Medicare for all question

I am a Republican towards the middle. How is it that if we eliminate insurance companies that what people pay will go up. Take away the 500 billion they eat up and get rid of the middle man can't make things more expensive. What am I missing

a reply to: jlafleur02

Most businesses pay the brunt for private insurance. 80-20 is typical...

Now the government would be paying the insurance costs.
Is that coming from taxes?

Not to mention every time the government pays for something the price doubles..

Politicians always have an idea but they never have a plan to scrutinize.

originally posted by: jlafleur02
I am a Republican towards the middle. How is it that if we eliminate insurance companies that what people pay will go up. Take away the 500 billion they eat up and get rid of the middle man can't make things more expensive. What am I missing

What "500 billion they eat up" ? 😃

originally posted by: jlafleur02
I am a Republican towards the middle. How is it that if we eliminate insurance companies that what people pay will go up. Take away the 500 billion they eat up and get rid of the middle man can't make things more expensive. What am I missing

Even though insurance companies are evil greedy bastards, governmental beurocrocy, inefficiency, waste, and outright incompetence would cost more.

You also have to factor in the fact that many employers either pay for, or greatly supplement thier employees insurance costs.

As I understand Warren's plan, she would tax employers for their employees. Again, a bad idea.

a reply to: jlafleur02

As a Republican, you know that competition, and capitalism are, as a rule, cheaper than a government run program, right?

originally posted by: jlafleur02
I am a Republican towards the middle. How is it that if we eliminate insurance companies that what people pay will go up. Take away the 500 billion they eat up and get rid of the middle man can't make things more expensive. What am I missing

The insurance companies won't be eliminated. Healthcare isn't about healthcare, it's about profit. All the way from $15 aspirin tablets to $100,000 bogus cancer cures. It's capitalism, pure and simple...you got a problem with that?
The lobbiest know full well whose palms to greeze to maintain the status quo. That's the way we do business here in America...MAGA!

originally posted by: jlafleur02
I am a Republican towards the middle. How is it that if we eliminate insurance companies that what people pay will go up. Take away the 500 billion they eat up and get rid of the middle man can't make things more expensive. What am I missing

You aren't taking away the middle man. You are setting the government as the only (monopoly) middle man.

a reply to: jlafleur02

Elizabeth Warren has a very detailed plan laid out on her website: ENDING THE STRANGLEHOLD OF HEALTH CARE COSTS ON AMERICAN FAMILIES

Upfront, every American citizen stops paying for copays and prescription drugs because that payment is now made by the government.

Existing taxation covers most of the cost of Medicare For All, additional wealth taxes (anything over $50 million/year), cutting Pentagon spending in addition to a 1% tax on investment income (you don't get taxed unless your wealth increases).

Before people complain about 'but my 401k!', an estimated 55 million Americans (15% of the population) have 401k's. You're very, very fortunate to begin with even having one.

So, in short, you stop paying for medical costs altogether and a few people having way more than $1 million are going to see their taxes go up. For the vast majority of Americans making less than $250k/year, their costs will go down.

Patients need to stop paying for unnecessary procedures. I see people being prescribed treatments and tests all the time that in no way match the symptoms. They stay sick for a long time, eventually the right diagnosis is found, the diagnosis that should have been given right away. I do not know what the medical industry is doing, they are raising the price of insurances through the roof by having wrong diagnosis's originally. I do not think the Doctors are that dumb, if they are, then the medical colleges must be looked at for their teaching of doctors to scam the public instead of helping people. I think the doctors are being told to increase testing to pay for the labs and services that are provided by the hospitals.

a reply to: links234

Great.

Kind of makea you wonder why experts from both sides of the aisle are saying the numbers don't come close to adding up.

Let me clear it up for you. THE NUMBERS DON'T ADD UP.

That's without even considering the damage it would do to the economy.


Edit:

Also that 15% number is inaccurate, as many 401k accounts are joint accounts, where husband, and wife have a single account.

a reply to: rickymouse

I think the doctors are being told to increase testing to pay for the labs and services that are provided by the hospitals.

I used to work for a University med school. Doctors are told to invest in labs and services to enhance the bottom line once they have a practice established.

Capitalism, what's your problem...? Contracted Labs and medical services cost a lot of money to establish...they don't deserve a fair return for the stockholders investments....?

originally posted by: rickymouse
Patients need to stop paying for unnecessary procedures. I see people being prescribed treatments and tests all the time that in no way match the symptoms. They stay sick for a long time, eventually the right diagnosis is found, the diagnosis that should have been given right away. I do not know what the medical industry is doing, they are raising the price of insurances through the roof by having wrong diagnosis's originally. I do not think the Doctors are that dumb, if they are, then the medical colleges must be looked at for their teaching of doctors to scam the public instead of helping people. I think the doctors are being told to increase testing to pay for the labs and services that are provided by the hospitals.

I worked in health care for several years. The ACA changed how our system works. Doctors by the thousands had to give up their practices and become part of larger health systems or insurance companies wouldn't pay them. That is a VERY general statement without an explanation of how, but that was the end result. Now we have several different doctors for simple procedures and diagnostic processes where we used to only have a few, and costs have skyrocketed.

