fisher the chess master

why is the u.s after Fisher, just because he played a chess match in Yugoslavia..whoo pee dooo.I would not want to come back either,if my government treated me like that..What a shame and a black eye for this country.

he would fit in well on ATS with all us other paranoid freaks

Basically, he went to play chess in Yugoslavia when both US and UN sanctions were in place, due to all the fighting and genocide. With the sanctions, it was against the law for US citizens to travel there without the permission of the powers that be.

I personally think that he's a arrogant a$$ and I hope they nail his worthless hide to the walls. Fine him, jail him, then let him renounce his citizenship and ship him out of my country.

All that because he's arrogant A$$? Geez, 90% of the US would be thrown out for that then.

I believe his name is Bobby Fischer, but that's besides the point.

He went to play chess, not deliver arms or kill babies or dethrone kings. Leave the man be, let him play chess.

simtek
It's not your country. It's our country. I don't think his behavior justifies nailing him to the wall as you say. He ignored sanctions because he wanted to play chess, and he needed to make money from playing. He had a match, he attended it. We should be examining the reason for the sanctions in the first place, not those individuals who break the sanctions in pursuit of life, liberty, blah blah blah.

silver wolverine
He was a bit extreme in his retaliation, but it's to be expected when your country places political games and haughty pronouncements above and before the wellbeing of its citizens. The state was created to serve the populace, when it fails to do so, the populace rebels against the state. In a way he was justified, and in a way he was reactionary. It really depends on which side of the aisle you're on. If you straddle the fence, this story smacks of political jockeying, evidence of the continued effort on the part of the powers that be to split us up into two sides so they can play us off each other.

zerotime
Yup! That's the truth. Arrogance is par for the course, especially in America. We think our political system is so great we need to export it to the four corners of the globe and kill people who disagree with it. We used to think our relgion was so great it was worth murdering thousands of natives simply because they wouldn't accept our savior. America is all about arrogance, it's our pedigree. Well, along with hypocrisy.

I personally think that he's a arrogant a$$ and I hope they nail his worthless hide to the walls. Fine him, jail him, then let him renounce his citizenship and ship him out of my country.

Pfft! I'd prefer, by far, an arrogant supergenius who stands to his values to a bunch of government sheeps suffering from rampant conservatism and hypocrisy! "Oh Gawd... he defied the authoritaahh! What an arrogant liberal, three-hugging traitor!"

I don't care what happened to the chess guy. But I would like to point out that there should be more people like WyrdeOne. It's good to see from time to me that there is someone who is not thinking in black and white.
At least he's not thinking that the usa is the best country in the world.
Appearantly there are people who want the poor guy to be punished for being arrogant or whatever... May I ask 1 question then? Who is to judge on someone's character??? Well, let the first one without any flaw, throw the first stone then!!!

Good points to all.....

I don't like it when others run down my country. Bobby Fisher's biggest problem (the US government) is his own doing. He may not have been running guns, but the laws of the time (both US and UN) made it illegal for him to travel there, even to just play chess.
The reason I think he's a arrogant a$$, is that I believe that he feels that he's above the law because he's some great chess player. I think that his desire to renounce his citizenship is based on the fact that he doesn't want to face justice here. I would have a smidgen of respect for him if he was willing to return and get his just desserts, then leave. Since he's unwilling, fine him for all he's got, then send him to Iceland as he wants. Let his shadow never darken our land again.

Simbek
I believe that it is a citizen's duty to disregard and destroy all laws that are improper and over-reaching. The US government can't tell me where to travel, I'll say that much. They can't tell me what to drink, or what to eat, or who to bugger, or what to say. If they try, I will disregard their opinion and say "stuff it."

That's the duty of all concerned citizens. Our government is getting more and more arrogant, telling us what we can do with our bodies, telling us what we can say, even going so far as to outlaw a plant! A plant! They've obviously mad, and you should never listen to the advice of crazy people.

