Democratic Establishment & MSM panic as Sanders surges into the lead in primary polls!

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: carewemust
Bernie never promised anything free. He promised a return for our taxes. Which we don’t get right now.

Really? You don't have roads? highways? Police & fire? Schools? A military? Food Stamps/Welfare?

If what you're getting at is the govt wastes money then hell yeah we're on the same page. But putting them in charge of MORE is the absolute opposite direction of fixing this.

a reply to: pexx421

Sanders doesn’t stand a chance against President Trump in an election

You know that to be true

He will never be President

originally posted by: proximo
a reply to: Waterglass

This thing about Bernie not being sleazy, are people not paying attention?

This is a guy who has 3 houses drives around a sports car and talks about how the rich is evil - yet appears to love material possessions.

Someone tell me how that is not sleazy?

He is also a guy that is promoting paying for all college, medical care, massive environmental spending and yet has to know none of that can actually be paid for. I know a ton of his followers are ignorant - but as a guy in the senate for many years he cannot be and has to know his proposals cannot be paid for.

Either he is making promises that if he actually tries to keep will annihilate the economy and he is fine with thousands and thousands dying from the depression they bring on - or he is fine about lying to the public to get elected. Either way makes him very sleazy in my book.

There’s lots of stuff we can’t pay for. We still wage war anyway. We still gave a massive tax break anyway, think we could afford that 5 trillion? We still expanded the military budget. We still gave Israel 30 billion. We still give massive subsidies to rich corporations. So, we can afford, apparently, whatever “it” is. We just choose not to. All we need to do is pull that funding from where it is now, unnecessarily inflating corporate profits.

Which, by the way, is the massive “stock boom!!’ Y’all all crow about. When you increase the price of something without increasing the value, it’s a bubble. We have stocks massively inflated even though their companies have NOT become more productive. As much as you all seem to like bubbles, no wonder you think trump is good for the economy. Sadly bubbles do not mean an economy is doing well. It means it’s heading for a bust.

originally posted by: jjkenobi

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: carewemust
Bernie never promised anything free. He promised a return for our taxes. Which we don’t get right now.

Really? You don't have roads? highways? Police & fire? Schools? A military? Food Stamps/Welfare?

If what you're getting at is the govt wastes money then hell yeah we're on the same page. But putting them in charge of MORE is the absolute opposite direction of fixing this.

We have underfunded, deteriorating infrastructure. Corrupt, problematic police force. A massively fraudulent and wasteful military. Underpaid teachers and a school system falling behind the rest of the world. A crippled welfare system that keeps folk in poverty rather than lifting them up. Sorry, but if the choices are money in the hands of govt, or in the hands of corporate vultures, I’ll take govt.

The only times our economy has actually grown in all metrics was after the new deal, and Bretton woods. Both times were created by govt, and fought by business. It lead to the creation and growth of the middle class, which didn’t exist before that. And since then the corporate sector and wealthy elite have been systematically dismantling it, and here we are now. Don’t know why y’all are so scared of us going back to what worked.

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
a reply to: pexx421

Sanders doesn’t stand a chance against President Trump in an election

You know that to be true

He will never be President

I know nothing of the sort. He’s got far more individual supporters than any other candidate. He would have beat trump last time, I expect he will win if he gets past the dnc this time.

a reply to: Breakthestreak

that is why his base will be extra angry this election as this is his last chance before drifting off to obscurity

a reply to: pexx421

the dnc is allready setting up the hatchet job on sanders again with the him and warren spat

www.bostonherald.com...

Would I like (Sanders) to be president? Yes. Do I think he’s electable? I don’t know,” Organschi mused. “That’s what I’m afraid of.”

and

But amid the campaign rally loyalists festooned with “Bernie” stickers and “Bernie Beats Trump” pins are some who say they’re comfortable voting for Sanders in the upcoming primaries, but question whether he has what it takes to go all the way in the general election. “That’s really the question, isn’t it?” said Shawnda Lapointe of Sanford, Maine, adding, “He has my vote in the ideal world.”

but the question is even if the DNC will allow him to unseat biden as the chosen one this cycle like he was tossed under the bus for Hillary last time

www.thedailybeast.com...

