Young teens ambush Ohio Mall

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: jidnum
a reply to: JAGStorm

Terrible parenting. I blame the parents 100%

Are you a parent by any chance ? If you are, can you actually say your children were always little angels because of your superior parenting ?

I’ve known a lot of different families in my life and many with multiple children. The parents all loved each of their children equally and disciplined them similarly. If it is the parenting, why is it that so often in these families there is one or maybe a couple of “wild childs”. These children were raised exactly the same.. yet are more daring and prone to ignore the rules and expectations.

I think it is really unfair to blame parenting 100% for a child’s misconduct.. as many of these children will outgrow foolish ways.

How many here on ATS pulled all sorts of pranks as kids ? Did they have horrible parents?

I say it's 100% parenting because parents now days do not raise kids, they allow the internet to do so. I never had the internet growing up until I was about 13 (1993) but because I was actually raised by my parents and no social media, I knew better.

Not to mention what these kids did isn't what normal "wild childs" do. Are you telling me you rallied with all your friends and classmates to go take over a mall and hurt people? naaaaaaah no way, it was never to this extent. It was always that one bad apple who would fight and steal but we always knew better because we had parents who raised us.

Ya we did dumb stuff but not this dumb.

a reply to: jidnum

Not to mention what these kids did isn't what normal "wild childs" do. Are you telling me you rallied with all your friends and classmates to go take over a mall and hurt people? naaaaaaah no way, it was never to this extent. It was always that one bad apple who would fight and steal but we always knew better because we had parents who raised us. Ya we did dumb stuff but not this dumb.

yeah.. you make solid points I have to agree with. I do think it is social media and a growing culture of aggressive disrespect that has lead these children to do this. I guess I just have an issue with parents being blamed 100% because I believe some parents try so hard but their children care more about pleasing peers than pleasing parents.

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: jidnum
a reply to: JAGStorm

Terrible parenting. I blame the parents 100%

Are you a parent by any chance ? If you are, can you actually say your children were always little angels because of your superior parenting ?

I’ve known a lot of different families in my life and many with multiple children. The parents all loved each of their children equally and disciplined them similarly. If it is the parenting, why is it that so often in these families there is one or maybe a couple of “wild childs”. These children were raised exactly the same.. yet are more daring and prone to ignore the rules and expectations.

I think it is really unfair to blame parenting 100% for a child’s misconduct.. as many of these children will outgrow foolish ways.

How many here on ATS pulled all sorts of pranks as kids ? Did they have horrible parents?

Yeah I raised 3 kids, and i can guarantee you they wouldnt have done ANYTHING like this, it is 100% parenting full stop.

Sure, we did lots of stuff as kids, pulled lots of pranks, but we would never steal, destroy, wreak havok en masse, and assault people at random.

This was not a prank, this was criminal behavior.

originally posted by: SailorJerry

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: jidnum
a reply to: JAGStorm

Terrible parenting. I blame the parents 100%

Are you a parent by any chance ? If you are, can you actually say your children were always little angels because of your superior parenting ?

I’ve known a lot of different families in my life and many with multiple children. The parents all loved each of their children equally and disciplined them similarly. If it is the parenting, why is it that so often in these families there is one or maybe a couple of “wild childs”. These children were raised exactly the same.. yet are more daring and prone to ignore the rules and expectations.

I think it is really unfair to blame parenting 100% for a child’s misconduct.. as many of these children will outgrow foolish ways.

How many here on ATS pulled all sorts of pranks as kids ? Did they have horrible parents?

Yeah I raised 3 kids, and i can guarantee you they wouldnt have done ANYTHING like this, it is 100% parenting full stop.

Sure, we did lots of stuff as kids, pulled lots of pranks, but we would never steal, destroy, wreak havok en masse, and assault people at random.

This was not a prank, this was criminal behavior.

You’re right.. the level of this activity is seriously criminal and can’t be compared to silly pranks.. though I have known of silly pranks pulled by relatively good kids that ended tragically in someone’s death due to something going horribly wrong. Don’t blame the parents for that..

I don't see the relevance in mentioning anything about it.

ok

originally posted by: SailorJerry

originally posted by: Sheye

originally posted by: jidnum
a reply to: JAGStorm

Terrible parenting. I blame the parents 100%

Are you a parent by any chance ? If you are, can you actually say your children were always little angels because of your superior parenting ?

I’ve known a lot of different families in my life and many with multiple children. The parents all loved each of their children equally and disciplined them similarly. If it is the parenting, why is it that so often in these families there is one or maybe a couple of “wild childs”. These children were raised exactly the same.. yet are more daring and prone to ignore the rules and expectations.

