2nd commandment forbids ALIEN disclosure!

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Please show me your evidence, I am interested in seeing it.

Show me some of your evidence besides some bible scripts which you have manipulated into saying what you want to believe. My point is that if they were posing as God they would be doing more than having ancient people paint on walls. No one worships aliens, c'mon man...

I fail to see what relevance it makes whether we were "created" by aliens or by God. No entity in this universe can really create anything; they simply manipulate matter in such a way as to allow a new thing to come to be, not creation in the truest sense.

Now, I know some of you will jump up and flame me for misdefining the word creation, but let me put this into perspective first. The creation that I'm talking about is the true genesis of some new thing from so-called "nothing". In a physical universe, such as the one in which we inhabit, I find it impossible for the so-called "nothing" to exist. Anything that can be defined is not nothing. Nothing is a concept, just like infinity is.

And now I bet some of you are asking the question: What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Well, in the scope of being created by an alien race, one must ask the question who created the aliens. The discovery of other life should only BOLSTER the belief in an all-powerful being, since they had to be created by some other entity. If one takes this back far enough, sooner or later we're gonna find out that there is an all-powerful being, God if you will, that started it all. He'll be the one that created everything from "nothing", therefore allowing all other races of beings to come along and tweak his creation to suit them, making other things as they go. These things they make are not created by them, per se, they are manipulated into being by them. God made them by proxy because he gave these entities the intelligence to manipulate matter in such a way that they could appear to create something, when in fact all they did was mix some stuff together that hadn't been mixed before.

I hope this makes sense.

You make some interesting points Borg but it could actually be a big difference if we were created by Aliens or "God". I feel like we would be closer to answers( among other things) if we just thought of Aliens as "Gods". They just seem more reachable or tangible than a Holy Spirit that always seem to change form as science advances still stay believeable. Like Im sure it will happen when/If they find life on Mars.

And saying that Aliens obviopusly had to have a creator too does not answer any questions. The same thing can be said about anything, even "God".

And to Meshuggah did "God" not make himself known to us in Biblical. Just replace the word God with Aliens.

Originally posted by meshuggah1324
Show me some of your evidence besides some bible scripts

What are you talking about?!

I said nothing about the bible, sure ihave read it cover to cover, and I'm reading the koran, but I do not claim to be a bible thumper or muslim.

Don't try the tag and reverse on me, come on, I asked first. Be a man or woman and explain why you "think" what you do.

Originally posted by Charlie Murphy
You make some interesting points Borg but it could actually be a big difference if we were created by Aliens or "God". I feel like we would be closer to answers( among other things) if we just thought of Aliens as "Gods". They just seem more reachable or tangible than a Holy Spirit that always seem to change form as science advances still stay believeable. Like Im sure it will happen when/If they find life on Mars.

And saying that Aliens obviopusly had to have a creator too does not answer any questions. The same thing can be said about anything, even "God".

And to Meshuggah did "God" not make himself known to us in Biblical. Just replace the word God with Aliens.

Yes, one can definitely describe God as an alien, simply because he's not of this world. However, just because he's an "alien" does not mean that he's a physical being of any kind. I think the distinction should be made between aliens and God that God is a Spiritual being, while aliens are physical entities. The difference for creation then would be that the spiritual entity, or God, created all that is, and all the creatures in it. All the creatures can interact with the environment in ways that may seem to create new things, when in fact all they are doing is altering current ones.

Let me use a loose analogy. In the animal kingdom, how do you think the animals percieve us humans when we trap them, or kill them for that matter? They must feel, in some rudamentary sense, the same way that we would feel when/if aliens came here. We, to the animal, are probably very much aliens, and are to be feared because we hold great power over them. However, that does not mean that we are the creators of said creatures.

Now I know this doesn't describe exactly what I'm trying to get at, but it begins to paint the picture. I hope you can see where I'm going with this, as my fingers are getting tired. I'm gonna stop now, lol.

I think discussing the thousand possible interpretations of some holy scriptures as written by a priest class(pick the interpretation that suits you most) is like squabling over the eyewitness account of admiral byrd, pretty useless, because both accounts fail to be scientificaly verified in the first place.


[edit on 8-3-2005 by Countermeasures]

Ok, then what we need is a list comparing things scientifically proven false, and scientifically proven true. Along with those things not proven.

Just to guide the debate, for arguement preventive reasons.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by ADVISOR]

I got to hand it to you. I normally find those claims of x, y and z written in the bible to be dubious. However, what you have stated, can only have one meaning and it's quite clearly stated.

