The Drake Equation Fallacy

a reply to: carsforkids

I remember a certain Eric Von Daniken in one of his books made a great job of adding to that equation

a reply to: Barcs

We have ancient information written by primitive humans that knew nothing about the world.

There is physical archaeological evidence all over the world that
the ancients you refer to as being " Primitive" were highly sophisticated!
For cripe sakes you aren't even being realistic with that BS. The whole
ancient aliens farce just takes the watchers in the book of Enoch and
morphs them in to aliens. I could go on by why should I. That statement
is a fallacy if not completely stupid. And you should know better.

There is evidence of other habitable planets in our galaxy. We can't investigate because of insufficient technology, so it's a bit silly to make such a statement. Trust me, it's only a matter of time before life is discovered elsewhere. I'd bet that remnants of it will eventually be found on Mars, Venus and more than one moon in our solar system. But you have to be patient and let science investigate, these things take years to put together.

That's not an argument. And how do you have evidence if you can't investigate you have no evidence.

a reply to: neformore

This is why I - personally - can't accept a divine being as the basis of everything. I certainly can't accept a book of political ideology written by humans as evidence of one.

See this is just more bias, proof of your indoctrination I would even
say. Everything we have that is written was written by humans.
All your documentations, " The origin of species " all inspired
writings. EVERYTHING! But you can't accept a book (that shows
CAUSE for all the pre existing mechanics of CREATION, that science
only uses to postulate a bunch of concocted nonsensical ideas from )
because it was written by humans.

That just makes me want to scream in you ear! Whom dear and wise
person would you prefer to have written scripture?

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: Jay-morris

Jesus Christ is documented historically and the Bible is a document.

And your saying they aren't is wrong.

Ufo cases are documented, does that mean it's scientific evidence? Are you being serious? Things are documented all the time, does not make it evidence or reliable. That is just stupid!

originally posted by: stonerwilliam
a reply to: carsforkids

I remember a certain Eric Von Daniken in one of his books made a great job of adding to that equation

Yes he and many others use it quite often and I am still fascinated
by the whole ancient alien hypothesis. I watch it verify my own
thoughts on this topic. As it takes the viewer around the world to
all the megalithic sites that prove without question the pre existing
information in the book of Enoch. That I am free to believe are
remnants of a pre diluvian world. Civilizations that archaeology
can make no sense of because all knowledge of them was washed
from human memory. Everything this world offers scientists is
pre existing. And the way I see it that even goes for science itself.
It is just mans attempt to fulfill an ancient promise. It is the promise
of the serpent that the ancients worshiped in place of God. That we
shall be like God. That is the goal of science laid down by those who
control what academia teaches it's most unfortunate pupils. They
simply go and pay great amounts of money to be lied to. It all fits
and makes perfect sense. But I myself have " Figured out " nothing
and no I don't believe I have all the answers. I just love the road
less traveled.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Ufo cases are documented, does that mean it's scientific evidence? Are you being serious? Things are documented all the time, does not make it evidence or reliable. That is just stupid!

Maybe it is I'll with hold judgement. But I'd be careful of the words
you throw around. Because you're living in a glass house in case you
didn't notice.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: Jay-morris

Ufo cases are documented, does that mean it's scientific evidence? Are you being serious? Things are documented all the time, does not make it evidence or reliable. That is just stupid!

Maybe it is I'll with hold judgement. But I'd be careful of the words
you throw around. Because you're living in a glass house in case you
didn't notice.

Not at all! My point is, that it's not evidence. It's not certain. Because something is documented does not make it real, or evidence. That much is pretty much obvious.

Every religon has documented stuff, has so called witnesess, but they all have one thing in common, no evidence. What we do know is people believed in God's and higher beings long before Christianity was around. That much is true.

a reply to: Jay-morris

So you're not living in a glass house?
Then level the playing field and give me your account of emergence.
Minus all the myths of evolution and philosophical naturalism that have
already been brought to great awareness in this very thread.