For example: When I sprained an ankle when I was a kid I went to my regular doctor, got in the same day, he fixed me up and I was on my way after mom paid cash for the office call. If I did that today my regular doctor would diagnose it, then set up an appointment with an orthopedic specialist who would have an xray done and possibly an MRI to make sure I didn't sustain any serious damage to tissues, tendons and so on. Now a radiologist is in the mix along with multiple nurses and technicians and a simple sprained ankle just jumped from a couple hundred dollar injury to several thousand dollars because insurance companies are afraid of being sued if every possible thing isn't checked. That is an extreme waste of resources, no matter what type of coverage one has. None, private or completely covered public care, it's still a waste of expensive treatment options.

Wait a minute. Isn't it good to check things out? Absolutely, but we use far more procedures than are necessary most of the time. My general doctor told me straight out if they don't follow the guidelines of the insurance company, they won't get paid. Period. So now people that don't know you and have never seen you are dictating your method of treatment. It's gotten ridiculous.

Medicare for all is a difficult thing to do. Most good union and company health plans are much better than Medicare as it is.

Politically, it may be Trump’s best chance of winning. Bernie, who admits ALL TAXES will go up( even for the middle class) and Warren who is fantasizing or lying by saying taxes won't go up for the middle class only the rich. Both will have a hard time getting that through Congress and getting elected telling people their taxes will rise and they have to give up their good health insurance.

a reply to: jlafleur02

I posted this in another thread, but wanted to post here as well:
Medicare for all is stupid! Let's have a look at how Medicare currently works:

www.dummies.com...

"Do remember that Medicare isn’t free. You pay premiums for coverage and co-payments for most services unless you qualify for a low-income program or have extra insurance from another source.

Don’t assume that Medicare covers everything. It covers a wide range of medical services (including expensive ones like organ transplants), prescription drugs, and medical equipment. But there are gaps, such as coverage for routine vision, hearing, and dental care. And Medicare doesn’t cover the non-medical costs of long-term care in nursing homes and assisted-living facilities."

And now let's look at the Medicare supplemental plans sold by private insurance companies, or Medicare advantage you pay more for:

www.ehealthinsurance.com...

"Medicare Supplement insurance plans only pay for gaps in coverage in Original Medicare, and not Medicare Advantage plans (like HMOs or PPOs), stand-alone Medicare Prescription Drug Plans, employer/union group health coverage, Medicaid, or TRICARE (military retiree benefits). In fact, it’s illegal for an insurance company to sell you a Medicare Supplement insurance plan if you already have a Medicare Advantage plan or Medicaid (a government program, separate from Medicare, that helps pay health-care costs for those who qualify, generally through low income) unless that coverage is ending."

More at links- a good read.

So in other words people are currently paying for services and insurance. There is no way that everything will be covered for everyone. It a bold faced lie and they know it.

Elizabeth warrens calculator on her Medicare for all webpage is a joke!

elizabethwarren.com...

originally posted by: Willtell
Medicare for all is a difficult thing to do. Most good union and company health plans are much better than Medicare as it is.

Politically, it may be Trump’s best chance of winning. Bernie, who admits ALL TAXES will go up( even for the middle class) and Warren who is fantasizing or lying by saying taxes won't go up for the middle class only the rich. Both will have a hard time getting that through Congress and getting elected telling people their taxes will rise and they have to give up their good health insurance.

I've had the same thoughts about getting those grandiose plans through the legislature, but then I remember how Obamacare was rammed through.

The only thing standing in the way of getting something horrible through now, is a Republican controlled senate. If that turns over, all bets are off.

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Willtell
Medicare for all is a difficult thing to do. Most good union and company health plans are much better than Medicare as it is.

Politically, it may be Trump’s best chance of winning. Bernie, who admits ALL TAXES will go up( even for the middle class) and Warren who is fantasizing or lying by saying taxes won't go up for the middle class only the rich. Both will have a hard time getting that through Congress and getting elected telling people their taxes will rise and they have to give up their good health insurance.

I've had the same thoughts about getting those grandiose plans through the legislature, but then I remember how Obamacare was rammed through.

The only thing standing in the way of getting something horrible through now, is a Republican controlled senate. If that turns over, all bets are off.

Healthcare will maintain the status quo, and now that regulations have been eased, expect all things medical to drastically increase in cost for the American working man. Company health plans will be cut sharply or discontinued due to costs.

www.commonwealthfund.org...

www.schwab.com...

doin business the American way...deal with it!!!

a reply to: jlafleur02

It won’t. People will save money. No deductible, no copayment, no premium.

Lose or change your job? You don’t have to worry about losing your insurance.

Change doctors? No worries.

People don’t love their insurance company, they love their healthcare delivery team.

Edit to add...There’s a Koch brother’s funded study out there that shows Medicare for all would save the working class family money versus the status quo.

a reply to: Mach2


It’s the filibuster that can stop it. That’s why Warren wants to get rid of the need for 60 votes to stop a filibuster.
The problem is that a lot of even democratic Senators don’t want Medicare for all

a reply to: Gumerk

People don’t love their insurance company, they love their healthcare delivery team.

I think it would be naive to think that healthcare professionals aren't heavily invested in insurance providers.

Even my nurse exwife knew how the system works....insurance and the for profit medical industry are joined at the hip. That's not gonna change...

originally posted by: jlafleur02
I am a Republican towards the middle. How is it that if we eliminate insurance companies that what people pay will go up. Take away the 500 billion they eat up and get rid of the middle man can't make things more expensive. What am I missing

Because you are getting rid of $500 billion and replacing it with $5000 billion ($5 trillion). That is the estimated cost for Warren's plan. Current total medical spending is $3.5 trillion, that means she is adding $1.5 trillion in spending .. yet claims no one will have to pay extra. I heard you can keep your plan too ....