New Impeachment Transcripts Released Today

a reply to: Sillyolme

"Hillary" ain't over yet either 😎

The Hell she lives in gets hotter 😎

a reply to: Grambler

Wired how what Biden did was public knowledge and no one cried foul until a whistleblower made public secret dealing of Trump, his admin, and non-government persons.

Almost like it was a set up diversion to get people to focus on it instead of the underlying threads.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Gryphon66

I’ll answer your questions, as I have at least four times now, and you ignored every single time

“Did Biden obstruct justice”

Maybe. He forced the firing of a prosecutor looking into his son

When trump fired the person leading an investigation that could affect his associates, we had to have a two year investigation

Why should this be any different.

“Did hunter Biden committ a crime?”

Maybe, but it is not relevant to whether it warrants an investigation into his father and Obama admin

I listed crimes hunter may have committed

I showed you how Biden could have wanted to stop his sons company from being charged merry to allow his son to keep making hundreds of thousands of dollars, even if hunter was doing nothing illegal

That would still be a crime for joe Biden to use tax payer money to fire the prosecutor that was looking into his sons company and could have cost his son that money



Now what crime did trump commit?

I know you won’t answer, I’ve asked several people in this thread, they never answer

You deride others for lying but seem quite happy to lie when it suits you. The Burisma investigation was started befor Hunter Biden was involved with the company and was dormant when Joe Biden made the offer on behalf of President Obama.

The wild conspiracy theory on which Trump based his assertion – that Joe Biden had Shokin removed to stop him investigating wrongdoing in his son’s gas company – has already been widely debunked. Put simply, the chronology doesn’t work – the investigation into Burisma, where Hunter worked, was dormant by the time Shokin was pushed out. It would also represent a major historical anomaly. During Shokin’s 13 months in office, not one major figure was convicted. No oligarch. No politician. No ranking bureaucrat. It would appear unlikely he was in the middle of breaking the habit with the Bidens.

“Neither Shokin nor Poroshenko wanted to investigate [Burisma owner Mykola​] Zlochevsky,” says Sakvarelidze. “They simply began a criminal case, arrested a few assets, and began negotiating with the corruptioneer for a bribe.”

V iktor Shokin: The inside story on Ukraine’s ‘very good’ prosecutor at centre of Trump scandal

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Boadicea

There is zero basis to investigate the Bidens. If there is please tell me what that would be.

At the very least, we know that many considered Hunter Biden's appointment to Burisma a conflict of interest at best -- both here and abroad, both then and now. We have this from recent testimony in the impeachment inquiry:

Report: Diplomat Reveals He Flagged Hunter Biden’s Ukraine Work In 2015

And we know that the Ukrainians have had longstanding concerns -- since Hunter was appointed pretty much. These are from 2015:

Ukrainians See Conflict in Biden’s Anticorruption Message

Tensions Grow Between Obama Admin, Ukraine

The Ukrainian judicial system has stated that fact multiple times. Shokin, the displaced Prosecutor General, is the ONLY one claiming otherwise, and he didn’t start claiming that until Trump and company started the new efforts based on nothing more than partisan supposition.

I don't trust Shokin farther than I can throw him... and I doubt anyone else does either. Unless I'm mis-remembering (in which case I'm sure someone will let me know), Shokin has been all over the place in his words. More to the point, no one in Ukraine trusted their prosecutor's office then or now, regarding the Bidens and far more...

Forget Trump and Biden. For Ukraine, the scandal is still corruption.

And when the NPR tells us that --

...Ukraine's newly appointed top prosecutor announced a sweeping review of past corruption investigations that had been either shut down or split up...

-- that lends credence to the charges of corruption in general, and specifically (for our purposes) the Bidens.

Ukraine Conducts Probe Sought By Trump Regarding Hunter Biden's Former Employer

Investigations that were "shut down or split up." The former being the most concerning. The optics are suspicious to say the least. We cannot know the truth without a thorough investigation. Those investigations were not performed and/or completed amidst all these cries of corruption -- from Ukrainians!!! So no, we have no proof of wrongdoing by the Bidens. Neither do we have any proof otherwise. But to be clear, that "we" is you and me and everyone else not privy to the sordid details.

We now have our president under impeachment inquiry for basically doing his job and seeking this investigation into corruption by our Vice President (and would-be President) in Ukraine. And do note that we're talking about corruption at the very highest level of the government: the (then) Vice President and possibly the President. It is the president's job to enforce the laws. It is the president's job to engage in diplomatic relations and negotiations with foreign nations. It is the president's job to honor and fulfill duly ratified treaties with foreign nations.