Explain it all to me with evidence that you haven't already deemed STUPID?
I'll wait.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: Jay-morris

So you're not living in a glass house?
Then level the playing field and give me your account of emergence.
Minus all the myths of evolution and philosophical naturalism that have
already been brought to great awareness in this very thread.

Explain it all to me with evidence that you haven't already deemed STUPID?
I'll wait.

Sorry, you are not making any sense! I have explained what you have said is not evidence, which you seemed to have ignored. I mentioned that all religon has witnesess and documentation, which you ignored. I mentioned that people believed in God's way before Christianity, which you ignored.

It is obvious that the bible, was written by primitive men. You really think God is that dumb, sexist, anti gay, pro slavery etc etc? All these things are from what human beings were like back then. And do not get me started on the stupid dumb stories in the bible (Jonah)

People will always believe in religon and gods. And each of these people believe their religon is the true religon. Like you, they will back this up with evidence, then is not evidence.

Same old same old!

a reply to: Jay-morris

I asked you to level the playing field.
But I'm ignoring what was in your reply? lol

What's wrong? If you can't do what I'm asking then how
can you say anything is stupid? How do scholars prove anything
without documentation? Documented evidence is evidence. and
it isn't stupid because you say so. I'm making perfect sense. Maybe
not to you.

Still waiting for your non stupid explanation of how we got here

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: Jay-morris

I asked you to level the playing field.
But I'm ignoring what was in your reply? lol

What's wrong? If you can't do what I'm asking then how
can you say anything is stupid? How do scholars prove anything
without documentation? Documented evidence is evidence. and
it isn't stupid because you say so. I'm making perfect sense. Maybe
not to you.

Still waiting for your non stupid explanation of how we got here

LOL Sorry, but you said documentation was evidence that proves your belief about Jesus and God. Please explain how it proves what you are saying? It's a simple question.

You are using documentation, which a lot of it was written years after, and you are calling this evidence?

There have been documented cases of people seeing fairies. So, is this evidence that fairies are real. Can't you see the fault in your logic here?

a reply to: carsforkids

Still waiting for your non stupid explanation of how we got here

Because we do not yet understand how we got here, and what this all means, is not evidence of a God!

Sigh!

a reply to: Jay-morris

Because we do not yet understand how we got here, and what this all means, is not evidence of a God!

There is a huge difference between what you don't understand
and what I do understand because of God. Which leads me to a previous
statement I already inferred. What you and all of science claims is not
evidence to you or even science. Because it isn't good enough. Doesn't
make it not good enough evidence for me period. Science only uses
empirical evidence by it's protocols. A courtroom wouldn't declare the
same.

Explained

Documented eye witness accounts of the paranormal aren't even comparable
to the existence of Jesus Christ as documented both historically and in the
Bible. To deny his existence on this earth walking in plain view before men.
is only ridiculous. So Jesus Christ existed he was crucified and the rest is
for you to figure out. As for me it wasn't hard at all.

I can site that as evidence in any conversation I choose when I have never
heard an argument make more sense then what I believe. Science hasn't come
close to explaining anything as you have admitted. And it has uses myth
in desperation to fancy evolution's popularity. And you think I should let
science or you tell me what is good enough evidence? My faith in my Father
is far stronger than he who is in the world. I have seen nothing come close
to casting even the slightest doubt on what I believe.

I have never found a lie come from scripture. So I have every reason to
believe it.

You believe God is a lie because people who lie told you it's a lie and then
believe the obvious lies they use to fill a void simply because it frees you
from authority over your life. It just makes life easier doesn't it? You saying
God doesn't exist doesn't make it the truth. You'll see.

You try to tell me what not to or what to believe when by your own admission
you don't shlt about it

originally posted by: neformore

OK.

So, assuming there is a supreme being how did it come into existence?

Are you willing to consider the possibility that this "supreme being" has always existed? That is after all how the God in the Bible is described.

We're getting deep into theology here, but that - to me - is the fallacy of creation vs the development over time of bio chemistry.