Former President Barack Obama’s top lieutenants are eager to poke every conceivable hole in Bernie Sanders’ resurgent bid for the Democratic nomination. But ask about a coordinated effort to stop his ascending campaign and you’ll get crickets. Less than a month before voting begins, Obama has declined to offer a preferred pick to take on President Trump in 2020, only occasionally waxing philosophical about the perils of moving too far left and reminding voters to be “rooted in reality” when exploring nominee options. But as Sanders gained new flashes of traction in recent weeks, the former president’s lack of official guidance to halt his momentum, and the scattering of his inner circle to rival campaigns, have hampered any meaningful NeverBernie movement.

so then there is this as well plus obama's warning to dems to not go too far left which would seem to be aimed at a sanders and warren

www.cnbc.com...

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

I would say Bernie Sanders can’t beat President Trump in 2020. But seeing as how Trump has already proved anything is possible in politics, let’s just say it’s very unlikely. Others disagree. Vox’s Matt Yglesias argued on Wednesday that Sanders can unify the Democratic Party and beat Trump. It's a debate worthy of consideration. Were Elizabeth Warren's progressive supporters to unify behind Sanders, he would be the easy front-runner for the Democratic mantle. But let’s imagine we’re now in the summer and Sanders has just secured the delegates he needs for the nomination. Suddenly, the campaign objective shifts from appealing to the very small number of Democratic loyalists who vote in primaries to securing independents and disaffected Republicans. First issue: How does Sanders sell his plans to increase spending by tens of trillions of dollars a year? Sanders says he'll just get the rich to pay more. But that claim belies the fact that America's income tax system is already one of the most progressive. And Sanders necessarily assumes that the rich will keep working and managing their affairs in the same way even if they face newly punitive tax rates on their incomes and estates. In the end, math means Sanders will either have to abandon the majority of his spending commitments or raise taxes sharply on the middle class. Thus follow the obvious Trump campaign ads framing Sanders as the Titanic of fiscal credibility.

trump would enjoy debating Bernie on stage so id see it if he gets nomination as a ballance between people worried about his policies and those worried about trump et all

www.usatoday.com...

USA TODAY Poll: Impeached or not, Trump leads his Democratic rivals for another term

from last December but an interesting read on incumbent trumps advantages

www.foxbusiness.com... odds for the nomination

Former vice president Joe Biden has 9-4 odds to win the Democratic nomination Sen. Bernie Sanders, D-Vt., has 9-4 odds to win the Democratic nomination Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., has 5-1 odds to win the Democratic nomination Former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg has 7-1 odds to win the Democratic nomination South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg has 9-1 odds to win the Democratic nomination

but they also say president trump is on track to win re election against any of them least per the bookies

Time will tell. I’m not terribly worried about it. Either Bernie will win the dnc and then the presidency, or Biden will win the dnc and trump the election. Either way, not something I haven’t been through before. Life will go on, or it won’t. Won’t change an iota on a universal scale, and hopefully whatever damage anyone does will be after my lifetime, and I’ll have set my kids up well enough to weather the storm.

originally posted by: pexx421
Middle class is having the ability to own a home or 3, and cars too. Middle class starts around 150k a year.

Maybe in California, where childish fairy tale policies have driven the cost of living through the roof. Middle class in a lot of other states is much lower. And one home is more than enough. You sound like a spoiled rich kid with no knowledge of the real world.

a reply to: face23785

You’re wrong. You are just mistaken over what middle class means. But that’s understandable because it’s now almost disappearing in the us. You, me, most of us here are all working poor. We are several paychecks away from loosing the house, car, etc. We own almost nothing, and what we do own is generally outweighed by what we owe. That’s about 70% of the country.

Middle class is when you are financially secure. You can miss a few years work and still be ok. You don’t have to weigh how much it’ll cost before you go to the doctor. You can pretty much buy most anything you want. For most Americans, that’s around $80k a year, which is $160k per per household. Sorry, I should have clarified household earlier.

a reply to: pexx421

That's what middle class is to you, a definition you made up to fit your agenda. That's not what it means to the rest of the country. And again, your numbers are generalized and don't take cost-of-living into account, which varies by state. You should do some research on this subject before you post on it again, you don't even know the basics.

a reply to: face23785

It was a general statement. I’m aware of all the factors. What would you consider middle class. And tell us without being a dick, that’s uncalled for, though not unexpected here.

a reply to: pexx421

You're aware you were making false claims? That's rather more being a dick than calling out such false claims, don't you think? It doesn't even make sense as a general statement. Cost of living is only that high in a few states.

