Nasa lies about Mars atmosphere.Helicopter to fly in Mars" 0.6Percent of earths atmosphere"

a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth

No it doesn't have to be. Hellas Planitia has an atmosphere the equivalent of 11.5 millibars. That's the equivalent of 98,000 feet on earth. Aircraft have been flown at that altitude with no problems.

a reply to: carewemust

How can sandstorms be formed in a near vacuum, you should get them on the Moon in that case. How can clouds form around Olympus Mons. Their should not be enough atmosphere for them to float on. Looks like the atmosphere might be a lot thicker. Can you see the atmosphere like a fuzziness in telescopic shots?

originally posted by: Bhadhidar
You might be making an unfounded assumption about the Mars copter rotors.

Look into the design of the propeller blades used on the battery-powered Helios aircraft, and check out the atmospheric density at the design ceiling for that craft and those “blades”.

Then reduce the gravity to Mars standard.

I worked with folks who took the Helios prop design and modified it to work at altitudes in excess of 100KFT.

Try those values for Mars-like gravity wells!

What you are talking now, is how to make blades as best as they can, aerodynamically. Well, guess what.

Bell, sikorsky, airbus, all have highest paid engineers on planet regarding rotor aerodynamics, on which is best one. If nasa somehow made a new blade model which grabs several tens of times more material through them with a same engine and same rpm than anything created before, these companies would copy. But they arent. Cause it aint about the blade.

Nasa is probably lying. You would have far less drag on the props, but yould have to spin them awful fast to get any lift

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: carewemust

How can sandstorms be formed in a near vacuum, you should get them on the Moon in that case. How can clouds form around Olympus Mons. Their should not be enough atmosphere for them to float on. Looks like the atmosphere might be a lot thicker. Can you see the atmosphere like a fuzziness in telescopic shots?

Perhaps since we view everything relative to what we see on Earth, we think/believe the process of (whatever) must work that way on Mars too.

That's why I get a chuckle when scientists use a rigid set of parameters to determine if "life" can exist in a given environment. I hope a creature native to outer-space is found some day. Earth scientists will blow a mental gasket, trying wrap their minds around the existence of what they thought was 100% totally impossible.

a reply to: visitedbythem

It's a coaxial rotor design. That type of rotor eliminates the dissymetry of lift you see with a conventional rotor, resulting in more lift with the same size rotor.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Nasa is probably lying. You would have far less drag on the props, but yould have to spin them awful fast to get any lift

I think there was thread on ATS many years ago where the OP argued why the lunar module couldn't have taken off from the Moon, because there is no atmosphere to push against. Maybe when gravity is really low, there's no need for a lot of lift to be present?

a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth


If it can fly on earth it would be easier on mars. your math is strange first what creates lift on rotors is called collective basically the rotors can tilt. in a helicopter collective can be increased until you get lift. Remeber a helicopter isnt about moving air it is about creating a low-pressure area above the craft. If say you have half the atmosphere means you have to set the collective higher the speed is not necessary to change at all though you can get an additional lift.


And you went the wrong direction in your math mars has about 38 percent of earths gravity. That means it weighs .6 kilograms on mars or for us a little over 1 pound. this is an incredibly light drone I have one thats 8 times that.

Here is a lift calculator if you want to take the time to check lift on mars. www.wolframalpha.com...

And this will help you figure out atmospheric density by altitude on mars.

www.braeunig.us...

a reply to: carewemust

A helicopter rotor "loses" half its lift as the rotor rotates away from the direction of flight (from the halfway point towards the tail of the aircraft). The scout is a coaxial rotor design, meaning there are two rotors attached to one shaft, one above the other rotating in opposite directions. That design means that the equivalent of one entire rotor is always providing lift, generating more equivalent lift than a conventional rotor system.

originally posted by: SpaceBoyOnEarth

originally posted by: Bhadhidar
You might be making an unfounded assumption about the Mars copter rotors.

Look into the design of the propeller blades used on the battery-powered Helios aircraft, and check out the atmospheric density at the design ceiling for that craft and those “blades”.

Then reduce the gravity to Mars standard.

I worked with folks who took the Helios prop design and modified it to work at altitudes in excess of 100KFT.

Try those values for Mars-like gravity wells!

What you are talking now, is how to make blades as best as they can, aerodynamically. Well, guess what.

Bell, sikorsky, airbus, all have highest paid engineers on planet regarding rotor aerodynamics, on which is best one. If nasa somehow made a new blade model which grabs several tens of times more material through them with a same engine and same rpm than anything created before, these companies would copy. But they arent. Cause it aint about the blade.