We can discuss and debate how Trump went about it, but all I see right now is an all-out (shady as F) attempt to take down a duly elected president who was doing his job. I don't see what Trump did as much different than Biden threatening to withhold aid if the prosecutor wasn't fired. Except Biden was protecting himself and his son with his quid pro quo... and Trump was a threat to Biden and son with his (so-called) quid pro quo.

If the critters running this impeachment show want to prove that Trump was out of line, then they need those investigations into the Bidens to be performed, completed, and made public FIRST. If Trump had good reason to believe those investigations were necessary and proper, then it was his job to do what he could to make it happen. If he crossed lines, so be it. But that does not excuse any wrongdoing by the Bidens or anyone else.

I’m not a fan of the Democratic Party as it stands today either, but that does not change the fact that there is ZERO here of substance to investigate the Biden’s on, and there are REAMS of evidence that Trump and his Administration have acted improperly and caused harm to the United States of America.

There’s no integrity anywhere in or Government at the present time. Not in the White House, certainly not in the Capitol, and I have very severe doubts about the Supreme Court.

Exactly. We have no reason to trust any of them! In fact, we have very good reason to trust NONE OF THEM!!!

So bring on the investigations, here and in Ukraine, in the bright light of day. Investigate them all! And let the chips fall where they may.

What ON EARTH do you think Joe BIden is guilty of??? What crime? Surely if you’re so convinced of his guilt, you must know what he’s guilty of, right?

For starters, possibly obstruction of justice in shutting down investigations into criminal wrongdoing that he was a part of or protecting for some reason. How about money laundering? There's an awful lot of that foreign aid we gave Ukraine that fell into a black hole.

At this point, I'm more focused on the process to get to the specific crimes, because that seems to be where the greatest obstruction is.

a reply to: Boadicea

SLAM!!!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

One one hand you have a government official bragging about corruption with a country that admits he did and was actively investigating it.

Then you have another individual that says there was no corruption and the same government says there was no corrutption.


Seems like an easy case of right and wrong, but the media is friends with the wrongdoer so impeach trump.


Think of how much destruction the left has wrought in 3 years - gender doesn't mean anything, life doesn't mean anything, nba doesn't mean anything, comedy doesn't mean anything, ratings don't mean anything, plot doesn't mean anything, facts don't mean anything, natural rights don't mean anything, nothing means anything anymore, but impeach trump because of sharpie lines on a weather projection, epstein committed suicide *wink wink

a reply to: RexKramerPRT

Yep didn’t lie

Biden admitted to forcing that prosecutor to be fired

Biden and Obama has know way of knowing what shokin progress on the investigation into Burisma was doing

All they knew was that he was in charge of investigating Biden’s sons company

I have done threads on the “Biden wanted a stronger investigation into his sons company, but for some reason had no problem with the NABU burying the investigation when they got it” defense

If trump forced the firing of a prosecutor looking into his sons company with US tax dollars, saying Wel actually that prosecutor was doing a poor job would not be a defense

And for the record, shokin has testified he was pursuing the investigation

And Burisma s lawyers admitted to an interim prosecutor shokin was pursuing them and US officials spread disinformation when they said he wasn’t

a reply to: proximo

Look, this is real simple. Trump demanded that Zelenskiy "do whatever he can" to clear Russia and blame Joe Biden and Democrats, or else they won't get their military aid.

That's extortion. It's not foreign policy, it's not fighting corruption, it's demanding Ukraine to assist his re-election campaign and demonize his political rivals.

"All roads lead to Russia, with this President". Everything he does is designed to benefit Putin.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: proximo

Look, this is real simple. Trump demanded that Zelenskiy "do whatever he can" to clear Russia and blame Joe Biden and Democrats, or else they won't get their military aid.

Really? Um... no. I assume you are referring to this exchange:

Speaking at a press conference at the United Nations with Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky, Trump was asked, “Would you like President Zelensky to do more on Joe Biden and the investigation?” To which the president [snip for inappropriate snarkiness] responded:

“No, I want him to do whatever he can. This was not his fault. He was not there. He’s just been here recently. But whatever he can do in terms of corruption, because the corruption is massive. Now, when Biden’s son walks away with millions of dollars from Ukraine and he knows nothing, and they’re paying him millions of dollars, that’s corruption. When Biden’s son walks out of China with $1.5 billion in a fund and the biggest funds in the world can’t get money out of China. And he’s there for one quick meeting and then he flies in on Air Force Two. I think that’s a horrible thing. I think that’s a horrible thing, but I’m going far beyond that. I know the president, and I’ve read a lot about Ukraine, I’ve read about a lot of countries. He wants to stop corruption.”