I think it is really unfair to blame parenting 100% for a child’s misconduct.. as many of these children will outgrow foolish ways.

How many here on ATS pulled all sorts of pranks as kids ? Did they have horrible parents?

Yeah I raised 3 kids, and i can guarantee you they wouldnt have done ANYTHING like this, it is 100% parenting full stop.

Sure, we did lots of stuff as kids, pulled lots of pranks, but we would never steal, destroy, wreak havok en masse, and assault people at random.

This was not a prank, this was criminal behavior.

Mix in a lot of mob mentality too. People will do things in a mob situation, they might not do on their own. They can all still walk the plank though!!

a reply to: jidnum
I agree with that, kids trying to raise kids is another.

a reply to: Sheye

I think it is really unfair to blame parenting 100% for a child’s misconduct.. as many of these children will outgrow foolish ways.

It is absolutely 100% parenting. Absolutely.

My father got sick when I was 16 (and by "sick," I mean unable to parent; he was pretty much bedridden and partially paralyzed). I went from a "good boy" to a "hellion" almost overnight (imagine a cross between Fonzie and Riff from West Side Story). My mother couldn't control me alone.

Luckily, the lessons my father instilled in me as a youth won out in the end and I returned to the straight and narrow. Had I never known my father, my life would certainly be much different than it is today. I had way too much "wild child" in me.

All children are different... my son is nothing like my daughter, and I raised him differently than I did my daughter. They are born with different personalities. Sometimes those personalities do not respond to a particular style of parenting the way others do. "Good parenting" is not a step-by-step, formalized algorithm... it is doing what is best for the child, based on what that child is doing and saying, and it is not treating all children the same. Each child is unique and needs a unique style of teaching. The parent's job is to find out what works and do it, not follow some "parenting manual."

The final judgement is how the kid turned out, not what steps were tried.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Luckily, the lessons my father instilled in me as a youth won out in the end and I returned to the straight and narrow. Had I never known my father, my life would certainly be much different than it is today. I had way too much "wild child" in me.

So in essence you are saying your mother was incapable of being a good parent... and all the wild child trouble you got into .. others would most likely blame lack of parenting 100 %.

Yes.. there are many single parents home today and not by choice.. are we blaming the single parents who can’t control their culturally brainwashed children into not being hoodlums.

Also , there have been many wild children who never had fathers that gave them important life lessons, who have broken away from bad behaviour when they matured. Adults who choose to do better after a particular wild youth often do so because of their own merit.

The final judgement is how the kid turned out, not what steps were tried.

There are also many children who grow into fine ,compassionate, loving adults, despite having horrendous parenting or none at all.

Sorry.. just don’t agree it’s 100 % parenting for these reasons.

a reply to: Sheye

So in essence you are saying your mother was incapable of being a good parent... and all the wild child trouble you got into .. others would most likely blame lack of parenting 100 %.

No, I am saying that my mother wasn't able to control me alone. She did the best she could do, and in the end, maybe it was her teaching that caused me to remember my earlier years. My sister didn't go through all of that, and she was essentially raised by a single parent (she was 8 when my father got sick).

My point is that there is no one single algorithm that makes for "good parenting." It is quite difficult for a single parent, of either gender, to manage parenting alone. It takes two... and that's why we have a society based around marriage. Parenting is not meant to be a solo profession; it really needs two people who complement each other.

If you will look back at my other posts, you will find a proposal I made that would likely have helped my mother... military-style boot camps geared toward children who the parents have lost control of. I will admit I was quite the handful... and likely would have benefited in the long run by such an environment (not that I have many complaints about how I turned out in the end). If society has any place in the problems we are experiencing with out-of-control children, it is to complement the parents when a child is a little too much or the parents can't figure out how to control them. That's not "bad parenting" as much as it is irreconcilable personality conflicts between the parents' abilities and the child's needs.

The thing is that this problem is growing. At my wildest, I would not have participated in taking over a mall like this. That means the parents are today becoming less effective than in the past. I attribute a lot of that to single parenting, and if we as a society want to help correct this problem, we have to give parents the assistance they need when they need it.

Saying that the problem is due to parenting issues is not the same as accusing the parents of incompetence, any more than saying that a single cop caught in the open by a gang of 50 armed thugs is guilty of being a bad cop. That cop just needs backup... and so do parents sometimes. We can either send the cop backup, or we can sit around and try to figure out what he could have done differently and whether he should have been a cop in the first place. The former choice might help him survive the attack and arrest the thugs; the latter will get him killed and ensure the thugs go free to hurt someone else.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I often deal with young people both in my job and with my community work. I find it interesting when some children with lousy parents, do everything in their power to try to be perfect, when the parent doesn't give a damn, and a child that is given everything, is hell on wheels, and shows nothing but contempt for the generous, loving parent.