Wrong!

It’s all about the blade.

And tip speed.

As Zaphod tried to tell you, calculating the lift for the rotors is complicated.

The companies you listed are focused on developing the best designs for the typical operating ceiling their craft is intended to fly; not the maximum altitude it can possibly fly.

Also consider that in an extremely low density atmosphere, blade tip speed is going to be critical to control; a thinner atmosphere means that the speed of sound is much lower.

Break Mach at your blade tip and you will likely shatter your blade.

Ever wonder why there aren’t many supersonic helicopters, IRL?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth

No it doesn't have to be. Hellas Planitia has an atmosphere the equivalent of 11.5 millibars. That's the equivalent of 98,000 feet on earth. Aircraft have been flown at that altitude with no problems.

Airplane yes, but we are talking about a helicopter here.
The current world record for absolute altitude achieved by a helicopter — 12,442 meters (40,820 feet), flown by a heavily modified SA 315 Lama — has stood for more than 45 years at this writing.

OP may have a point

a reply to: M5xaz

The post that I was replying to was about flying a plane on Mars though.

He actually doesn't. You have to take into account the lighter gravity, and the fact that the rotor design provides more lift than a conventional rotor will.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thank-you for taking the time to explain how the "scout" rotor design is configured...and WHY it's configured that way. You're a wealth of knowledge..always!

a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth
Of course it is about the blades.
The engines obviously can spin them faster, however there is a severe cavitation limit in the blade design vs atmospheric pressure that will always be a limitation.

I did write mars is 38% of earth.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth


If it can fly on earth it would be easier on mars. your math is strange first what creates lift on rotors is called collective basically the rotors can tilt. in a helicopter collective can be increased until you get lift. Remeber a helicopter isnt about moving air it is about creating a low-pressure area above the craft. If say you have half the atmosphere means you have to set the collective higher the speed is not necessary to change at all though you can get an additional lift.


And you went the wrong direction in your math mars has about 38 percent of earths gravity. That means it weighs .6 kilograms on mars or for us a little over 1 pound. this is an incredibly light drone I have one thats 8 times that.

Here is a lift calculator if you want to take the time to check lift on mars. www.wolframalpha.com...

And this will help you figure out atmospheric density by altitude on mars.

www.braeunig.us...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: M5xaz

The post that I was replying to was about flying a plane on Mars though.

He actually doesn't. You have to take into account the lighter gravity, and the fact that the rotor design provides more lift than a conventional rotor will.

Mars is only 38% of earths. Thats only 2.63 times lighter.

Mars atmosphere is 169 times lighter. 169 times divided with 2.63 is 64. No rotor design can compensate for it to be 64 times more efficient. You could put an engine which is 64 times more efficient, but then it would be likely 64 times more heavier.

Would not fly.


Point is: Nasa is cold bloodedly lying to people about Mars. Remember its the pentagon which controls nasa. State secret, not told to you.

Just wanted to make this thread so we can use our imaginations. Since Mars clearly has an atmosphere (unlike nasa lies to us) there must be allkinds of plants and who knows what, mushrooms, algae etc.

Also, why wont a helicopter fly to the same level here on earth where atmosphere is only 0.6% or 1% or 2% of sea level! Lets see a special rotor/blade version which can do that! It cant, not enough atoms to fly in! But it mystically works on mars!



I just used a calculator. Pressure at 20000M on earth is 0.79 PSI.
Mars Psi is 0.088

Why wont Nasa fly this special helicopter to 20000m. It should go there easily since its made to fly in specially low atmosphere!

BECAUSE ALL LIES OPEN EYES
Sorry for caps but, you see it better.

how can trust government agency with over 50 year track record of completely defrauding the public

with pulp fiction maskeraded as science?

never a straight answer! they changed the size too of mars drastically too.. the keep changing things when caught not computing with other claims.

therefore we can only consider what individuals at NASA claim then determine merit.

a reply to: SpaceBoyOnEarth

The Mars atmosphere is the equivalent of around 98,000 feet on earth. The scout helicopter weighs 4 pounds on earth. That's 1.5 pounds on earth. It has a coaxial rotor system with a blade diameter of just barely under 4 feet, turning between 1900 and 2800 rpm. That is enough, even low atmospheric conditions to generate lift for the flights it will be making.

The helicopter will be able to fly 90 seconds, once a day, and is planned to make 5 flights over 30 days. It has a maximum altitude of 1300 feet, and range of 2,000 feet per flight.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Well why dont they then fly it to 98,000 feet on earth and we will believe it can fly in equivalent of Marses atmosphere.