Woman Charged With First Degree Murder Of Fetus In California

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Gryphon66

People will defend it, she'll get off with a fine.

Human life is a nothing-burger.

I do not agree with that if it happens.

She killed the fetus.

Of course she did!

But she won't see a minute of jail time.

The left will give her a victim shirt and she'll wear it proudly.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I’m not sure there’s any better legislation possible.

I am, I was just reading about a dad trying to pressure his teenage daughter into an abortion, how strong was the pressure, he told her she was getting kicked out of the house if she didn't have an abortion.
It's sad when the less experienced generation values life more than the previous, who should have picked up that wisdom as they grew up, but didn't.
But the pro-choice people should be supporting this teenager, as she made her choice.

a reply to: DBCowboy

/sigh

It’s not about imaginary partisan BS.

She killed a viable fetus.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

People are vicious little monkeys. I work with a charity that helps LGBT youth who have been thrown out (some as young as 13) by their parents.

No, there’s nothing pro-choice about this, but your actual reason for the OP becomes more clear.

She did have a choice. She chose to use drugs and that killed a viable fetus and that’s her responsibility.

This was not an medical procedure with any merit, and it’s specious to attempt to equate the two for petty political points. IMO

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: DBCowboy

/sigh

It’s not about imaginary partisan BS.

She killed a viable fetus.

She did.

And won't see jail time.

I'd love to be wrong, hell, I hope I am.

But I'm not wrong.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Well, it may not be a mess on a napkin, but after all , its just a Festus, not a real person. Right?

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Just put her back on the street and leave the poor woman alone!
She'll be dead in a week.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: Gryphon66

Well, it may not be a mess on a napkin, but after all , its just a Festus, not a real person. Right?

An 8.5 month fetus would be a hell of a mess on a damn big napkin since you choose to be crude.

A viable fetus is treated differently under our laws.

But you believe that it’s a baby from conception, right? And yet, there are understandable situations when you can accept an abortion is needed?

I’ll take someone quibbling over a fetus any day over someone who can full-throated justify killing a baby when they think there’s a good reason.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33
to be first-degree murder it would have to be premeditated meaning she would have had to purposely take too many drugs is a plan to kill the baby. Probably very hard to prove that. Even then defense probably has many angles. Your recommendation would probably be the verdict.

As a prosecutor you aim and charge high and settle low.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No, there’s nothing pro-choice about this, but your actual reason for the OP becomes more clear. She did have a choice. She chose to use drugs and that killed a viable fetus and that’s her responsibility.

You totally misunderstood my post about the choice the teenage girl was making keeping her baby, verses the mother who took drugs as a choice to not care. I edited one word to make it clearer.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

I don’t think I did misunderstand you at all.

You stated that the pro-choice people should be supporting the 25 year old in your OP that killed her fetus with a meth overdose ... correct or incorrect?

a reply to: DBCowboy

And yet, if her drug dealer gave her tainted drugs and both the mother and child died...double homicide. Wonderful system of laws, ain’t it?

a reply to: Ahabstar

... because the drug-dealer has no rights in the situation and committed several crimes, not the least of which was killing a woman and a viable fetus.

Seems consistent to me.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: DBCowboy

And yet, if her drug dealer gave her tainted drugs and both the mother and child died...double homicide. Wonderful system of laws, ain’t it?

It's a train wreck that people are supporting.

They need to follow the dope up stream, and charge some one who sent it her way. Someone who doesn't do dope, that's in it for money. That will send a message to "for profit" dealers, peddling that poison.
People like her need treatment. Her mind is not right. She is hooked, and has poor judgment, on a lot more then her pregnancy. Ive seen what that crap does to peoples lives. I live in California

a reply to: visitedbythem

The court will probably pass ... Based on precedent.

Don't you think? What kind of place is Kings County?

a reply to: Gryphon66

No they shouldn't at 8.5 months like you said.....but the other point was directed at a totally different situation which you partially addressed.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

It's legal to kill unborn babies.

No, it isn’t; as this case shows.

If one believes that conception is the beginning of personhood then they should not have an abortion.

For those that don’t believe that, until the fetus is viable, the only rational way to legislate is to have the choice remain with the pregnant lady. It’s no one else’s business.

After viability, it is a different matter. I’m not sure there’s any better legislation possible.

A serious question then.

When to you, is a fetus viable?

Week 20 to me seems just silly...

3rd term or late term abortions to me seems like infanticide...

is there a line for you?

Just curious.

You would need to prove she intended to kill the fetus for it to be 1st degree murder. I doubt if she did. I doubt if her brain got very far past the I want the dang drugs point.
Manslaughter at the most.

a reply to: Lumenari

Viability was the change brought to Roe v. Wade after the Casey decision in ‘92.

Viability is whenever the fetus can survive outside the mother’s body.

Currently that seems to be on average between gestational weeks 24–26.

After the point of viability, Roe/Casey basically says that there must be a compelling reason for an abortion, to save the life of the mother.

For me? Were I able to be pregnant, my choice would be to have the baby if I could unless it was cripplingly deformed.

If I had to choose between my spouse and a baby, I’d choose my spouse every time.

I cannot make any of those choices for another person and I cannot deny her the right to her own body. If we err it has to be on the side of the mother.

I look forward to advances in technology that will make all these questions moot.