Don’t shake the president’s hand

I’m usually civil to anyone who’s civil to me, and if someone acts friendly toward me and smiles at me, it’s hard not to reciprocate. And as much as I loathe many leftist politicians and celebrities, I’d probably like most of them if I got to know them, but we’d have to agree not to discuss politics or contentious issues. One of my closest friends is far left on the spectrum; I can see her voting for Bernie or Buttigieg. Over the last four years or so we’ve had some ugly arguments, but eventually we learned the limits of what we can and cannot say to each other.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Lucidparadox

The moment Trump is gone, is the moment everything goes back to normal.

Nope.

It's not Donald Trump who is dividing the nation... no one man has that power. Blaming Trump is just an excuse. The real divide is much, much deeper.

I see it on here all the time. I'm not talking about the "Pit' threads... I see them too. That's pretty evenly divided between the left and right. No, I'm talking about the few threads that pop up from time to time, where someone is actually trying to have a decent conversation about an issue they care about. Some of them are in support of a policy Trump supports... and they are always attacked by the left. Always. Others are against a policy Trump supports. These are typically met with a few posts that politely counter the arguments in the OP, and it soon turns into a free-for-all.

The OP is correct that there are problems on both sides. I cannot deny that. However, the majority of the problems at this point in time are coming from the left. These 'arguments' are just that: not debate, but arguments. I don't want Obamacare... it took my insurance away and left me at the mercy of charity from the medical professionals. I don't want a Green New Deal... the home I live in was built by my Dad with his own hands. It is solid, nice, and pretty efficient. I do not want to see the memorial to a man I admire either bulldozed or redesigned because some politician thinks it's a good idea. I also love hamburgers... leave my hamburgers alone! I do not want an electric car... at least not right now. It limits my driving range, it is hard to find service for them, and I do not trust new technology initially because new technology has a history of being less than optimal until sufficient real-life testing under real conditions is achieved. I cannot be without transportation where I live.

These policies are what is dividing the nation. The mantra of the USA has always been "liberty and justice for all." Well, there is no liberty in telling me where I am to live or what I have to drive, or what I have to not eat. That's the opposite of liberty. There is no justice in the kinds of social justice demands that happen on a daily basis now, nor in the type of hearings we saw in the House Impeachment. That's the opposite of justice. And for all... well, I am a part of "all" and I am only now seeing anything good come my way after 8 years of indigence and misery.

No, Donald Trump is an excuse, not a reason. Were the President to be a conservative named Jehosophat Higgenbotham, Jehosophat Higgenbotham would be the excuse used.

You want to actually mend the divide? Try listening to those you may not agree with. Be the change you (claim to) want to see. That has worked throughout history; forcefully shouting down those you disagree with never has, at least not for long.

TheRedneck

Quoting because... Well said Redneck

originally posted by: Bluntone22 written off for civility.

civility should only be extended to the civilized.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
So I hear Vince Vaughn is catching heat from some people on the left because he had a civil conversation and a friendly handshake with the president.
I don’t get the mentality of anyone that would get pissed off by this.
There are pictures of Michael Moore and Sean penn all friendly with dictator Hugo Chavez but that’s not venom worthy I guess.

Vaughn is being written off for civility.
How can the divide we are facing be fixed if this action is going to far?

Is this acceptable behavior now?
I’m not pointing fingers at the left here they just happen to be the subject of the story trending right now.
Both side have jerks... no denying that.

This only affects people who care about celebrities and politics. I for one don't care who talks to the president or even who the president is. Same outcome regardless. Doesn't affect my day to day so therefore this is all the energy i'm giving this topic.

a reply to: Lucidparadox
Maybe normal for you but not for many of us. I HATE COMMUNISTS. Are you one?

originally posted by: jidnum

originally posted by: Bluntone22
So I hear Vince Vaughn is catching heat from some people on the left because he had a civil conversation and a friendly handshake with the president.
I don’t get the mentality of anyone that would get pissed off by this.
There are pictures of Michael Moore and Sean penn all friendly with dictator Hugo Chavez but that’s not venom worthy I guess.

