Arrested Fortuna High Students Targeted ‘Fairly Large Group,’

Though it’s early in the investigation, Dobberstein said he believes the arrested students planned to target numerous others. “It’s a fairly large group of individuals,” Dobberstein said, though he opted to not identify them at this time. “Again, I’m not going to get into numbers because that’s going to get into the evidence that we obtained and I don’t want to taint the case.”

lostcoastoutpost.com...

There's been a few "attempted" acts of terror lately. Looks like Dems are trying to steer attention away from their impending Doom.

I live 20 miles from this school and we're in a very small community on the coast. Don't know if this was part of the bigger agenda from the anti-gun, anti-freedom, anti-everything groups or just a couple of misguided kids. Either way it's happening way to often. What happened to the days when conflicts were resolved through a little scuffle? Everyone walks away with a some bruises.

a reply to: SilentWindofDoom

Since when have acts of terror been partisan ?

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Since they were used to try to take away our freedoms, and we aren't allowed to talk about what is causing kids to do this, it's just guns are bad.

We have a problem in our culture that needs to be addressed and taking away guns and rights won't solve it.

a reply to: SilentWindofDoom

A little background -- you know, like the who, what, when, where, why and how -- is always helpful before casting stones for cheap political points. I had absolutely no idea what your OP is even about... So from your link:

A few dozen parents and members of the media attended a quickly planned press conference at the Fortuna River Lodge Wednesday. The gathering followed news that a pair of Fortuna High School students had been taken into custody after school administration and law enforcement were alerted to a plan to harm other students.

“The two individuals who were implicated in this plot were taken into the office,” Dobberstein said. “During the investigation we located evidence on their person that was consistent with what was being told to school officials. After some further investigation those two individuals were placed into custody and taken to Juvenile Hall later in the evening.”

Very sad and disturbing. But I doubt it's part of a nefarious Black Ops plan to take guns. When the known facts change, maybe my opinion will change.

a reply to: Boadicea

Of course not. The problem is not that this was planned by progressives to remove guns, the problem is it (or stories like it) are and will be used by them for that purpose.

When was the last time this happened and progressives said 'we need to find out why this is happening and what is causing these kids to do this and correct it'? Trump said it is a mental health issue, and it is. He was lambasted by progressives and the media for saying it.

"Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun," President Donald Trump said soon after the recent mass shootings in Texas and Ohio that left 31 dead.

Experts say that's completely wrong.

abcnews.go.com...

So apparently these shooters are all fine, and have no hate. We can't talk about hate and the issues that drive kids to do this, experts have spoken. It's the guns.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Boadicea

Of course not. The problem is not that this was planned by progressives to remove guns, the problem is it (or stories like it) are and will be used by them for that purpose.

So the appropriate course of action is beat them to the punch and make their case for them??? Please. This isn't about progressives and it's intellectually and factually dishonest to pretend it is.

This OP is all about cheap political points. This OP is no more concerned with root causes and best solutions than what you are accusing progressives of doing. Progressives can and will speak for themselves. Their words will speak for them. The OP's words, and your words, speak for you. Not progressives. And in this case, the OP's words and your words only highlight the progressive's positions. Neither of you have offered anything else. Much less anything better.

When was the last time this happened and progressives said 'we need to find out why this is happening and what is causing these kids to do this and correct it'?

Where in the OP is the "we need to find out why this is happening and what it is causing these kids to do this and correct it?" No where. Two sides of the same coin.

Trump said it is a mental health issue, and it is. He was lambasted by progressives and the media for saying it.

So? Pretty much anything and everything anyone says can and will be lambasted by someone. That's the nature of the beast.

So apparently these shooters are all fine, and have no hate. We can't talk about hate and the issues that drive kids to do this, experts have spoken. It's the guns.

Shall I call the waaaambulance for you? Of course people can talk about hate and other issues and do ALL THE TIME!!! You're talking it about it right now. People can and do say what they will and lots of people spew lots of crap. Experts spew lots of crap. Boo fricking hoo.

