythril sword, a black sword and a mythril and black shield! Then a lvl 99 Black Dragon came and attacked us! my friend Kenton used his lvl 98 White Lightning magic and I combined that with my lvl 97 Black Lightning magic and then we continued attacking and we finally defeated it! We took the scales and were able to make some Black Dragon Armor. We then abushed the Gintria Kingdom and won and know we both are at lvl 187 and rulers of that Kingdom along with many others and are well known around the whole middle earth!



(Im hoping someone got the whole Runescape/Dungeons and Dragons hint at that, the sad thing is...thats exactly what happened one day when we were playing D&D...)

( yea I know Im a nerd/geek )

EDIT: Just stating that I wasnt serious...dont think Im a nut case...just trying to add some humor to the thread...


[edit on 18-3-2005 by Reikuro]

not all dragons were said to breathe fire, you lot who open your mouths without research just proove how igonorant and stupid you are.

Originally posted by moonbeam13
not all dragons were said to breathe fire, you lot who open your mouths without research just proove how igonorant and stupid you are.

Woah, not needed, dont need to call us ignorant and stupid

why cant we all just get along?

Oh ya...its fun to watch people fight...

EDIT: Took out some things that werent needed

[edit on 19-3-2005 by Reikuro]

Reikuro, I think moon beam was refering to lepracornman, not you. You were just being silly.

lepracorn, made an insulting comment based on ingorance. Fact is lapracorn, that there is a fire spiting insect. It mixes two very explosive chemicals together, they are spit out and explode. Much like Greek Fire. Do you know what insect this is? Warning, I have quite a bit more information than this, so I would advise to talk about what you know, or else you might be embarassed. I also can back up every thing with sources. Can you?

wasnt really paying attention sorry, just saw the stupid part and then posted thats the last time I post when Im out of it

sorry didnt mean to come across so agressive had a bad day when i wrote that, sorry.

Originally posted by moonbeam13
sorry didnt mean to come across so agressive had a bad day when i wrote that, sorry.

Naw Naw Its cool, I didnt see what that guy wrote (I think something is wrong with IE -beats- Im SOO downloading Firefox now -_-)

www.allaboutcreation.org...
Dragon History - Universal Concept in Ancient Cultures
Dragon history is nearly universal throughout the world's ancient cultures. Where did this global concept originate? How did societies throughout the world describe, record, draw, etch, sew and carve such creatures in such uniformity, if they did not witness these creatures during their lifetimes?

Dragon History - Dinosaurs Revealed
Dragon history can be summed up as follows: "The dragons of legend are strangely like actual creatures that have lived in the past. They are much like the great reptiles [dinosaurs], which inhabited the earth long before man is supposed to have appeared on earth." (Knox Wilson, "Dragon", The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 5, 1973, pg. 265.)

In light of that statement from The World Book Encyclopedia, many people don't realize that paleontology (the study of past geological ages based primarily on the study of fossils) is a relatively new science. In fact, the concept of dinosaurs (giant lizards) only surfaced in its present form less than 180 years ago. Prior to that, anyone who found a large fossilized bone assumed it came from an elephant, dragon or giant. There wasn't any notion of "science" attached to these finds.

It wasn't until 1841 that English scientist Richard Owens suggested that the group of "newly discovered" animals be called "dinosaurs," which literally means "terrible lizards." Throughout the next few decades, the first artist depictions of dinosaurs were actually comical when compared to what we can scientifically discern today. How then, do pottery, linens, cave paintings, and written descriptions of "dragons" from 2,000 to 4,000 years ago depict dinosaurs better than what science could muster in the mid-1800's?

Dragon History - A Summation of the Evidence
Where are all these accounts of dragon history? Actually, let's start with the Bible, the most widely published book in history. A search for the word "dragon" in the King James Version of the Bible produces 34 separate matches across 10 different books written between approximately 2000 BC and 90 AD. The word "dragon" (Hebrew: tannin) is used throughout the Old Testament, and most directly translates as "sea or land monsters." In the Book of Job, the author describes the great creatures, Behemoth (Job 40) and Leviathan (Job 41). Although the latest Bible translations use the words elephant, hippo or crocodile instead of Behemoth and Leviathan, the original Hebrew and the context of the descriptions do not allow for these interpretations.

Of course, dragon history is by no means limited to the Bible. Dragon accounts from China, Europe, the Middle East, and ancient Latin America share similar accounts of "dragons" and other beasts. Some cultures revered these creatures. For instance, records of Marco Polo in China show that the royal house kept dragons for ceremonies and dragons were hunted for meat and medicine in the Province of Karazan. Records of the Greek historian Herodotus and the Jewish historian Josephus describe flying reptiles in ancient Egypt and Arabia. In other cultures, it was a great honor to kill these creatures. There are numerous records of warriors killing great beasts in order to establish credibility in a village. Gilgamesh, Fafnir, Beowulf and other famous legends, including the mythology of Egypt, Greece and Rome, include specific descriptions of dragons and other dinosaur-like creatures.

Dragon history is revealed on numerous objects of ancient art throughout the world. Dinosaur-like creatures are featured on Babylonian landmarks, Roman mosaics, Asian pottery and royal robes, Egyptian burial shrouds and government seals, Peruvian burial stones and tapestries, Mayan sculptures, Aboriginal and Native American petroglyphs (carved rock drawings), and many other pieces of ceremonial art throughout ancient cultures. What does all this evidence really mean? Please keep reading…