Syrian Kurds Situation

I keep hearing that we are abandoning the Kurds. These are my questions. Please try to answer these questions with your first post before you go off on whether Trump is right or wrong, or respond to another. The point of this thread is to get people thinking. It is not to say what side is right or wrong.

What did Obama promise the Kurds that Trump is going back on?
What would be required to fulfill that promise?
What will be the consequences of doing it?
Why do you think America should or should not do what is required?

ETA: If you read this, and you can't answer, feel free to say I agree/disagree with Trump but I can't answer those questions. Let me/us know if you think those questions don't matter.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

i'll answer just one of the questions.

Why do you think America should or should not do what is required?

it is almost a certainty that the Kurds lived in the region as far back Sumerian empire. it is also thought by many that for a time the Ancestors of the Kurds known as the Qartas conquered the Sumerians and for a time and ruled the area for a time. they were also known to the by the Akkadians. some kurds consider themselves to be descents of the Meads who conquered Nineveh during the Assyrian rule. there is also other mentioning and thoughts on them up to modern times
so it is plain to see that they have been inhabitants of the area a very long time.

then after WWI ( which kurds fought on both sides) in the treaty in the treaty of Treaty of Sèvres, they were to be given a homeland. this never came about because the Kurds them selves and everybody else involved couldn't agree on boundaries. this treaty didn't last and the one that replaced it the Treaty of Lausanne left them out completely. then inWWII they fought once more. (again they had people on both sides).

not going to go through all the other stuff that happen between now and the Most recent War starting in 2001. we all know what they have done in the War On Terror.

now seeing how long it is thought they have been in the region, and the help they contributed to the world on the all three of the world wide major conflicts, had their homeland stolen from the by greedy colonial empires that lasted well in the 20th century even though some claim that their countries did don't after the 1800s. and how much they have done to end the War on terror, which Isis would be a fairly strong terrorist group. Trump should have protected thenm and help them establish their own Homeland.

even if he didn't help them with a homeland, he should have stayed and if needed sent more troops to proterct them. you don't abandon people that bleed with you.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Here's a few questions. Do we own the land that they want to make theirs? If not, would we be helping them steal that territory from someone? Throughout history, people have lost their territories and homelands, do we try to turn back the clock for others? If so, shouldn't that mean all non-American of Tribal descents move back to their original countries? See how complicated this gets?

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

So Trump should start a middle east war to steal land from other countries and give it to the Kurds. Who should we go to war with, what land should we steal?

How many American lives are acceptable to lose to benefit the Kurds?

a reply to: joemoe

Do we own the land that they want to make theirs? If not, would we be helping them steal that territory from someone? Throughout history, people have lost their territories and homelands, do we try to turn back the clock for others? If so, shouldn't that mean all non-American of Tribal descents move back to their original countries? See how complicated this gets?Text

fact is the kurds never left, they have or their ancestors have been noted to have been in the area as far back as when written history started. so it is safe to say that they could have lived there long before written history maybe even before the migrant native americans migrated to amercias. for all we know some of the kurds could have come to the americas. after all the middle east is part of eurasia, or what was at the time.

fact is the world has already stolen land and given land back to a people those being the Israeli's. many say that israel doesn't deserve the right to exsist do you think that after all the world gave it to them?

besides didn't you see where i said even if he didn't help them start a homeland, he should have protected them. the other countries in the middle east also owe a debt to the kurds. at the rate Isis was growing and their stated goals they were going to take over the middle east. you don't abandon people that bleed with you.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

So we need to station Troops illegally in Syria to protect the Kurds .. for how long?
Are we going to go to war with Turkey over it? How many American lives are you willing to throw away in war for the Kurds?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

where is it said that troops were illgeally in syria, if they were why didn't assad and their allies run U.S. troops out. didn't Obama start all the U.S. troops being there, well it moght have been the no fly zone. and didn't the UN /the whole world say it was cool.