Everyone's words speak for themselves and only themselves. And then they stand on their own merit.

a reply to: Boadicea

I already agreed with you the OP was dishonest in their post and the idea this was orchestrated is silly.

But let's not act like these tragedies are not being used for a political agenda. It's an agenda that prevents finding a real solution and addressing the real problems. I just sourced Trump saying the problem is hate and mental health issues, and the 'experts' and the media saying that is not the problem. So they would have you believe these kids have no hate and are mentally fine .. guns are the problem. Apparently if you touch one you can't stop yourself.

Until we are allowed to talk about the actual problem there will never be an actual solution, and my personal belief is that progressives are fine with that because they love the power these tragedies give them in pushing their agendas. Otherwise, they would be looking at real solutions.

Even though the 'experts' and the media could not help themselves jumping on Trump, the 'experts' actually agree mental health is the real problem.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Boadicea

I already agreed with you the OP was dishonest in their post and the idea this was orchestrated is silly.

But let's not act like these tragedies are not being used for a political agenda....[snip]...Until we are allowed to talk about the actual problem there will never be an actual solution...

But we are "allowed" to talk about actual solutions! We are "allowed" to talk about whatever we so choose!!! We just aren't allowed to stop others from talking about whatever they so choose.

And that's exactly what we should be doing. That's exactly what this OP should have done. Some people will spew nonsense about anything and everything. By all means, when folks spew nonsense, respond accordingly... but no good reason to pre-emptively spew their crap for them.

And especially not for cheap partisan political points.

Even though the 'experts' and the media could not help themselves jumping on Trump, the 'experts' actually agree mental health is the real problem.

Yes, "experts" do agree that mental health is a real problem... but what is causing the mental health issues? Who is going to address the many reasons that we have kids going off the deep end? Not Big Pharma, who would be happy to declare each and every one of us mentally impaired and in need of their poison pills... which, of course, experts also tell us is a big part of the problem. What do you want to bet these kids are on some kind of psychoactive meds? No? I don't blame you. I wouldn't take that bet either.

Are all the corporations poisoning our environment -- and our minds and bodies -- with their products going to raise their hands? Of course not.

Are the congress critters and regulators going to raise their hands? Of course not.

Are the educators going to raise their hands? Of course not.

Are the parents going to raise their hands? Of course not.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Anyone not addressing the roots of the problem is part of the problem.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Unless someone can find a link that gives some more details, we dont know crap! I didnt even see any mention of guns in the article. Did I miss it? But wam bam... let's go straight into an anti-liberal rant.
Care to clarify just who is using this story to promote a political agenda?
The fact that it was introduced to my consciousness in this way tends to make me want to assume these kids are probably white nationalists who's daddies had a small armory of various buns and ammo to choose from and some know this and are trying to twist the story before even the basic facts come out.
Again.. there is nothing in the link at all to give any indication as to what is going on!

Another thread trashed by nonsense political accusations.

a reply to: dawnstar

You completely missed the point of my post. I already said numerous times I disagree with the OP's interpretation. I said stories like this, which means not this one, are in fact used to push a liberal agenda.

I quoted and sourced liberals and the media attacking Trump for saying the problem is hatred and mental health issues, saying he is wrong. He's not.

That doesn't mean these events are being orchestrated. I find that to be a silly accusation not based in fact.

