Yellow journalism a threat to democracy .

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: DanDanDat

The distinction between fact and opinion is the basis of my critique of the OP.

What's a specific example from the WaPo site of a truth-checker confusing fact and opinion?

Assuming we are talking about the same website. This is the first one that comes up at the top of the page.

OCT 09 2019

“A Total Scam by the Do Nothing Democrats. For the good of the Country, this Witch Hunt should end now!”

Repeated 26 times

Show details 

The issues raised by Trump's phone call with the Ukrainian president are serious. Trump now tosses that inquiry into his grievances over the Russian probe, which ended up documenting serious potential cases of obstruction of justice

There is no statement of fact in Trump's quote. It is his opinion that Democrats are running a do nothing Congress and that the investigations into him are a witch hunt.

He can ligimatly hold both of those opions even if every man, woman and child on earth disagree with him; and they still wouldn't be lies or suspect.

That items like this are included in the list delegitimize the entire list. Its an unforced error and an easy one to avoid or edited out upon review.

a reply to: Fallingdown

I stated that Trump said it in response to your first question.

You are asking me for an opinion not fact.

I'm beginning to see that you really don't understand the difference.

Here's my OPINION: Yes, Trump meant it exactly as he said it. He offered a hypothetical expressing nature of his cult-like following. Was he threatening to shoot someone? Nah.

Now, I answered your question, answer mine. I'm not going to cross-post from one of your other threads, that's against T&C.

So pick a lie from the WaPo site that you think is a lie and demonstrate factually why you think so.

a reply to: Gryphon66

By their standards I cited 237 of them in the OP.

Would you like it in braille ?🤦‍♂️

Now show me examples from Fox News bet you can’t .

GN

a reply to: Gryphon66

You are asking me for an opinion not fact.

Yep I’m asking you for your opinion on his statement .

Go.......

a reply to: DanDanDat

I hestiate to point out to you that your dissent is an opinion not fact. But moving on.

Trump did make the claim. The claim is not true. The inquiry into the President's call with Ukraine exists and is reviewing factual data. There is no scam and the Witch Hunt discovered plenty of witches.

You can use that logic to claim that any statement made by anyone is merely their opinion and therefore cannot be judged as true or not true.

That is simply not true.

originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: Gryphon66

You are asking me for an opinion not fact.

Yep I’m asking you for your opinion on his statement .

Go.......

See the post you replied to.

a reply to: DanDanDat

Did you look at the thread I did ?

I chose the first three examples at random .

By their standard I debunked 237 lies .

originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: DanDanDat

Did you look at the thread I did ?

I chose the first three examples at random .

By their standard I debunked 237 lies .

I did look at your thread.

You did not use the FactCheck Database at WaPo standard, because you didn't cite a single source that backed up your claims, you gave your opinion, and generally, an opinion based on semantics and fallacious logic.

You made claims here in this thread, and I asked you to back up the claims made here in this thread.

Citing your previous work is claiming that you are your own authority ... which is fallacious.

PS, are we to the trap part yet?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: Gryphon66

I’ve got another example

Did you really think Trump was going to shoot someone on fifth Avenue ?

Wait I’ve got another !

Did you believe CNN when they said it was illegal to look at wikileak ?

Trump made that comment; ask him.

President Trump was quoting a newspapaer that said "Trump could shoot sommeone dead on 5th avenue and his base would still support him"

it was not a statement made by Trump so that is a lie as well.

originally posted by: thedigirati

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: Gryphon66

I’ve got another example

Did you really think Trump was going to shoot someone on fifth Avenue ?

Wait I’ve got another !

Did you believe CNN when they said it was illegal to look at wikileak ?

Trump made that comment; ask him.

President Trump was quoting a newspapaer that said "Trump could shoot sommeone dead on 5th avenue and his base would still support him"

it was not a statement made by Trump so that is a lie as well.

What newspaper? When?

a reply to: Gryphon66

I was wrong it was a misquote on my part

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: DanDanDat

I hestiate to point out to you that your dissent is an opinion not fact. But moving on.

Trump did make the claim. The claim is not true. The inquiry into the President's call with Ukraine exists and is reviewing factual data. There is no scam and the Witch Hunt discovered plenty of witches.

You can use that logic to claim that any statement made by anyone is merely their opinion and therefore cannot be judged as true or not true.

That is simply not true.

Sorry Gryphon66 that argument does not hold water. You are disagreeing for arguments sake, and there is no reason too, I am not trying to trap you in anything.

The President said "the investigation is a witch hunt"

He did not say "inquiry into my call to the Ukraine does not exist"

Had he said the second statement you would be correct; it would be a lie because the inquiry is clearly being carried out.

The first statement is an opinion; its a personal judgement that is based on factual events. Yes there is an inquiry going on and yes the president thinks the inquiry is a witch hunt. No one need agree with him for him to hold that opinion and his opinion can not be a lie. He can even be 100% guilty of the crimes he is being accused of and his opinion about the inquiry would still not be a lie if he ligimatly held it.