Yes, it definitely does seem the 2nd commandment forbids alien disclosure. Maybe, this is why it is not happening. And then Amoks expounding on it from quotes from the bible.

I think it's becoming quite clear that the bible is calling aliens angels and fallen angels and god himself sound's like an alien. A jealous God? lol.

[edit on 8-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Clear only if you go into it with that interpretation in mind...

I still think it's funny that it's against the ten commandments to carve a picture of a fish apparently...

A little history on the fish:

It is not against the 10 commandants to draw a fish. The Christian fish is no more or less than a letter of the alphabet. It was, and still is, a symbol (letter if you will) to identify yourself as a Christian.

When Christians were routinely killed for their beliefs, the symbol was used to identify someone that was “safe” to talk to. One party would draw an arc, and the other would complete it by drawing another arc under the first, making the simple fish symbol.

It is not a Graven Image spoken of in the commandments. If it were, the alphabet would be outlawed too. A graven image is an object that is worshiped. A symbol is an object that means something to the writer. The fish on the back of peoples car is not worshiped.

Originally posted by TheBorg
I fail to see what relevance it makes whether we were "created" by aliens or by God. No entity in this universe can really create anything; they simply manipulate matter in such a way as to allow a new thing to come to be, not creation in the truest sense.

Now, I know some of you will jump up and flame me for misdefining the word creation, but let me put this into perspective first. The creation that I'm talking about is the true genesis of some new thing from so-called "nothing". In a physical universe, such as the one in which we inhabit, I find it impossible for the so-called "nothing" to exist. Anything that can be defined is not nothing. Nothing is a concept, just like infinity is.

And now I bet some of you are asking the question: What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Well, in the scope of being created by an alien race, one must ask the question who created the aliens. The discovery of other life should only BOLSTER the belief in an all-powerful being, since they had to be created by some other entity. If one takes this back far enough, sooner or later we're gonna find out that there is an all-powerful being, God if you will, that started it all. He'll be the one that created everything from "nothing", therefore allowing all other races of beings to come along and tweak his creation to suit them, making other things as they go. These things they make are not created by them, per se, they are manipulated into being by them. God made them by proxy because he gave these entities the intelligence to manipulate matter in such a way that they could appear to create something, when in fact all they did was mix some stuff together that hadn't been mixed before.

I hope this makes sense.

This is the most practical and logical explanation in this thread. I agree completely.

I believe that with this commandment God is warning us not to lose faith even in light of the extraordinary. In the end it is still God that runs the whole show.

I voted you WATS Borg.

Peace

As I posted somewhere else on another thread. I watched a show on the history, Discovery, TLC, or PBs channel and they had a program on talking about the Catholic Churches official position on aliens, demons, & alternate dimensions. They had a bishop or Cardinal from Spain and an exorcist stating that Zacheriah Stichin's theory of humanity being created / manipulated by aliens was actually the DIVINE WILL of GOD. It was God who made the aliens that manipulated humans. He said the church believes in alternate dimensions & that demons / fallen angels are trying to take control of human bodies to experience our pleasures in life etc.
They actually support alien life on other planets. That was pretty wierd.

It is not a Graven Image spoken of in the commandments.

That's ONE interpretation, yes...but my point is that it is ALL about interpretation.... Try and take it literally and then you'll see how ambiguously any of it can be turned around...

Technically a graven image is any image engraved into something, so yes, my statement that a fish carving would be a violation of the literal commandment is correct, given that interpretation....

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
As I posted somewhere else on another thread. I watched a show on the history, Discovery, TLC, or PBs channel and they had a program on talking about the Catholic Churches official position on aliens, demons, & alternate dimensions. They had a bishop or Cardinal from Spain and an exorcist stating that Zacheriah Stichin's theory of humanity being created / manipulated by aliens was actually the DIVINE WILL of GOD. It was God who made the aliens that manipulated humans. He said the church believes in alternate dimensions & that demons / fallen angels are trying to take control of human bodies to experience our pleasures in life etc.
They actually support alien life on other planets. That was pretty wierd.

Good stuff! This makes me wonder where the Vatican stands as far as disclosure goes. This must be an unofficial stance by the Catholic church. Why is the Vatican not coming out officially and doing it's job of paving the way for disclosure by helping the religious masses reinterpret God's word????

In our everyday reality, we humans couldn't possibly ever comprehend that what we're allegedly dealing with are fallen angels and demons. It's beyond mythological. How do you get the masses to wrap their minds around this concept without them going completely insane?

Peace

[edit on 8-3-2005 by Dr Love]

Amazing that the church could know all about aliens and yet still believe the world was flat for all those years, or that it was the center of the Universe instead of the backwater planet we really are...