Questions.
Do you think a driving force of these attacks is hate?
Do you think mental trauma/anguish (being bullied, feeling like an outsider, feeling hopeless) plays an important role?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Oh, I think anyone who can open fire on complete strangers is a tad bit mentally I'll. But then I have to adjust that view to accommodate those who are serving in our military, dont I? So, maybe another factor might be the idea of protecting from a perceived enemy...
At least some who were in Charlottesville referred to Heather's death as being "collateral damage" in the war they were fighting. I kept up with that case alot, and there is an audio of this being said. So, if some of these shootings are being seen by the shooter as being an action in a war against an enemy that they see as a danger, while mental illness might be a part of it, but it's not the all of it. Where is the line drawn that separates those among us who have been convinced that the others are enemies that need to be stopped anyway they can to preserve their way of life and our military who are convinced that the have to fly a drone into a village and kill a bunch of people, except that the military's actions are based on govt accepted facts based on intelligence information.
It cant be just an issue of mental illness unless one comes to the conclusion that the "facts" and "intelligence" they are acting on is causing them to be delusional.. which leads to just where is these "facts" coming from?

Ya, there might be a feeling of being left out, a feeling of hopelessness but well, if you've been here long enough you've probably have read my postings where I tell some of my backstory. If you've been here long enough, you might know just how much I felt left out and hopeless.
Most of these kids are coming out of decent middle class families and I doubt if they lacked much of anything.
I have never, ever felt the inclinations to kill anyone, certainly not a bunch of people I didnt even know.
I would buy the idea that the drugs that are over prescribed for mental illness might play a significant role... but then classifying a bunch of people as mentally I'll and putting them on these meds would help that how?
I've been on those drugs, I cant claim that they will affect every one like they did me . My guess is that they dont. But with me, it kind of tore through my self restraint. I mean, there were some things that I kind of wanted to know that I just wouldn't do because they were stupid to do, or not really a nice thing to do, or just plain crazy. But. Well, what the heck, let's just do it.. I also got to the point where I couldn't figure out how to light a lighter...
Those drugs, along with video games offering hours of simulated war games, along with this political atmosphere where half of the population is being portrayed as anti-american, enemies of the state, ect. Could be just the recipe for what we are seeing.
But what the story in the op is about? I have no idea, get back to me when theres more information.
Heck a couple of kids in my hometown once designed a semi realistic fake bomb by the flagpole one morning as a joke which set off a few days worth of panic. Sometimes the answer is that kids can be rather dumb!

a reply to: SilentWindofDoom

Are there any additional reports?
I would like to hear more about this.

a reply to: dawnstar

Depends on the reason you are doing it. Some in the military might be there for the pleasure of doing it, in which case I would say there is something mentally wrong with them. It might be a healthy outlet though if they are only doing it when justified, although that is getting a bit off topic.

Most of the rest of the reasons you cited seem to fall under hatred.

Anyways, I want to get back to my point, which is the actual reason these shootings happen is not being addressed because these stories are being used to push a gun control agenda. We need to get back to why these occur, and it's not because of guns. Putting a gun in my hand will not result in me shooting a school. Would it cause you to shoot a school? If not then guns are not the cause, we need to look at the actual cause and address it. Stop using tragedies for political gain, fix the problem. This will not be a quick fix, once we start we will keep seeing these stories. The longer we wait the harder it will be. I am not interested in the politics or agendas, only solutions.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Not really hatred as much as fear at least in some cases.
Feed a group of people a diet consisting of how segment of the population is gonna destroy your way of life, they are a dangerous, violent group, they are your enemies enough, ya there might be a bit of hatred produced in them but I think there would be far more fear.

And, I dont think anyone wants to take away all the guns, well maybe some on the fringe do. But most know that hunting is an enjoyable past time for our friends and neighbors. We just dont see a need for a stockpile of altered semi-automatic rifles fit with silencers and such. I mean most hunters arent buying aks to go hunting with!

But let's say we conclude that it is a mental health issue..
Most mental health patients arent in the least bit threat! So, I dont see where that is very helpful.
Most gun shootings are probably done by criminals who shouldn't be having guns anyways and will have them regardless of what the laws are because well, they are criminals. But it's just not this group that is going around shooting up schools is it?

And, I am getting tired of political heads saying how the political rhetoric needs to be toned done.. ya, maybe it will last a day or two, heck if we are lucky, maybe it will last a week or two before it gets ratcheted back up to insanity producing levels.