Not that deep. "development over time of biochemistry" is not an explanation to the question regarding the origin of life. Entropy and decay is development over time, but it will never turn nonliving molecules into lifeforms, it's the opposite direction. Therefore that description does not stand in opposition to "creation", an actual explanation for the origin of life.

Still evading an honest description of the evolutionary storyline proposed as an explanation for the origin of life I see. Keeping it vague and general. Leaving out the causal factors for this supposed "development over time" and no longer specifying what kind of development over time is implied or suggested (from nonliving matter to living organisms, from raw material to machinery, from disorder to order; the exact opposite of the observed effect the forces of nature have on things like machinery if left to chance).

Watch "Gradual Change of Things" or "Development" (Over Time) in Action

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: Jay-morris

Because we do not yet understand how we got here, and what this all means, is not evidence of a God!

There is a huge difference between what you don't understand
and what I do understand because of God. Which leads me to a previous
statement I already inferred. What you and all of science claims is not
evidence to you or even science. Because it isn't good enough. Doesn't
make it not good enough evidence for me period. Science only uses
empirical evidence by it's protocols. A courtroom wouldn't declare the
same.

Explained

Documented eye witness accounts of the paranormal aren't even comparable
to the existence of Jesus Christ as documented both historically and in the
Bible. To deny his existence on this earth walking in plain view before men.
is only ridiculous. So Jesus Christ existed he was crucified and the rest is
for you to figure out. As for me it wasn't hard at all.

I can site that as evidence in any conversation I choose when I have never
heard an argument make more sense then what I believe. Science hasn't come
close to explaining anything as you have admitted. And it has uses myth
in desperation to fancy evolution's popularity. And you think I should let
science or you tell me what is good enough evidence? My faith in my Father
is far stronger than he who is in the world. I have seen nothing come close
to casting even the slightest doubt on what I believe.

I have never found a lie come from scripture. So I have every reason to
believe it.

You believe God is a lie because people who lie told you it's a lie and then
believe the obvious lies they use to fill a void simply because it frees you
from authority over your life. It just makes life easier doesn't it? You saying
God doesn't exist doesn't make it the truth. You'll see.

You try to tell me what not to or what to believe when by your own admission
you don't shlt about it

LOL that is not evidence of a God!!!!! Your belief is clouding your judgement. In the bible the earth was made in 7 days. We know that to be rubbish! The earth is not the centre of the universe! We know that for a fact. Why doesn't the bible talk about dinosaurs, germs, micro life etc etc Because people back tgenvdid not know about these things, hence it is not in the bible!

As for Jesus, he may have existed. Obviously tales of Jesus have been exaggerated. The story people told over and over again, hundreds of years after the event.

That is not evidence of Jesus (if he existed) doing anything special. Just handed down stories that get more extraordinary Every time they are told.

Even though you ignore most of my points, simply because you cannot answer them, the basic fact is this. Stories and hearsay is not evidence.

Are stories and hearsay evidence now? Of course it is not!

Also, would like to add this. If that God is real, and all the stupid stories in the bible real, I would be absolutly gutted! Why? Because then I would know God is a sexist, racist, anti gay, pro slavery, pro sacrifice (Even children) arragont, ignorant, and primitive.why the hell would I worship a God like that? Why would you?

All those things I mentioned about God, are just how people were back then. If that does not tell you that God is man made, I do not know what will.

But then again, people like you, it's like talking to a brick wall!

a reply to: Jay-morris

Well I hope you feel better now that your hate has been displayed
so well. I knew it would come. And it examples perfectly everything
I said in regards to the bias that has infected your reasoning. You believe
the lies and I don't that is truly the bottom line. I hope you're not to
upset. You've provided nothing to sway anything I've stated and certainly
nothing of what I believe about this world. Or the supreme being who
obviously accounts for it.

a reply to: carsforkids

Well I hope you feel better now that your hate has been displayed
so well. I knew it would come. And it examples perfectly everything
I said in regards to the bias that has infected your reasoning. 