I think the church may know more than it's telling, but I seriously doubt they've got that kind of understanding of their agenda....

Originally posted by Gazrok
Technically a graven image is any image engraved into something, so yes, my statement that a fish carving would be a violation of the literal commandment is correct, given that interpretation....

Technically, in this context, a graven image, by definition, is an idol; an object of worship carved from wood, stone, etc.

The original word for “graven image” in this context is lop, transliterated Pecel which, by definition, is carved idol. This is a different usage than Pacal which, by definition means to cut, hew, hew into shape or quarry.

Now if you want to take two English words out of the context in which they are found, and say that they could mean something else…well, yes, they could, but not in this context.

The God of Exodus seemed a tad confused:

In The Bible, we are first introduced to serpents in Egypt when Moses casts his rod cum reptile in front of pharaoh's belly crawler promptly devouring same. Moses’ serpent story is intended to relay the fear Egyptians had of these creatures. While wondering through the desert the Israelites came into contact with many, as is evidenced in Numbers 8:6:9, where the Lord sent fiery serpents causing many deaths. When the people approached Moses about this, God bade him to make a fiery serpent and place it on a pole, where anyone who is bitten and looks upon it will survive, and Moses made a brass serpent and placed it on a pole.

It is rather perplexing that God would command such a thing considering his absolute detestation of graven images, he needs only command Moses to touch the inflicted to be healed.

According to II Kings 18:4, the righteous king Hezekiah of Judea, took offense to this serpent rod of Moses, and broke it into pieces, as it seems it was revered as an idol.

I don't doubt there are aliens somewhere out there in this vast universe, but research leads me to conclude the Biblical God stories are the Egyptian myths revised.


[edit on 3/8/05 by SomewhereinBetween]

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
According to II Kings 18:4, the righteous king Hezekiah of Judea, took offense to this serpent rod of Moses, and broke it into pieces, as it seems it was revered as an idol.

Yes, we too, as a people, make objects into idols. Objects that originally had another purpose can become idols. Some modern day churches revere their relics and antiques so much that they have become idols. Some modern day people revere their money, cars, stars, selves, so much that those things have become idols.

That doesn’t mean that the original objects were made to be an idol, only that they became an idol after we started worshiping them.

Originally posted by NoPhobosYes, we too, as a people, make objects into idols. Objects that originally had another purpose can become idols. Some modern day churches revere their relics and antiques so much that they have become idols. Some modern day people revere their money, cars, stars, selves, so much that those things have become idols.

That doesn’t mean that the original objects were made to be an idol, only that they became an idol after we started worshiping them.

We can look at it this way, yes. Imagine it taking that long to stop the idolatry. When confronted with texts such as I provided usually such excuses pop up, as it is never the rational thought as to why God would in fact issue such an edict to Moses to stop that which he himself started...the snake bites. So many choices; stop the attacks by the serpents; provide the hands-on healing powers or instruct Moses to make a wand. Choices, choices, choices, too many complicated choices it seems.

I suppose the cherubim guarding the arc are not idolatrous in nature either, and all that gold and precious gems used in the temples, my, God was a miner at heart I suppose. anything look familiar in that photo?

There are far better as published in book form by this will have to do, so what about this one?http://witcombe.sbc.edu/snakegoddess/snakesegypt.html

An interesting adornment is the Uraeus and when it came to symbolize what it symbolizes. I call it Moses redux.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
usually such excuses pop up, as it is never the rational thought as to why God would in fact issue such an edict to Moses to stop that which he himself started...the snake bites.

It was not an excuse, as you put it; it was an unsuccessful attempt to explain the difference between an image or a statue, and an idol. The key to this difference as found in Exodus "You shall not bow down yourself to them, nor serve them." God did not mean the Israelites could not draw or create symbols. He prohibits serving, or worshipping them.

As far as a rational thought on the snake bites: they spoke badly of God, He punished them for a time with the snakes, they came to Moses for help, Moses prayed to God, and God gave them an “out.” Rational enough?

I suppose the cherubim guarding the arc are not idolatrous in nature either

Are you suggesting that angles on a box that only one man, the High Priest, could see once a year on the Day of Atonement were worshiped? I haven’t read anything about the people being instructed to worship anything but God.

The key again is: Did God intend for the gold statues of angles on the Arc or the temple adornments to be worshiped “as gods”?

An interesting adornment is the Uraeus and when it came to symbolize what it symbolizes. I call it Moses redux.

Yep, Moses was raised by Egyptians, and the Israelites spent a little time there too. I would imagine that a lot of Egyptian culture came along with them into the wilderness.