To answer your question, I don't make up my own definitions of words or phrases. If everyone gets their own definition, how the # would you have a meaningful conversation about anything? According to CNBC, over 50% of Americans are middle class. 70% of the country is not "working poor." You were wrong. I'll accept your apology.

ETA: Here's what middle class households earn by state. You'll note most of them start in the 40s and 50s, some even in the 30s. They range up into figures like you were talking about, but the higher you go the fewer people are in that income bracket. Most middle class clearly earn much less than what you were saying. The common definition by economists appears to be households that earn between 2/3rds and twice the median income in that state. And again, the higher you go, the fewer people are at that income level, so most are going to be on the lower end, closer to 2/3rds, than there will be closer to twice the median income.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: pexx421

You're aware you were making false claims? That's rather more being a dick than calling out such false claims, don't you think? It doesn't even make sense as a general statement. Cost of living is only that high in a few states.

To answer your question, I don't make up my own definitions of words or phrases. If everyone gets their own definition, how the # would you have a meaningful conversation about anything? According to CNBC, over 50% of Americans are middle class. 70% of the country is not "working poor." You were wrong. I'll accept your apology.

ETA: Here's what middle class households earn by state. You'll note most of them start in the 40s and 50s, some even in the 30s. They range up into figures like you were talking about, but the higher you go the fewer people are in that income bracket. Most middle class clearly earn much less than what you were saying. The common definition by economists appears to be households that earn between 2/3rds and twice the median income in that state. And again, the higher you go, the fewer people are at that income level, so most are going to be on the lower end, closer to 2/3rds, than there will be closer to twice the median income.

No critical thinking at all, eh? 60% of Americans can’t come up with $490 in an emergency, and you think the top 10% of those are middle class? You think that people making 2/3 the median income are middle class? Wow. New Orleans folk will be surprised, that’s $15k a year for them. And 19k for the national average. So, apparently you think people making $10 an hour are middle class. And $7 an hour in New Orleans. Oh, sorry you said by state. That’s $8 an hour for Louisiana. That’s not working poor to you? Then we have vastly different definitions of poor.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: pexx421

You're aware you were making false claims? That's rather more being a dick than calling out such false claims, don't you think? It doesn't even make sense as a general statement. Cost of living is only that high in a few states.

To answer your question, I don't make up my own definitions of words or phrases. If everyone gets their own definition, how the # would you have a meaningful conversation about anything? According to CNBC, over 50% of Americans are middle class. 70% of the country is not "working poor." You were wrong. I'll accept your apology.

ETA: Here's what middle class households earn by state. You'll note most of them start in the 40s and 50s, some even in the 30s. They range up into figures like you were talking about, but the higher you go the fewer people are in that income bracket. Most middle class clearly earn much less than what you were saying. The common definition by economists appears to be households that earn between 2/3rds and twice the median income in that state. And again, the higher you go, the fewer people are at that income level, so most are going to be on the lower end, closer to 2/3rds, than there will be closer to twice the median income.

No critical thinking at all, eh? 60% of Americans can’t come up with $490 in an emergency, and you think the top 10% of those are middle class? You think that people making 2/3 the median income are middle class? Wow. New Orleans folk will be surprised, that’s $15k a year for them. And 19k for the national average. So, apparently you think people making $10 an hour are middle class. And $7 an hour in New Orleans. Oh, sorry you said by state. That’s $8 an hour for Louisiana. That’s not working poor to you? Then we have vastly different definitions of poor.

Those income numbers are all wrong.

Median household income in New Orleans is $40K per year. 2/3rds of that is $26.6K a year, not $15K. For comparison, I live in an area of Pennsylvania that has a very similar median household income, about $45K a year. I live comfortably with my girlfriend on $25K a year.

Median household income in the United States is about $62K a year. 2/3rds of that is a little over $40K, over twice what you said it is.