Hate? All the horrible things I mentioned are in the bible. Do you deny that? Are you the type that likes to cherry pick the bible, and just ignore the horrible stuff written in there?

I said in regards to the bias that has infected your reasoning. You believe
the lies and I don't that is truly the bottom line. I hope you're not to
upset. 

What lies? You have tried to use evidence, that is not evidence. I never claimed to know all the answers, as no one does, not even you. The problem I have is what you class as proof.

You've provided nothing to sway anything I've stated and certainly
nothing of what I believe about this world. Or the supreme being who
obviously accounts for it.

I know I was not going to sway you! It's rare to sway a religous person to actually think without belief. You are a good example of that.

Believe what you want, as long as you are not hurting anyone or pushing it on other people, that's ok. But please don't state evidence that is not evidence of a higher being, because there is no evidence to back that up, only faith.

a reply to: Jay-morris

I answered your question about evidence. All you had to retort was that's
not evidence. You seem to think you can command the conversation to
turn out the way you want it to. The whole world is evidence for creation
so the question is rather absurd in to begin with. Again just because you
say it isn't evidence doesn't mean shlt to me.

And then you lash out angrily and blaspheme your hate reasoned by
a biased childish opinion. Then you even continue " Talking to a wall"?

But I'm the one pushing? That's a real giggle.
When you haven't even leveled the playing field as I asked of you. What I
believe is the only thing subject to scrutiny in this conversation. Because
you cower from the opportunity to reveal your superior explanation for
existence. The only thing you''ve done is mock a God you don't believe in.
Insist on what you judge to be evidence like some Tyrant. And try to prove
I'm wrong with some hokey pieced together pile of crap excuse for anything
but creation.

I don't even have to do the kind of work WHAT IS LOGIC does to recognize
BS when I read it. But I guess that's okay with you? I'm sorry I don't agree
with your silly critique of God either. But I see no reason to extend this
conversation. Because you believe in nothing and you got nothing.

Jesus Christ is Lord I'm sorry you haven't figure that out yet. But I have
faith that you will.

a reply to: carsforkids

I answered your question about evidence. All you had to retort was that's
not evidence.

I explained why it was not evidence. I even gave you examples, but you ignored them.

You seem to think you can command the conversation to
turn out the way you want it to. The whole world is evidence for creation

So God decided to make trillions of stars and planets, just for the sake of it! Do you know how stupid that sounds? It's just a matter of time before we find life outside our planet. Even a good chance we will find life in our own solar system. Because something cannot be fully explained, does not mean an old dude with a beard created everything lol

Again just because you
say it isn't evidence doesn't mean shlt to me.

Off course it does not mean sh#t to you! Like I said, it's like talking to a brick wall!

And then you lash out angrily and blaspheme your hate reasoned by
a biased childish opinion. Then you even continue " Talking to a wall"?

Have you actually read the bible? Are you saying it's all peace and live in the bible? Seriously?

The only thing you''ve done is mock a God you don't believe in.
Insist on what you judge to be evidence like some Tyrant. And try to prove
I'm wrong with some hokey pieced together pile of crap excuse for anything
but creation.

Why should I not mock God? He agrees slavery, he is sexist, anti gay, loves sacrifices, wants people to adore and lice him, if they don't, they will burn in hell. What would you call a human that had those traits? You would call them a sociopath!

Jesus Christ is Lord I'm sorry you haven't figure that out yet. But I have
faith that you will.

I suggest you actually read the bible! If you need to believe in a sociopathic God to help you sleep at night, then that's up to you. It's your life!

So essentially we went from debating the accuracy/reliability of the Drake equation, to assuming that superpowers such as living outside of literal space time as well as commanding the fundamental fabric of reality not only are real, but are fully at the disposal of a poorly defined creation figure known only as "god".

And this is a much more reliable mathematical expression than the Drake equation? Am I keeping up so far?