I don't have an answer, but I agree that parenting alone is not the reason for why some of these children are off the rails.

I also agree with boarding school as an option for some. One thing my children would and will tell you, is that I was, cut in stone, consistent. There was never any doubt about what was expected of them, and there were consequences that fit the crime if the rules were broken.

My nephew had it in his head that his friends were God, and he would take a risk every time his friends would decide to do something that he knew was wrong, and would do it anyway. It took boarding school and taking down his best friend to fix his biggest problem. For the record, I took his friend down with the help and permission of his mother. Both of those bad ass boys are grown with children of their own, and I am so proud of the fathers they have turned out to be. Both are single parents. They used to say to each other, "You don't want to play with Big Auntie, because Big Auntie don't play, and, Big Auntie will make you walk the chalk line." Now they teasingly tell that to "their" children.

a reply to: TheRedneck

My point is that there is no one single algorithm that makes for "good parenting." It is quite difficult for a single parent, of either gender, to manage parenting alone. It takes two... and that's why we have a society based around marriage. Parenting is not meant to be a solo profession; it really needs two people who complement each other.

This ^^^ I agree with 100 %... It is best to be in a loving relationship to raise children together.
BUT..

I do know of single mothers who chose to leave their partner due to continued conflict that they felt was not healthy for their child. These children blossomed and grew up to be very fine adults with only a loving mom to raise them , with occasional visits from dad.

Saying that the problem is due to parenting issues is not the same as accusing the parents of incompetence, any more than saying that a single cop caught in the open by a gang of 50 armed thugs is guilty of being a bad cop. That cop just needs backup... and so do parents sometimes. We can either send the cop backup, or we can sit around and try to figure out what he could have done differently and whether he should have been a cop in the first place. The former choice might help him survive the attack and arrest the thugs; the latter will get him killed and ensure the thugs go free to hurt someone else.

Thank you for this ^^^. I’m happy you are not accusing the parents of incompetence. It’s so difficult being a parent at times, especially with some children and like you said they need support more than they need criticism.

I do also think this mall behaviour is a sign of our times, and how culture has turned towards violence to try and solve problems. Think Soros and Antifa and the whole mob mentality of protests. The air is ripe with dissent and it is the young people that the leaders of these groups try to influence.

Sad times indeed and if Trump wins again, you can expect to see worse.😕

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Consistency is indeed a huge part of the equation. Children learn through repetition. If something is not OK now, but is then OK later, it sends mixed signals that the child doesn't know how to follow.

But... consistency must be carried through the schools as well, and that is a HUGE part of the problem!

My rule at home was simple when it came to school behavior. Do as you are told, and if you get a spanking at school (I had signed the papers to allow that already) you would get a worse one when you got home. Well, sure enough, one day my son came home scared half to death. He finally confessed that he had gotten a spanking in school, almost in tears.

I said, "You know what that means."

He just nodded, then added, "But Daddy, I didn't do anything wrong!"

When I asked him what he got the spanking for, he told me what had happened. He was in the boys bathroom and a bunch of bullies tried to shove his head in the toilet. My son fought back, and elbowed one of them enough that he left the bathroom crying. I asked who it was, and sure enough, the last names corresponded to the last names of the bullies when I went to school there. Apples don't fall far from the tree.

So I explained to him that if he was telling me the truth, he would be off the hook because the school was in the wrong. But I also explained that if he was lying to me, it would be three times as bad the next day.

The next day I went to see the principal. I asked her what had happened, and she told me the exact same story my son had! So I asked why he had gotten a spanking for defending himself, and she responded that it was school policy to either suspend or spank all involved parties. I hit the roof! By the time I got through cussing her out and chewing her a couple new orifices, SHE was the one with tears in her eyes. I then demanded that she call my son in and apologize to him on the spot. She complied. You should have seen his eyes when she admitted to him that she was in the wrong and she should not have spanked him!

When he left, I looked her square in the eyes and said something similar to the following:

"You're off the hook for now. But if you EVER punish my son for defending himself again, I will be back and next time I am just liable to drag YOUR ass outside and show you what it feels like to get spanked for no good reason in front of your whole school. And if you want to call the cops in over that, I'll beat their butts along with you! NO ONE does that to my kid while I breathe. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?"

I never had that problem again.

