Bernie Sanders Home Run Rant Last Night in The Presenditial Debate!

No one cares, that's how bad the candidates are.

a reply to: chris_stibrany


Go ahead and think like that.

Lull yourself to sleep and then they come and get you and your left wondering how did that happen. I am of the opinion that you can proceed in life either on the offensive or defensive until you get what you want. In this case stay the course. Notice all of the rhetoric from the FBI on this Ukraine thing? Really?

So can you answer who's conjoined at the hip with SDNY? Both groups report to the DOJ headed by Barr. Follow the power and tell me where we are today with Epstein? The Dossier?

a reply to: Stupidsecrets

Most people work for a living. Most people even work full time jobs. Many with over time. They are depressed because it never feels worth it. Those that don't work is because they're in the damned if you do, damned if you don't welfare trap.

At the lower end of pay, you make the same as or, due to losing the health benefits of welfare, less than a person on welfare. Which makes getting off welfare near impossible, as well as giving no real incentive to try. Especially if you have any medical conditions.

This is the biggest problem with why everyone is depressed and lots of people who drop out of the work force never get back in.

Why work when you can get the same thing or better by not working and also gain free time.

Most poor workers, those who go to work, work their asses off. They spend most of their waking hours at their jobs to barely make ends meet.

Meanwhile, others get the exact same standard of living plus free time for not working.

There's the issue and why people are bitching we need better pay. The low end jobs pay less and offer less benefits than #ing welfare. The only reason to work them is if denied welfare for some reason, or if you're still healthy enough to work seventy to eighty hours a week and are hoping to crawl tooth and nail out of the welfare trap. Any medical issue or other catastrophy and you're likely screwed though and all that work is for nothing.

Even those who start to crawl out can be knocked back for years by one emergency. Not having one is rare, especially when success depends on years without one.

Jobs, even low end jobs need to be worth it. Welfare is supposed to be barely making it. It's something to get out of. Working, especially a full time job, should never come close to the same standard of living as being on welfare.

The right's solution to this dilemma, destroy welfare, hurt the people at the bottom and force them to work for scraps or die, because heaven forbid the rich give up a single cent to improve the standard of living at the bottom, that would be theft...

Incentivise people to work with threats of punishment, crack that whip. Actually reward people for working, use positive incentives, never.

Punish people and they'll do just enough to avoid punishment, reward them and they'll step all over themselves to earn more.

Most jobs pay just enough to avoid punishment and that's it. There's no incentive to do better. In fact many jobs reward those who work harder with more work and no raise in pay. Leading many to learn to never push themselves or it will just increase their work load. Most big business is run by psychopaths, or so it would seem.

Bernie and Warren are my favorites. Mark Zuckerberg is on record talking about the existential threat that Facebook faces if they win. The real "elite", the billionaires and 1% that run the world are also afraid of them. And that tells me more than any debate..

With Donald Trump it's just more of the same. More of selling out our country to the highest bidder, more corporate lobbyists making decisions for us the people, it's crap. Donald Trump has turned out to be everything the right wing said about Hillary, but worse.

With the Squad (AOC, TLIAB, OMAR) endorsing Bernie, he's a shoe-in for being the Dem nominee.

www.businessinsider.com...

None of the "front runners" stand a chance against Trump. They just won't appeal to anyone outside of their base.

Yang is the best contender for the DNC if they want to pull in moderate votes (which would represent 80% of our country). But for some reason he's been stifled. Tulsi would be a decent choice, but i don't think she is as reasoned as Yang.

I find myself conflicted. My political "beliefs" are not supported by what I know about humans and human nature. For example, a "living wage". The argument against living wage is that it would disincentivize people. But a different way to say this is that the only way to motivate people is with a threat of starvation and homelessness. I don't really feel comfortable with this in the modern world, as we should likely be moving to an alternate system that accounts for decreased labor opportunities through automation and robotics.

Anyway...i like Bernie. He is passionate and has had a consistency in his compassion. I just don't like the pseudoauthoritarian threat that his policies would indicate (theft at gunpoint).