The American-led intervention in the Syrian Civil War refers to the United States-led support of Syrian opposition and the Federation of Northern Syria during the course of the Syrian Civil War and active military involvement led by the United States and its allies — the militaries of the United Kingdom, France, Jordan, Turkey, Canada, Australia and more — against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and al-Nusra Front since 2014. Since early 2017, the U.S. and other Coalition partners have also targeted the Syrian government and its allies via airstrikes and aircraft shoot-downs.
American-led intervention in the Syrian Civil War

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie

where is it said that troops were illgeally in syria, if they were why didn't assad and their allies run U.S. troops out. didn't Obama start all the U.S. troops being there, well it moght have been the no fly zone. and didn't the UN /the whole world say it was cool.

Yes, Obama started this mess, exactly. American troops are assisting the opposition to Assad, they are in Syria illegally. Please show me where America got permission from Assad to go into Syria to overthrow Assad.

We are in Syria illegally, without permission.

Syria’s Foreign Minister Walid al-Moualem on Saturday demanded an immediate withdrawal of all U.S. and Turkish troops from his country and warned that Syrian government forces had the right to take countermeasures if they refused.

www.reuters.com...

And you are claiming we should steal land from Syria .. while claiming Syria is supporting us doing it.

This is why you are supposed to answer all those questions I asked, it will make you think and realize the stuff you are thinking and saying makes no sense.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Bush promised the Kurds a homeland after the invasion of Iraq . I read a article the other day that said the Kurdish region is the only place on earth where George W could get elected again. Lol

When Obama’s junior varsity ISIS took over most of western and northern Iraq . Obama kicked them to the curb in 2014 . They remained cut off with very littler aid from the US. Until Trump came to office and gave them direct military aid to fight ISIS. Which they did with the fury .

Now Trump backed away I don’t think to the extent Obama did . But that remains to be seen . Read Kurdish history it’s fascinating they’ve been let down more times then madonnas underwear .

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

it is very doubtful that turkey would attacked and engaged in a war with the U.S. hell even syria who has Russia and Iran as allies haven't. so no need to worry.

to protect your allies, which without their help more U.S. Citizens would have died than that already did during the fight against isis. last i heard the Kurds had 60,000 troops and of that 11,000 had been killed. how many kurd lives is it worth to protect U.S. citizens. remember that before 911 no thought that the U.S. would be attacked again by a bunch of goat herders again. when isis got done in the middle east they would have targeted non muslim and western countries. they even said so remember they were holding a jihad.

a reply to: Fallingdown

The Kurds have been screwed for sure. But the situation we are in today is the situation we are in today, I am not going to go back to WWI and start a ME war over it. That is why I specifically listed the questions I listed, because only when you answer all those questions can you get to the current situation and what should be done.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Turkey already shelled US troops. Try again.

There is no Kurdistan, the Kurds can not be our allies, that land belongs to Syria, Syria is not our ally.

Is it your position you want Trump to declare a war in the ME to steal land from multiple countries and create a Kurdistan and then permanently station US troops there to defend it?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

where did i say syria is supporting us. don't put words in my mouth even if you veil it as a question. what i said is syria , russia, iran don't want a war with us. if so they would have attacked us when Obama started it, or most definitely when trump started bombing the hell out of their bases.

isis is not yet completely defeated, their still in syria and other parts of the middle. so therefore we're not illegally there. until every last jihadi is dead or in prison.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: OccamsRazor04
where did i say syria is supporting us.

This is where.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

where is it said that troops were illgeally in syria, if they were why didn't assad and their allies run U.S. troops out.

Syria did not run us out because they are in the middle of a war and the US military is far superior. They did not and do not want us there, we are there illegally.

You are all over the place and can't keep your story straight. Please go back and read my OP and answer those questions. There is a reason I asked what I asked. There is a reason you refused to answer them.

And if ISIS is the problem then we should be coordinating with Assad to remove them, right?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

when was the second, so far i have only heard of one and according to turkey they were returning fire that came from the area on them.

our rules of engagement state return fire only in self defense which we didn't fire. i would imagine that turkey retaliated and maybe even has the same kind of rule.