So, what the answer is, I dont know. But letting the mass shootings continue while we try to figure it out should be the least favorite of options.

originally posted by: dawnstar

And, I dont think anyone wants to take away all the guns, well maybe some on the fringe do. But most know that hunting is an enjoyable past time for our friends and neighbors. We just dont see a need for a stockpile of altered semi-automatic rifles fit with silencers and such. I mean most hunters arent buying aks to go hunting with!

None of that is needed for shooting up a school, so it can't possibly do anything to stop the violence. So it has no place in a discussion on the topic.

Touching an AR-15 doesn't make anyone want to go shoot a school. Only 3 of the 24 shootings used a similar style weapon in 2018.
www.newsweek.com...

You can take a handgun and make it look/function similar to a rifle. These arguments only ensure the true problem is not discussed and no actual solution is found. That would serve progressives just fine though, lots of political points from these shootings.

I want you to prove me wrong, I truly do. Show me the Democrat plan/legislation that is about addressing the underlying cause rather than 'guns are bad'. Because as I sourced when Trump stated what the problem was they went crazy on him.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

But theres plenty of people classified as mentally I'll that are harmless, most of them more than likely.
So that leaves two issues, the drugs, and the fostering of hatred and fear.
And. I dont even remember trump raising hatred up as a possible cause.. just the mental illness. Ain't saying he hasn't, just that if he has, I haven't heard it enough for it to burn into my memory like the mental illness has. And, I will just say that I reject the idea that the mentally Ill should all be labeled as dangerous and policies be made to protect society from them. Nor should this be used as an excuse to add people into their brain altering drug experimentation.
And, as far as the fostering of hatred and fear... the political rhetoric, well good luck getting trump to tone it down.

So, it seems we have discussed, and hit a dead end. Cant make a move to keep the guns out of the violent persons hands. Cant lock up all the mentally challenged to keep society safe. Cant bring ourselves to tone down the political rhetoric. And, of course, cant do anything that would infringe on the drug company's right to grow their multi billion dollar industry be getting more people hooked on these drugs!!

a reply to: dawnstar

No one said, and Trump did not say, all mentally ill people shoot up schools. If you think there is a dead end it's because the progressives have pigeonholed your thinking. That's sad.

Look at the actual causes, bullying, marginalizing, creating hopelessness, outsiders. Then you work to mitigate those causes. When I was in school in the 90s bullying was a big issue. Very little has been done and it's actually worse now. We have teachers bullying, and administration doing nothing to stop bullying. This is unacceptable.

I dont even remember trump raising hatred up as a possible cause

That's because your news is propaganda and they focus on what they want you to remember. Right after they got done bashing Trump saying how wrong he was, they said the same things he said .. but still said Trump was wrong.

Mental illness and hatred pull the trigger, not the gun," President Donald Trump said

Fake news is hilarious.

a reply to: Boadicea

This OP is no more concerned with root causes and best solutions than what you are accusing progressives of doing.

So what?

It's his OP. Where does it say in the ATS T's & C's that posts have to have some sort of moral conscience? I guess you've decided to play that role for all of us?

No thanks - I can take care of myself and don't need to be told what is and isn't a "good post" to read.

As long as it's within the T's & C's we can all post what we like.

You're free to ignore it.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Boadicea

Trump said it is a mental health issue, and it is. He was lambasted by progressives and the media for saying it.

Ironically, when President Obama ordered the CDC to do gun violence research after Newtown (yes, the CDC can do research on gun violence. It is not banned from doing so, that's a lie perpetuated by the gun control lobby) one of the conclusions they came back with was that the mental health angle needs a serious look. That study was promptly ignored by President Obama, gun control advocates, and the media. See the link in my sig for more details.

They DO NOT CARE about solving it. It's all about gun control. Actually fixing the problem is not something they're interested in.