My prediction is coming true.

Like it or not, morals come from the culture. If the culture believes in God as a moral authority, then that is where the morals come from. To the Aztecs, their morals involved sacrificing people to the sun.

a reply to: Joecanada11

I think you may be a bit confused about where I stand in this conversation...

a reply to: rom12345
Human sacrifices, being a religious practice; are not relevant to morals and ethics. Even then, I'm pretty sure it would of been frowned upon in Mayan culture to kill others because you feel like it. I don't think ritualistic sacrifice = premeditated murder.

a reply to: Badams
i suppose you are correct.
Many fundamental ethics are in fact mammalian traits.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: swanne

Aliens are much more logical than christ the "god". Sorry but this is waaaaay off.

To what do the aliens owe their existence?

a reply to: Badams

The "hokey arguments" in this thread aren't coming from me pal.

But they are and your off topic.

a reply to: chr0naut

Same thing as us. Life doing what it does.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: carsforkids

Riiiiiiggghhhht. God created billions of planets just to make us when he let the dinosaurs roam for millions of years first.... makes sense....not!

So, let me get this straight, you are suggesting that aliens created billions of planets just to make us when they let the dinosaurs roam for millions of years first....

It seems like either the aliens are emulating an all powerful God, or there is an all powerful God. Ultimately neither are, on their own, particularly well reasoned.

And also, an all powerful God would most likely have an attribute of atemporality (or otherwise physical time would be more powerful than the God that created it). So an argument of excessive time periods is irrelevant.

a reply to: Badams

I don't think ritualistic sacrifice = premeditated murder.

Hokey lol

So funny to see the things atheists will say. Once taken God out of the equation
I've seen them eliminate all manner of things.

Love
Evil
To name a few . It's like domino's .

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: chr0naut

Same thing as us. Life doing what it does.

Yes, but can you see the futility of explaining our origins, with more of the same?

We are temporally and physically constrained. We cannot create ourselves, especially as we are ascendant from lesser forms within that construct.

So, the only explanation is that something of greater power and structure, with capabilities which we will never attain (and nor will the aliens) are a possible origin.

The idea that everything came from a quantum fluctuation also suffers from the fact that to prevent the annihalation of opposite virtual particles back into the quantum noise, there has to be a force. Such forces don't exist if nothing exists. You need stuff to pull stuff into reality. Since there is no stuff, you can't ever get there.

Stephen Hawking explained how matter/energy is 'created' by Hawking radiation. The thing is, it requires a black hole, which implies stacks of force carrying particles, and vast amounts of matter, to the point of the distortion of spacetime.

The 'scientific' cosmology is as mythical as the most basic creation legend. Because we have never observed it and have no explanation for it. None. We are 'logically' snookered.

Nothing works, except to assume an atemporal, all powerful, super intelligence and, as you said, it isn't really 'logical'. It necessarily has to be beyond that.

a reply to: chr0naut

Nothing works, except to assume an atemporal, all powerful, super intelligence and, as you said, it isn't really 'logical'. It necessarily has to be beyond that.

But what if that 'nothing', is the end of it ?
( Perhaps 'being' 'outside' of it ? )
And there is no 'beyond' ?

Just: nothing.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: Badams

I don't think ritualistic sacrifice = premeditated murder.

Hokey lol

So funny to see the things atheists will say. Once taken God out of the equation
I've seen them eliminate all manner of things.

Love
Evil
To name a few . It's like domino's .

Oh so it's atheists that are to blame for all the woes of the world, I guess it was the atheists that forced those priests to fondle little kiddies too eh ...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Oh so it's atheists that are to blame for all the woes of the world, I guess it was the atheists that forced those priests to fondle little kiddies too eh ...

I can't even imagine how you derived such a retort from what I
wrote. But why not I'll go down that road with ya.

I would say yes and site the rise in all manner of perversions correlate
lock in step with the rise of secularism in this country and thru out
the world. Not to mention suicide, school shootings, child pornography,
pedophilia etc. You can point to the evils in the catholic church all day
long all pointing is the human being. Don't lay the workings of evil
perverts at Gods feet.