He's not quoting a newspaper.

Watch it with your own eyes. He cites "the polls" and talks about how loyal "his people are."

a reply to: Gryphon66

Here's my OPINION: Yes, Trump meant it exactly as he said it. He offered a hypothetical expressing nature of his cult-like following. Was he threatening to shoot someone? Nah.

It was a joke .

The first clue was that people laughed.

So pick a lie from the WaPo site that you think is a lie and demonstrate factually why you think so.

You’ve read my OP and you’re trying to play games.

Pick one you can debunk.

The fact that you won’t proves that you can’t refute my position .

Hey I’ve got a great idea !!!

You said cross posting is against terms and conditions.

Meet me on that thread and show me how smart you are .

a reply to: DanDanDat

Your claim is "the statement made by Mr. Trump is an opinion and therefore cannot be true or false."

Neither the Mueller Report nor the current investigations are "witch hunts" as both have dealt with verifiable facts that are either true or not true.

Trump's edited transcript very clearly shows that the Ukranian President asked Trump to be able to buy weapons and Trump said let me ask you to do something for us. Is that a violation of campaign finance law? Is it morally reprehensiable? Maybe or maybe not, but there will be a finding one way or the other.

I'm not going to argue from the dictionary.

An opinion is a statement that may or may not be true based on the facts.

A fact is either true or not based on basic principles of logic, meaning, syntax, etc.

Trump made none of the verbal cues that denote an opinion, he made a straightforward statement and he has said basically the same thing dozens if not hundreds of time.

An opinion is still true or not. A fact is always true based on evidence.

I'm not sure that we have anything more to discuss ... this is pretty primal stuff.

a reply to: Fallingdown

Again, you're expressing your opinion, not a fact.

People laugh at uncomfortable statements, unpleasant truths, etc. Laughter does not always automatically prove jokes.

So ... your traps are all set and sprung and I'm still moving.

I'm good to leave it at an agreement to disagree.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You did not use the FactCheck Database at WaPo standard

If my answers were just opinions and I didn’t state any facts. It should be easy for you to pick one of the three positions to debunk.

What’s the hold up ?

a reply to: Fallingdown

Wow you can screenshot and cut and paste. Do you think that proves anything?

Awesome.

I may get around to playing on your other thread tomorrow. I've agreed to disagree with you.

Now, crow about trapping me or whatever else makes you feel better, LOL.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: DanDanDat

Your claim is "the statement made by Mr. Trump is an opinion and therefore cannot be true or false."

Neither the Mueller Report nor the current investigations are "witch hunts" as both have dealt with verifiable facts that are either true or not true.

Trump's edited transcript very clearly shows that the Ukranian President asked Trump to be able to buy weapons and Trump said let me ask you to do something for us. Is that a violation of campaign finance law? Is it morally reprehensiable? Maybe or maybe not, but there will be a finding one way or the other.

I'm not going to argue from the dictionary.

An opinion is a statement that may or may not be true based on the facts.

A fact is either true or not based on basic principles of logic, meaning, syntax, etc.

Trump made none of the verbal cues that denote an opinion, he made a straightforward statement and he has said basically the same thing dozens if not hundreds of time.

An opinion is still true or not. A fact is always true based on evidence.

I'm not sure that we have anything more to discuss ... this is pretty primal stuff.

I would agree, it does seem as though we are at an impasse; despite Congress only now conducting its inquiry into the Ukraine call and not yet having made any factual conclusions on Trumps guilt, nor has it kept us the public apprised of all the facts in the case; you have prematurely deemed one of a few possible natives that has come out over the investigation to be "verifiable". You than make the even more extraordinary leap that anyone holding a different opinion are lieing when they state their opinion.

This certainly is pretty primal stuff; you do not yet have all the facts but want to claim other peoples opinions are true or not true.

I seem to recall you making the argument:

Further, is it true if you like it and false if you don't? 

Because honestly, that seems to be the measure of truth and "fake news" in 99% of these posts (estimated.)

You should probably heed your own warning.

a reply to: Gryphon66

People laugh at uncomfortable statements, unpleasant truths, etc. Laughter does not always automatically prove jokes.

Show me one instance where a large group of up to 1000 people uncomfortably laughed in unison . Till you do that it’s only an opinion .

Why haven’t you proven any of the three lies I debunked from the Washington post fact check database are wrong.

I really wish you would come debate me on that thread .

I apologize the steel spring of that trap has sprung on you and left you completely defenseless while staggering around in circles . If you join be there in debate I’ll release the trap slowly what talking quietly to calm you . Then you won’t need to face the alternative of gnawing your leg off so you can escape .

BTW

You kind of skipped over the whole wiki leaks are illegal to view post .

What’s up with that ?

I'm good to leave it at an agreement to disagree.

Nope i’m not done with you yet. I can tell you’re just trying to mess with me.

Best part is you think you’re doing better than you are and that makes it more fun . 😇