Vaughn is being written off for civility.
How can the divide we are facing be fixed if this action is going to far?

Is this acceptable behavior now?
I’m not pointing fingers at the left here they just happen to be the subject of the story trending right now.
Both side have jerks... no denying that.

This only affects people who care about celebrities and politics. I for one don't care who talks to the president or even who the president is. Same outcome regardless. Doesn't affect my day to day so therefore this is all the energy i'm giving this topic.

Its actually the way leftists in Hollywood police each other. You go conservative, you get blackballed. I read a while back that Vaughn is conservative. It’s too bad Hollywood behaves this way. But if one thinks about Bernie Sanders campaign people talking about putting Trump supporters in gulags, this is what we are dealing with. Who else put people on gulags and labor camps!

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Lucidparadox

The moment Trump is gone, is the moment everything goes back to normal.

Nope.

It's not Donald Trump who is dividing the nation... no one man has that power. Blaming Trump is just an excuse. The real divide is much, much deeper.

So presumably I wont find a post of yours on ATS among the hundreds blaming Obama for doing so ?

Some of them are in support of a policy Trump supports... and they are always attacked by the left. Always. Others are against a policy Trump supports. These are typically met with a few posts that politely counter the arguments in the OP, and it soon turns into a free-for-all.

Can you provide a few examples here? Especially the part about Trump supporters on ATS typically being polite and focusing on the ball not the player, and non Trump supporters typically attacking.

The OP is correct that there are problems on both sides. I cannot deny that. However, the majority of the problems at this point in time are coming from the left.

These are your feelings.

I don't want Obamacare...

Valid, so you don't want it. That's fine. So since you don't want it, no one else gets it?
You are not ok with paying to help other Americans?
I am.

So now what?

it took my insurance away and left me at the mercy of charity from the medical professionals.

My insurance was ass before Obamacare and it's still ass.
Funny how it'll likely forever be that way too.

I do not want to see the memorial to a man I admire either bulldozed or redesigned because some politician thinks it's a good idea.

You can buy it and admire it as much as you like on your private property. I don't want to walk outside and see my tax dollars support displaying a memorial to a man who supported keeping people that look like me as second class citizens.

I do not want an electric car...

Don't buy one, but don't obstruct manufacturing for those that do want them.

These policies are what is dividing the nation.

The things you mentioned are not policies.

The mantra of the USA has always been "liberty and justice for all."

I think you'll need to add an asterisk there, especially for the justice part.

Well, there is no liberty in telling me where I am to live or what I have to drive, or what I have to not eat. That's the opposite of liberty.

So is anyone actually telling you this, or is this hyperbole?

There is no justice in the kinds of social justice demands that happen on a daily basis now

Provide a few examples?

No, Donald Trump is an excuse, not a reason. Were the President to be a conservative named Jehosophat Higgenbotham, Jehosophat Higgenbotham would be the excuse used.

And if it were a Democrat named Barack Obama that would be the excuse used. You can protest and say not and that's fine, but I'm old enough to know better.

You want to actually mend the divide? Try listening to those you may not agree with. Be the change you (claim to) want to see. That has worked throughout history; forcefully shouting down those you disagree with never has, at least not for long.

Some times its worth it to listen, others not so much.
A few people on twitter make a big deal over something stupid. A few people out of how many? An insignificant amount.
A few universities wont allow certain people to speak. A few out of how many? An insignificant amount.
Yet we act like we can't even go outside without being persecuted.



TheRedneck

Even boxers touch gloves before attempting to knock each other out.

I just don't understand what people find so abhorrent about trump.

He's a successful businessman and father, he fights for the American people and puts them before the international community and their globalist agenda.

By no means perfect but you would think by the rhetoric from the left that he was some kind of biblical demon. I'd rather someone fight for my kids future in the country i live than worry about the interests of international banking institutions and champagne socialists.