Sanders doesn't have any solutions. Simply "taxing the rich" is not a viable solution.

There is a solution though, cut expenses AND raise revenue. The problem is the two-headed snake of American party politics.

One side wants to spend ridiculous amounts of money on their pet projects and the other does the EXACT same thing.

One side wants the other to play by the rules but doesn't play by them themselves.

The tyranny of a bifurcated political system will have to be dealt with before any significant changes can be made.

I am not advocating for the illegalization of political parties. The First Amendment guarantees our right to assemble and act together lawfully as we choose ... but there is no reason that the rich guys in the red hats and the rich guys in the blue hats should get away with offering a meaningless "choice."

a reply to: LSU2018

You get a star simply for your profile pic. Made me chuckle. I'd say its really cool but according to my niece I'm to much of a nerd to be using the word "cool" lol.

a reply to: Gryphon66

It would help if the people on both sides or no sides could discuss these issues without making it about left or right, communism vs capitalism issues.

We keep dividing ourselves, we allow them to divide us. We should be figuring out solutions together and demanding them or building and promoting our own new party to do so.

You can't discuss the wealth gap without it becoming an attack on the right and capitalism issue for example.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Gryphon66

It would help if the people on both sides or no sides could discuss these issues without making it about left or right, communism vs capitalism issues.

We keep dividing ourselves, we allow them to divide us. We should be figuring out solutions together and demanding them or building and promoting our own new party to do so.

You can't discuss the wealth gap without it becoming an attack on the right and capitalism issue for example.

I believe we can discuss these matters but we do have to commit to the basic guidelines of forensics. Verifiable facts are the only admissable evidence, no ad hominem, no strawman arguments would ELIMATE 99% of the divisive BS.

Heck, stating that something is only an opinion rather than fact would do away with 50% of it.

Bernie is a fraud and it is just sad that people can't think critically enough anymore to realize it. He used to say the same thing he says about millionaires that he now says about billionaires -- that is, until he became a millionaire despite never having a job outside of politics in his life.

Notice all of rhetoric about the "wealth gap" and yet no mention of any of the actual largest drivers of said wealth gap last night such as unfettered globalist mega businesses. China didn't come up once during the debates. A little innuendo provided by Yang on the knowledge economy and the forthcoming useless class that will result -- but still, not nearly enough.

These people are relics on the 20th century. For all their so-called "diversity" they are all merely the equivalent of the old man shaking his fist at a cloud. The don't understand the so-called wealth gap, and their only solution is more greed stacked upon greed in terms of massively corrupt and bloated bureaucracy that will do nothing but exacerbate our problems.

All I see from these obviously fixed and incredibly lame debates is the democrat strategy for 2020 is to send in the clowns to fight against the king of clowns.

a reply to: Puppylove

Reinstate Smith Mundt and see their legs (the media) cut out from under them.

What is happening now is a liberalization of American youth. Not that its wrong...but the fact that its taken a concerted propaganda effort to achieve it is absolutely worrisome.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Damn good to see you again Gryphon. One of my favorite people to discuss politics with....we need more people who can show basic rules of logic are the only weapon needed.

originally posted by: sooth
Bernie is a fraud and it is just sad that people can't think critically enough anymore to realize it. He used to say the same thing he says about millionaires that he now says about billionaires -- that is, until he became a millionaire despite never having a job outside of politics in his life.

Ad hominem argument.

Notice all of rhetoric about the "wealth gap" and yet no mention of any of the actual largest drivers of said wealth gap last night such as unfettered globalist mega businesses. China didn't come up once during the debates. A little innuendo provided by Yang on the knowledge economy and the forthcoming useless class that will result -- but still, not nearly enough.

Why don't you tell us about "unfettered globalist mega businesses" then? How is China driving the income gap in the US?

These people are relics on the 20th century. For all their so-called "diversity" they are all merely the equivalent of the old man shaking his fist at a cloud. The don't understand the so-called wealth gap, and their only solution is more greed stacked upon greed in terms of massively corrupt and bloated bureaucracy that will do nothing but exacerbate our problems.