The rise in all these acts coincides right a long side head to head with
the rise of atheism. That's a fact.

Another tid bit for ya, lack of belief in God is positively associated
with psychopathic traits.

Want more?

Just 16 percent have any type of religious affiliation at the time of their attacks, with a slight majority of those being Muslims.
Over just over 20 years from the beginning of January 1998 through today, there have been 69 killers committing 66 mass public shootings in the United States where at least four people have been killed. Of those attacks, just four have been identified as Christians, with just three clearly regular churchgoers. With 70 percent of Americans identifying themselves as Christians and over 33 percent going to church at least once a week, those numbers are a long way away from the 48 or 23 we would respectively expect.[30]

source

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: carsforkids

The bible said god commanded that its okay to beat your slaves. No moral win for the bible.

Alright.. im a step in here. Obviously you have not read or studied the Bible. If you did you would know that The OLD TESTAMENT laws and parts were directed at the HEBREWS so they could establish what God told them to do. The Bible is TWO SEPERATE BOOKS,BUT eventually they started putting them together for convenience. The second book is the NEW TESTAMENT And that has its own rules and laws to follow.

Oh but Jesus said he didnt come to do away with the OT law but fulfill it. Yes,the OT law still applies to the people it was for as is. The gentiles BT covenant people have less strict laws.

@Cars. I think Aliens are not demons. WHy? Because they are not allowwed to roam in their true bodies UNTIL hell opens during the tribulation and so on. Sure they can posses people and show images of themselves and do minor stuff but thats about it.

Aliens also are Gods creations.

originally posted by: SailorJerry
a reply to: yuppa

OH and how do you "orbit" only the dark side of the moon?

Sigh...... The MOon is tidally locked and always faces us. The breakaways are locked in place on the darkside of the moon and GASP since the moon ORBITS the earth THEY DO AS WELL!! Is that broken down enough now for you?

And Astro is where i got the info from,and ive yet to see anything he has stated disproven yet especially by you.

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: chr0naut

Nothing works, except to assume an atemporal, all powerful, super intelligence and, as you said, it isn't really 'logical'. It necessarily has to be beyond that.

But what if that 'nothing', is the end of it ?
( Perhaps 'being' 'outside' of it ? )
And there is no 'beyond' ?

Just: nothing.

We know that everything exists now, is highly structured and has systematic integrity, we just don't know how. To assume there is no explanation is anti-rational.

Saying 'we don't know' is a different thing than saying 'does not happen'.

originally posted by: yuppa
...
And Astro is where i got the info from,and ive yet to see anything he has stated disproven yet especially by you.

Astro ? Didn't know he was into that sort of stuff:

originally posted by: chr0naut

We know that everything exists now, is highly structured and has systematic integrity, we just don't know how. To assume there is no explanation is anti-rational.

Saying 'we don't know' is a different thing than saying 'does not happen'.

Agreed that 'we don't know', resonates, more that proclaiming anything for sure.

So as we bask in this 'not-knowing': is it any more rational to assume that everything must have an explanation ?
Are we 'existant' in a rational universe, or 'reality' ?

Just because we are now able to supposedly explain so much now: biology; science; cosmology; etc... ; does that necessarily mean that everything can, and will be explained ?

Even if so: then we have only explained 'everything', and perhaps we will still be unable to explain 'nothing' ?

( Apologies if my comments here are spilling-over from this other thread: The Universe Creating Itself From Nothing. )

So to try to bring it back towards the OP: the question of physical aliens, and nuts-and-bolts UFOs is not the only explanation available for the phenomenae of odd sightings, and crop-circles.

If entities from other dimensions, are 'breaking-through' into our dimension, and somehow imprinting on fields, and appear as glitches in the sky, doing supposedly impossible things, then how should we refer to that place whence they may be from ?
IE: they may not be 'things', as per our rational descriptors, as they are at this time.