You may see very detailed arguments at:

OP/ED: New National Security Threat - Chess

Valhall began a post quite some time ago after Fischer was detained at the Tokyo airport as he was flying to the Phillipines. No matter how you view Fischer, one should consider his basic human rights, regardless of all the hubris that surrounds his complex personality.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Simbek
I believe that it is a citizen's duty to disregard and destroy all laws that are improper and over-reaching. The US government can't tell me where to travel, I'll say that much. They can't tell me what to drink, or what to eat, or who to bugger, or what to say. If they try, I will disregard their opinion and say "stuff it."

Some of the laws about where and where we can't travel, are safety and common sense. You sometimes have to make the laws to protect stupid people. Traveling to places like North Korea and Iran would probably lead to you spending time in their lovely prison systems. Now, I don't like these type of laws, but sometimes, even in a free society like ours, you have to set limits. As far as what to eat, drink, and buggering. No laws yet.

I'm not sure why the travel to Yugoslavia was restricted. I think it was due to NATO bombing and the ethinic cleansing that was going on. I'm sure the typical American would have been looked upon as a spy during that time frame and their life would have been in danger.

I do like the "stuff it" comment though.

Skip- thanks for the thread link.

[edit on 20-3-2005 by simtek 22]

[edit on 20-3-2005 by simtek 22]

I think we should grant a special status to protect people like Bobbie Fischer, Charlie Chaplin, or John Lennon so that when someone rises to the level of superhuman in peaceful artistic or intellectual pursuits they are held to be above the rest of us mere mortals and may practice their vocation in any manner they see fit as long as it does not cause direct harm.

I have a little difficulty with the notion that Mr. Fischer could ever be arrogant, eccentric yes. Perhaps the UN could vote on who should receive this special status. To run a master like Charlie Chaplin out of the country for petty political reasons is arrogant and only serves to diminish us all. When we do this we are a lesser place than before, not as great, not as wise. Pardon Fischer and let him do pretty much whatever he wants and move on because HE’S Bobbie Fischer and for no other reason.

He broke the law, and it is certainly within the rightful prerogative of the United States to prosecute him to fullest extent of the law. However, I think it's a waste. If they want to prosecute someone for traveling illegally, they should be going after Ward Churchill who illegally traveled to Libya for far more nefarious reasons.

[edit on 3/20/2005 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by simtek 22
Some of the laws about where and where we can't travel, are safety and common sense. You sometimes have to make the laws to protect stupid people.

While I'm sure this sort of legislation is well intentioned, it is insulting, counter-productive, and breeds nothing but resentment for the lawmakers. The purpose of the state, and the laws that the state enacts, is to protect citizens from EACH OTHER, not from themselves. I abhor the nanny state, it's an abomination of the concept of freedom. Freedom to make mistakes is the most important sort, because often it's the only way we learn and grow.

Let stupid people suffer, perhaps they will learn to make better decisions.

This sort of legislation reeks of hubris, because it says "the state knows what's best for you." Bull#. Anyone who presumes to know what's best for me is placing themselves above me, and that is not what Democracy is about, that is not what freedom is about, that is not what America is about.

Originally posted by simtek 22
As far as what to eat, drink, and buggering. No laws yet.

You can't eat cannabis, you can't drink absinthe, and sodomy is still illegal in many states. So..the state has overstepped its boundaries in many cases, and I will continue to point out their mistakes until they learn their lesson and modify their ways.

If there was a law mandating every citizen must kill their first born in sacrifice to the POTUS, wouldn't you and every sane person ignore it? Of course you would. For the same reason, these sorts of ridiculous and presumptious laws need to be ignored and fought against at every turn. If you give the state an inch..it will take your life.


[edit on 20-3-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Fischer is now suing the US government for two hundred million dollars for illegal imprisonment and emotional distress. His lawyer says the IRS will be paid with the booty.

“Bosnitch said Fischer's lawyer plans to contest the Constitutionality of the original Executive Order issued by former President George H.W. Bush in 1991. A grand jury indicted Fischer for violating the order in December 1992. He was the only person who took part in the event who was ever charged“, Ryann Connell, Mainichi Daily News, March 22, 2005)

Link here: mdn.mainichi.co.jp...

Next: Boris Spassky joins the Backstreet Boys for their reunion tour of Rwanda.