The fact that you link "corruption" with the Bidens directly is very telling... However, it says far more about your opinion of the Bidens than about Trump.

a reply to: Boadicea

I didn't link corruption with the Biden's. I also didn't suggest that Russia is innocent.

Merely repeating Trump's insane conspiracy theory is not an endorsement of its validity.

Trump's obsession with Crowdstrike is all about clearing the Russians, for interfering in the 2016 election, and blaming the Democrats.

ETA: "Do whatever you can" is part of the phone call transcript/memo.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I didn't link corruption with the Biden's.

Yes, you did. Your words:

Trump demanded that Zelenskiy "do whatever he can" to clear Russia and blame Joe Biden and Democrats, or else they won't get their military aid.

Trump's words:

I want him to do whatever he can... [snip]... whatever he can do in terms of corruption, because the corruption is massive.

You directly linked the corruption Trump spoke of with the Bidens, etc., with conditions. Trump did not say that. You did. Those are YOUR words, YOUR thoughts, YOUR opinions.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Let's not split words here. You did in fact link the corruption with Biden. But you're right that Trump did as well:

One was a reference regarding Crowdstrike specifically:

I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowstrike... whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.

And another to Biden specifically:

The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it.... It sounds horrible to me.

Phone Call Transcript

As for the rest, I don't give a rat's patootie with Trump thinks -- or what you think Trump thinks. I want a full and complete investigation to find out the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Regarding Biden AND regarding Trump's actions thereof.

a reply to: Boadicea

LOL

Pointing out that Trump's agenda is to (get Ukraine to) blame the Democrats for what the Russians have been found to be culpable of, and frame Joe & Hunter Biden for Ukrainian corruption, that Shokin refused to investigate, or indict a certain corrupt owner of a gass company, is not me endorsing Trump's nutty conspiracy theory.

That's me telling you what this impeachment boils down to.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Boadicea

LOL

Pointing out that Trump's agenda is to (get Ukraine to) blame the Democrats for what the Russians have been found to be culpable of, and frame Joe & Hunter Biden for Ukrainian corruption, that Shokin refused to investigate, or indict a certain corrupt owner of a gass company, is not me endorsing Trump's nutty conspiracy theory.

Never thought that for a minute...

You came up with your own nutty conspiracy theory/theories!!!

LOL indeed

a reply to: Boadicea

But you do think, it seems, that me explaining Trump's nutty conspiracy theories somehow endorses his claim that Ukraine's corruption comes from the Bidens.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Boadicea

But you do think, it seems, that me explaining Trump's nutty conspiracy theories somehow endorses his claim that Ukraine's corruption comes from the Bidens.

Nope. I don't think that at all.

Ukraine has long had corruption problems, that were compounded by Russia's annexation of Crimea, that were a problem before, during and after the Bidens were involved. The corruption was not limited to the Bidens, nor the Russians, nor Crowdstrike, nor any other one issue. It did originate or culminate with the Bidens, nor the Russians, nor Crowdstrike, nor any other one issue.

What we do know is that the Ukrainian prosecutor's office was not trustworthy for a very long time. Any/all actions are questionable, as are any and all conclusions drawn.

The extent of nuttiness regarding anyone's theories regarding any or all of this can only be determined with a full and complete investigation.... like the one Trump wanted.

a reply to: Boadicea

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Bidens acted corruptly regarding Ukraine affairs. Is there an appearance of conflict of interest, sure. But, if conflict of interest was a crime, Trump would have been impeached a long time ago.

Trump is being impeached for trying to extort the Ukrainian president into legitimizing his wild and crazy conspiracy theory, to benefit him in his 2020 re-election bid.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: proximo

Look, this is real simple. Trump demanded that Zelenskiy "do whatever he can" to clear Russia and blame Joe Biden and Democrats, or else they won't get their military aid.

That's extortion. It's not foreign policy, it's not fighting corruption, it's demanding Ukraine to assist his re-election campaign and demonize his political rivals.

"All roads lead to Russia, with this President". Everything he does is designed to benefit Putin.

That is total crap. I read the transcript buddy - he does not say any such thing.

You and the rest of the Democrats cannot invert reality just because you want to get Trump.

a reply to: ChefFox

And??? That is exactly what is happening.

Where were we wrong?

a reply to: proximo

That is total crap. I read the transcript buddy - he does not say any such thing.

Are you so myopic as to believe that this impeachment inquiry is totally dependent on what, and only what was said on that call?

This is also about Rudy Giuliani's shadow diplomacy, at the behest of the president, and the counselling that Ukrainian officials were getting from Rudy and his two (arrested) chuckleheads, the 3 Amigos, national security alarm bells, Russian aggression and State Department employees jumping ship, contacting lawyers, blowing whistles and so much more.