All I see from these obviously fixed and incredibly lame debates i the democrat strategy for 2020 is to send in the clowns to fight against the king of clowns.

That last sentence is a good line.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Gryphon66

Damn good to see you again Gryphon. One of my favorite people to discuss politics with....we need more people who can show basic rules of logic are the only weapon needed.

Good to see you as well Texan.

Rules of logic, basic principles of evidence/forensics/debate.

Yeah, kinda like the scientfic method ... it may not be the best, but it's the best we've come up with so far.

Thanks for the welcome.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Every study of humans has demonstrated that punishment only results in people doing just enought to avoid punishment, while positive reward has resulted in people seeking to accomplish more to gain more reward. No study that I have heard of has ever actually supported negetive reinforcement getting better results than positive reinforcement.

Is why I'm a believer that all basic needs should be met, and work should only be to gain extras beyond the basics. When all work provides is the basics, then it becomes punishment avoidance.

People like and want extras. People need the basics.

If you want people to WANT to work, it needs to appeal to their wants, not their needs.

The argument against a living wage should give you pause, and give you conflict, because the argument against a living wage is not only wrong and not supported by any evidence, it's downright archaic and sociopathic.

To me every system requires a certain infrastructure that works to achieve certain goals.

If the system at hand is the American workforce or even the American population, then there are certain elements needed to make that system healthy and happy that are currently missing or inadequate.

Safety, shelter, health, communications, standards and achievable goals and the initiative to reach them.

The problem is, the government can provide the minimum necessary in the first five (and arguably does so in the Constitution), but individuals must provide the last two and without that, the system fails.

Our current efforts in providing the first five fail because we can't provide the last two. IMHO.

a reply to: Puppylove

The right's solution to this dilemma, destroy welfare, hurt the people at the bottom and force them to work for scraps or die, because heaven forbid the rich give up a single cent to improve the standard of living at the bottom, that would be theft...

Incentivise people to work with threats of punishment, crack that whip. Actually reward people for working, use positive incentives, never.

Punish people and they'll do just enough to avoid punishment, reward them and they'll step all over themselves to earn more.

Most jobs pay just enough to avoid punishment and that's it. There's no incentive to do better. In fact many jobs reward those who work harder with more work and no raise in pay. Leading many to learn to never push themselves or it will just increase their work load. Most big business is run by psychopaths, or so it would seem.

You hit the nail on the head. For the first time in the history of this country billionaires are paying less taxes than the middle and lower classes. The burden of paying for America shouldn't be shouldered by the lower class alone.

Manufacturing is dying, the economy is in the trash (despite what the President wants to tell us) and the job market is crap. Something has to change. The wealthiest Americans just got a $1.5 trillion tax cut..

To put that in perspective, if you made $1 a second, you'd have to go back and start at 30,000 B.C. to have a $1 trillion dollars today. The tax cut that Trump just gave the 1% could pay for healthcare and education for all of America.

a reply to: eXia7

You've obviously never met Millionaires living on South Beach in million dollar mansions with a Rolls Royce Phantom, Bentley in the drive way and a 50 foot Cigarette parked in their backyard dock. Or a Brand new Ferrari, Range Rover, Mini cooper, Dodge pickup and a wake boat in their backyard.

Your "Rich people are rich because they invest their money into other things that will make them money..." is just uninformed. Rich people spend thousands of dollars on designer clothes, shoes and electronics. And hundreds of thousands of dollars on cars and boats. I know this because I've been in their cars (btw the Rolls Royce Phantom is really nice inside.) and on their boats . I've seen them go out and spend money on crap. And even I'm like, "Dude why are you buying all of this. Seems like a waste of money to me." But because they are rich they can get whatever they want. And yes I knew a guy that got a new iphone every year they came out.

Now I'm not saying steal money from the rich. But does someone making 100's of millions per year or more really need a tax break? I say no tax breaks for the rich. Unless tax breaks are applied evenly to all.

a reply to: booyakasha

No one forgot. It's been mentioned already. By me. That does not make this a discussion not worth having. If we ignored any topic supported by a liar and a hypocrite we'd have no topics to discuss.