I don't know where you got those numbers. I hope you didn't just make them up. They're factually wrong though. I will give you one more chance to make an honest/accurate post. If you fail to do so, I move on. I won't spend all day going back and forth with someone who is either grossly uninformed or is straight up lying. You've been proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's time to just be an adult and admit it.

Again, it sounds like you live in a place with sky-high cost of living and seem to think the entire country is like that. It's not.

So, just to clarify. MSNBC (and you, apparently) think that people making between $8 and $20 an hour in Louisiana (and $10-$25 nationally) are middle class. Hm. Guess that makes me the wealthy elite. No wonder you’re all so scared of Bernie when he talks about the rich. Y’all must think he means everyone making over $30 an hour. Hm.

I got those numbers because household income generally Refers to 2 working adults. So you divide that household income number by half and there you have the average of both adults. I’m sure you knew that.

originally posted by: pexx421
So, just to clarify. MSNBC (and you, apparently) think that people making between $8 and $20 an hour in Louisiana (and $10-$25 nationally) are middle class. Hm. Guess that makes me the wealthy elite. No wonder you’re all so scared of Bernie when he talks about the rich. Y’all must think he means everyone making over $30 an hour. Hm.

Seriously, where are you getting those numbers? Do you have a calculator handy? I already gave you the numbers you have to work with. The median household income in the US is $62,000 a year. Multiply that by .66, that's where they say middle class starts. You'll get $41,540. Divide that by 52, you'll get $799. That's the weekly income. Assuming they work 40 hours a week, that's $20 an hour. That's where they say middle class STARTS, nationally. It varies widely by state and city.

Since you apparently can't be bothered to actually look at anything:

Alabama

2-person family middle-class income range: $35,929.42 to $107,252

3-person family middle-class income range: $40,451.92 to $120,752

4-person family middle-class income range: $49,182.69 to $146,814


Alaska

2-person family middle-class income range: $56,614.33 to $168,998

3-person family middle-class income range: $57,885.32 to $172,792

4-person family middle-class income range: $68,222.75 to $203,650


Arizona

2-person family middle-class income range: $40,529.64 to $120,984

3-person family middle-class income range: $43,012.66 to $128,396

4-person family middle-class income range: $50,500.58 to $150,748


Arkansas

2-person family middle-class income range: $34,045.38 to $101,628

3-person family middle-class income range: $37,786.66 to $112,796

4-person family middle-class income range: $43,702.76 to $130,456


California

2-person family middle-class income range: $47,807.85 to $142,710

3-person family middle-class income range: $51,639.58 to $154,148

4-person family middle-class income range: $59,189.81 to $176,686


Colorado

2-person family middle-class income range: $49,595.41 to $148,046

3-person family middle-class income range: $54,674.01 to $163,206

4-person family middle-class income range: $64,014.48 to $191,088


Connecticut

2-person family middle-class income range: $54,226.45 to $161,870

3-person family middle-class income range: $64,114.98 to $191,388

4-person family middle-class income range: $77,674.44 to $231,864


Delaware

2-person family middle-class income range: $44,992.51 to $134,306

3-person family middle-class income range: $53,631.49 to $160,094

4-person family middle-class income range: $63,592.38 to $189,828


Florida

2-person family middle-class income range: $37,972.92 to $113,352

3-person family middle-class income range: $41,530.62 to $123,972

4-person family middle-class income range: $49,360.24 to $147,344


Georgia

2-person family middle-class income range: $39,065.69 to $116,614

3-person family middle-class income range: $43,606.28 to $130,168

4-person family middle-class income range: $51,058.02 to $152,412


Hawaii

2-person family middle-class income range: $49,699.26 to $148,356

3-person family middle-class income range: $58,967.37 to $176,022

4-person family middle-class income range: $66,070.04 to $197,224


Idaho

2-person family middle-class income range: $38,241.59 to $114,154

3-person family middle-class income range: $41,720.23 to $124,538

4-person family middle-class income range: $47,115.74 to $140,644


Illinois

2-person family middle-class income range: $45,137.90 to $134,740

3-person family middle-class income range: $52,454.97 to $156,582

4-person family middle-class income range: $62,440.65 to $186,390


Indiana

2-person family middle-class income range: $39,184.95 to $116,970

3-person family middle-class income range: $45,338.23 to $135,338

4-person family middle-class income range: $53,330.66 to $159,196


Iowa

2-person family middle-class income range: $43,379.15 to $129,490

3-person family middle-class income range: $49,561.24 to $147,944

4-person family middle-class income range: $58,965.36 to $176,016


Kansas

2-person family middle-class income range: $42,928.91 to $128,146

3-person family middle-class income range: $48,063.12 to $143,472

4-person family middle-class income range: $56,064.93 to $167,358


Kentucky

2-person family middle-class income range: $34,839.33 to $103,998

3-person family middle-class income range: $41,035.49 to $122,494

4-person family middle-class income range: $50,071.78 to $149,468


Louisiana

2-person family middle-class income range: $35,277.51 to $105,306

3-person family middle-class income range: $40,907.52 to $122,112

4-person family middle-class income range: $51,827.18 to $154,708


Maine

2-person family middle-class income range: $40,313.90 to $120,340

3-person family middle-class income range: $48,328.44 to $144,264

4-person family middle-class income range: $57,146.98 to $170,588


Maryland

2-person family middle-class income range: $55,934.28 to $166,968

3-person family middle-class income range: $65,206.41 to $194,646

4-person family middle-class income range: $77,352.17 to $230,902


Massachusetts

2-person family middle-class income range: $52,135.38 to $155,628

3-person family middle-class income range: $64,847.96 to $193,576

4-person family middle-class income range: $80,228.48 to $239,488


Michigan

2-person family middle-class income range: $39,398.68 to $117,608

3-person family middle-class income range: $46,952.93 to $140,158

4-person family middle-class income range: $57,080.65 to $170,390


Minnesota

2-person family middle-class income range: $48,400.80 to $144,480

3-person family middle-class income range: $58,084.31 to $173,386

4-person family middle-class income range: $69,698.09 to $208,054


Mississippi

2-person family middle-class income range: $32,516.44 to $97,064

3-person family middle-class income range: $34,916.38 to $104,228

4-person family middle-class income range: $43,106.46 to 128,676


Missouri

2-person family middle-class income range: $38,656.32 to $115,392

3-person family middle-class income range: $45,149.96 to $134,776

4-person family middle-class income range: $53,930.98 to $160,988


Montana

2-person family middle-class income range: $40,257.62 to $120,172

3-person family middle-class income range: $44,912.78 to $134,068

4-person family middle-class income range: $54,218.41 to $161,846


Nebraska

2-person family middle-class income range: $43,919.84 to $131,104

3-person family middle-class income range: $49,134.45 to $146,670

4-person family middle-class income range: $57,672,26 to $172,156


Nevada

2-person family middle-class income range: $40,967.15 to $122,290

3-person family middle-class income range: $43,722.86 to $130,516

4-person family middle-class income range: $51,165.22 to $152,732


New Hampshire

2-person family middle-class income range: $50,038.95 to $149,370

3-person family middle-class income range: $60,375.04 to $180,224

4-person family middle-class income range: $73,400.51 to $219,106


New Jersey

2-person family middle-class income range: $52,151.46 to $155,676

3-person family middle-class income range: $65,418.80 to $195,280

4-person family middle-class income range: $79,354.80 to $236,880


New Mexico

2-person family middle-class income range: $37,747.80 to $112,680

3-person family middle-class income range: $36,577.31 to $109,186

4-person family middle-class income range: $42,926.90 to $128,140


New York

2-person family middle-class income range: $44,750.64 to $133,584

3-person family middle-class income range: $52,673.39 to $157,234

4-person family middle-class income range: $64,279.80 to $191,880


North Carolina

2-person family middle-class income range: $38,171.91 to $113,946

3-person family middle-class income range: $42,819.70 to $127,820

4-person family middle-class income range: $51,404.41 to $153,446


North Dakota

2-person family middle-class income range: $48,216.55 to $143,930

3-person family middle-class income range: $54,720.91 to $163,346

4-person family middle-class income range: $65,166.88 to $194,528


Ohio

2-person family middle-class income range: $39,546.08 to $118,048

3-person family middle-class income range: $46,263.50 to $138,100

4-person family middle-class income range: $56,510.48 to $168,688