There is no Kurdistan, the Kurds can not be our allies, that land belongs to Syria, Syria is not our ally.

i beg to differ, here is what is regarded as Kurdistan. a wiki cuase it's fast

Kurdistan (/ˌkɜːrdɪˈstæn, ˈstɑːn/; Kurdish: کوردستان‎ [ˌkʊɾdɯˈstɑːn] (About this soundlisten); lit. "region of Kurds")[2] or Greater Kurdistan is a roughly defined geo-cultural historical region wherein the Kurdish people form a prominent majority population[3] and Kurdish culture, languages, and national identity have historically been based.[4] Kurdistan roughly encompasses the northwestern Zagros and the eastern Taurus mountain ranges.[5] The territory corresponds to Kurdish irredentist claims. Contemporary use of the term refers to the following areas: southeastern Turkey (Northern Kurdistan), northern Syria (Rojava or Western Kurdistan), northern Iraq (Southern Kurdistan), and northwestern Iran (Eastern Kurdistan).[6][7] Some Kurdish nationalist organizations seek to create an independent nation state consisting of some or all of these areas with a Kurdish majority, while others campaign for greater autonomy within the existing national boundaries.[8][9] Iraqi Kurdistan first gained autonomous status in a 1970 agreement with the Iraqi government, and its status was re-confirmed as an autonomous entity within the federal Iraqi republic in 2005.[10] There is a province by the name Kurdistan in Iran; it is not self-ruled. Kurds fighting in the Syrian Civil War were able to take control of large sections of northern Syria as government forces, loyal to President Bashar al-Assad, withdrew to fight elsewhere. Having established their own government, they called for autonomy in a federal Syria after the war.[11] Part of a series on Kurdish history and Kurdish culture Roj emblem.svg People [show] Population [show] History [show] Culture [show] Ancient history [show] Medieval history [show] Modern history [show] Languages [show] Religion [show] Kurdistan

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

This is where.

i asked why didn't they kick us out, not that they supported us. brush up on your reading comprehension skill tell where it say that and not accused me as a veil question.

any way they knew they couldn't run them out even with the help of their allies.

and no i'm not going to play your little game, do you think that

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

So who rules Kurdistan? What countries recognize it? When was it formed? What kind of government does it have?

There is no Kurdistan, stop using Wiki.

Please go back to my OP and answer all those questions, your refusal is suggestive to me that your position is untenable.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

You said if we are not there legally why didn't they kick us out. Meaning we are there legally and they were ok with us being there.

They didn't kick us out because their military can't compare with the US. Either we recognize Assad as the ruler, and we are there illegally since they demand we get out, or we do not and we overthrow him with our military in yet another ME war.

What we can't do is recognize him, and then tell him he has no say in his country and we will do whatever want.

Again, your refusal to answer the OP questions is telling.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

man you just don't have a clue do you, do a little research.

Relations of Kurdistan Region of Iraq with foreign states and organizations are conducted by the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG). Political stability and a rapidly developing economy have given the KRG the opportunity to pursue a foreign policy independent from the central government's. The KRG's primary body for directing its foreign affairs is the Department of Foreign Relations (DFR). The DFR's foremost objectives are to raise the global profile of the Kurdistan Region, improve the Region's international ties with various governments and international organizations, and present emerging business opportunities in the Kurdistan Region to regional and international actors.[1] The KRG's foreign policy vision has paved the way for the establishment of various diplomatic representations in Kurdistan. A total of 32 countries have a diplomatic presence in Erbil, with Canada, India and Pakistan recently announcing plans to establish diplomatic missions. Multinational bodies, including the EU, UN, ICRC, JIA, and the KOICA also have offices in Southern Kurdistan. The KRG's presence abroad has grown significantly since 2007. Currently the KRG has representative offices in 14 countries.[1]
Contents
Foreign relations of Kurdistan Region

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

You just sourced the Kurd's of Iraq in a discussion about Syria. Then you have the nerve to claim I have no clue.

Are you saying the Syrian Kurds should have their land given to Iraq? Are you advocating the US go to war to achieve that?