active suppression for film(35mm)

So im not sure if this is the right area but here we go,


i know for a fact that during the late 90's and 2000's at certain DoD and contractor sites if you took a picture of them(even in perfect shooting conditions and film) the structures would not show up looking like an underexposed area of the frame and then the surrounding area looked like a light snow had fallen.

the strange thing is that even with color high speed film they would always come out black and white.

there is even an example of this in the movie mirage men when they are talking about the monzonnno storage area.

obviously something effected this film, i think it was some sort of laser or some sort of light that is always on that effects film and maybe digital but our eyes cant see.

how would YOU make an active denial photo system?

a reply to: penroc3

sigh - citations required

a reply to: penroc3

Why, what purpose would this have.. there are many and better options to share secret information.

Cameras capture a range of visible and invisible light like IR and UV, so this concept of an active denial system employed to stop photography is likely to have been used especially by military. Perhaps a LASER array flooding the target area with a certain frequency of light, or multiple frequencies could cause an area captured on film or digital sensors to be masked over, or even holography of an area masked by the deception which any camera can't penetrate but will record the desired mask?

Scientific ingenuity especially by military and their enormous budgets can solve any problem, and they have.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

IMHO a room full of dedicated Teenagers could do the same thing with Online resources and a few bucks.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Extremely good lenses like Leica filter out all non visible light. This is done to minimize the blurring effects of wave length dispersion.

originally posted by: graysquirrel
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Extremely good lenses like Leica filter out all non visible light. This is done to minimize the blurring effects of wave length dispersion.

Yes. But this has me wondering.. Lets say this is true, that the US military or other can deny photography in some area where they don't want a place or thing to be photographed. Some form of EM radiation or magnetic field or frequencies could do it even using frequencies beyond the light spectrum. Just speculating of course.

One way to find out would be to call someone and ask (if it isn't classified) say at Kirtland AFB or Sandia labs etc.. Just a friendly inquiry.

I have seen a similar affect in my work with costumes. It is the fact that all cameras see in ways we don’t. When trying to match fabric to other fabric and to makeup, you have to take pictures in several lighting conditions to be sure the color actually matches.

Also there is the reflective clothing problem. A reflective strip can be covered with another fabric making it unnoticeable and if a flash is used, the result is so bright that the rest of the photo is washed out. I have noticed this same affect with zeolite. Zeolite is used in water softeners and the physical characteristics of it being tiny translucent spheres make even looking at it in sunlight difficult because it reflects the sunlight at you in different ways. It will shimmer and shine in very small amounts on the ground.

Using these affects in some sort of paint would confuse the automatic settings in digital cameras and affect the settings necessary for film cameras in ways not noticeable to the camera operator. This could be used to make something resistant to photography. It would be similar to that magnetite radar absorbing paint used on airplanes and bridges but work on and near visible light wavelengths.

Also there are whiteners in some detergents that change UV light to visible light. This could also be used to change the necessary settings to take a photo.

originally posted by: penroc3
i know for a fact

Pretty much the most unscientific statement that could ever be used to start a science thread.

a reply to: CraftBuilder

you can watch miragemen and see the effect for your self and i have seen it at a place in southern cali when admittedly i was looking for the anthill and as well as other places. there are allot of orange orbs seen in southern cali so i was going around and using some basic research and google maps to find the locations that were edited out to pick my stake outs.

there were a few buildings that when i snapped a few pics just werent there in any thing close to clarity


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Yes although as already stated, citation or evidence required. Film scanning is pretty accessible today, it can be done by a local shop or by yourself for as cheap as $40 for a scanner (Albeit crappy)

So Throw up some of these said photographs.

Now the other thing is that Leica lenses are well designed, they don't have some magical or extra filtering of wavelengths outside that of the optical range to prevent aberration. Why? well UV is largely filtered out depending upon the amount of humidity in the air, the haze is readily removed by the addition of a primary filter, which was common practice during the film era to have a set of filters depending upon conditions. Largely coatings on the glass have been the only thing that has changed through the years. IR photography is also a thing, and many lenses have markings for the difference in DOF when shooting on IR sensitive film.

The key is completely design coupled with very high quality glass.

Its kind of like when in the 70s/80s Vivitar stormed onto the scene, producing their Series 1 lenses. The fun thing about those was they were some of the first lenses designed using computers to take care of the optical modelling. The resulting designs where a bit different from the norm but where able to produce high quality lenses in comparison to OEM lenses from Nikon or Cannon for example, while keeping costs low.

They did obviously get ahead of themselves and fold in the 90s as they reduced quality and didn't keep up... but still one of their 105mm Macro lenses is still considered one of the sharpest lenses in the world.

Similarly the old Konica Hexannon 50mm lenses were very well designed and ridiculously sharp wide open.



Anyway... on a optical area denial in terms of photography, you could easily achieve this via UV and high intensity IR lamps that shine on a target. It wouldn't be visible to the eye, but would cause some level of extra exposure to the film, depending upon the distance and atmospheric conditions.

a reply to: ErosA433

yeah but im not going to do that, it is in miragemen and that is online already.

it was the weapons storage area.

i do agree with your IR/UV light sources to fuzz the pic out