The schools have got to start working with parents instead of thinking they own those kids. That principal caused me to have to be inconsistent with my son. There's a little more to teaching children than following some manual put out by a bunch of politicians who have never raised a child... there's communicating with parents and practicing fairness, which is not always "by the book."

TheRedneck

a reply to: Sheye

I do know of single mothers who chose to leave their partner due to continued conflict that they felt was not healthy for their child. These children blossomed and grew up to be very fine adults with only a loving mom to raise them , with occasional visits from dad.

Oh, it is quite possible for a single parent to raise a healthy, well-adjusted child. It's harder than with a partner, yes, but still very possible. I hope you didn't think I was implying otherwise.

I’m happy you are not accusing the parents of incompetence. It’s so difficult being a parent at times, especially with some children and like you said they need support more than they need criticism.

Oh, they do need constructive criticism... what they don't need is condemnation.

I do also think this mall behaviour is a sign of our times, and how culture has turned towards violence to try and solve problems. Think Soros and Antifa and the whole mob mentality of protests. The air is ripe with dissent and it is the young people that the leaders of these groups try to influence.

No doubt that is a large part of it, as is social media. Social media allows the worst children to broadcast how they get away with things, and that sends a message to other children that they can try it as well. How many times has a video of kids ransacking a store for loot after overwhelming it appeared on Facebook? I have seen several, and I avoid Facebook like the plague it is.

These social media sites need to start taking responsibility for what is posted. I know they can't review every video that comes in, but when one is posted that clearly shows illegal activity, the police need to be notified, the video needs to be removed, and the account holder needs to be banned. They won't do that by themselves; it will take enforced Federal legislation to accomplish that task.

Sad times indeed and if Trump wins again, you can expect to see worse.

Trump isn't causing this escalation... if anyone is causing it, it is the people who are so overtly anti-Trump. You mentioned Soros and Antifa... those are not Trump's support base.

The problem is that we have, as a scciety, been far too lax on incidents in the past. If someone were to yank a hat off another person's head in full view of a cop, I would be as upset with the cop as I was with the perpetrator if he didn't act. Refusal to act in such a case is an invitation for the perpetrator, child or adult, to do the same thing again and move on to more blatant acts of violence. Every time Antifa creates a riot and the police stand there and watch, they are all responsible for the next wave of violence. In my day, a protest remained peaceful or everyone went to jail. No exceptions. If there's too many for the jail, too bad... sardines, anyone?

Spend a few days behind bars with the rest of the scum packed in a cell with standing room only and you'll figure out pretty quick that violence is not the answer you seek.

And if anyone resists? We have these things called "billy clubs" that hurt... trust you me, they hurt! Throw a punch? Get knocked up 'side the head with one of those. Still throwing punches? That's why we have tasers. Pull a weapon (knife, gun, etc.)? Get a bullet. Won't take too many of those kinds of responses to quiet things back down so peaceful people can sleep easy at night.

That is how one handles bullies... appeasement never works. The people voted Trump into office... we're not changing that because someone wants to get violent over it, and no, you can't have my lunch money either.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Trump isn't causing this escalation... if anyone is causing it, it is the people who are so overtly anti-Trump. You mentioned Soros and Antifa... those are not Trump's support base.

Duh.. that’s what I meant when I said it will get worse if Trump wins. I know it’s the anti trumpers causing the most chaos.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Arm the rent-a-cops with sweat socks filled with ball bearings or quarters, swing for the fences, problem solves itself.

a reply to: Sheye

I was hoping it was... just making sure we're on the same page here.



TheRedneck

a reply to: JAGStorm
Concealed carry is the answer.
And if you don't like me shooting 'teens'?
Oh my, well... Wasn't the 'logic' behind bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima, 'if we bomb them we will save lives'.
Well that's the logic I will subscribe to them.
If I shoot a couple of the stupid little asshats?
Many more live on to not ABUSE RETAILERS, etc.
Right?

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: JAGStorm
Concealed carry is the answer.
And if you don't like me shooting 'teens'?
Oh my, well... Wasn't the 'logic' behind bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima, 'if we bomb them we will save lives'.
Well that's the logic I will subscribe to them.
If I shoot a couple of the stupid little asshats?
Many more live on to not ABUSE RETAILERS, etc.
Right?

So the answer is to shoot them..ya, no there psychopath!

a reply to: vonclod

Yeah, it is.

Nothing 'psychopath' about it.

I'd rather shoot them in the mall and send a CLEAR MESSAGE - than have to start defending the neighbors, maybe even your house, when they migrate from malls to plundering private homes on a 'whim and a dare'...

That would suck cause ammo is getting expensive.

peace