musings on bigfoot's elusiveness

a reply to: reject

Read your link to the incident, it was back in 2008. Did anything ever come of the investigation?

a reply to: Caver78

I know. 404.

Those links are from over 11years ago.

It was not publicized.

This one is live though: active link

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: Caver78

I know. 404.

Those links are from over 11years ago.

It ( LABORATORY TEST RESULTS) was not publicized.

This one is live though: active link

Besides food and shelter, I'm thinking they live inside mt. Kanlaon because there may be mineral deposits they need .

It's an active volcano🌋 so it may have acted up unsettling its denizens in its cave system.

There are a few witnesses there who insist they are humans except that they're extremely hairy... like a monkey; hence prompting laboratory blood tests.

What ever they are, it is not human, not what we saw in the mountains of colorado.. now as far as building, I would first say there is zero evidence, and I do mean zero, that these creatures made these structures.. Bare in mind, many told me through the years that we were full of it and we did not see anything... but, evidence is something we can't deny... if they made these structures there would be evidence.. you don't topple those size tree's and not leave evidence... and if they are structure's that are built by them, for them, there would also be evidence of that, hair, prints.. there simply has never been any found, at least that they let us know about...

Being hairy, or furry or whatever does not mean that the cold and snow are not going to effect you, it will... this is true for every specie on earth, all of them...

I have some trouble with this whole thing... why, well we did see one... but I keep coming back to diet and food and water and calories... We simply can't get around the amount of food necessary for any animal, mammal, whatever, of this size and weight needs to survive... all the people saying otherwise are not dealing in reality...

They eat, therefore they need the calories just like we do... physics and biology is just that, physics and biology... The bigger you are the more you MUST intake.. the more you move, the more you burn, the more you MUST intake..

No matter how much you would like to imagine that this is not the case and explain it away with pizza and people leaving them food etc... um, come on folks...

Now, having said that I am torn... because right along with the other people pulled over on the side of the road we saw it... and I know people who have seen one in the swamp here... but food and water are not an issue here, at least water and for the most part food.. it is more than plentiful all year around unless you are trying to talk population... the other thing i am torn about is the evidence of... now in the swamp it is a little easier, just not that many folks heading out there. But even here, the evidence left behind even in the swamp by a bipedal 8 foot whatever would be huge and there would be allot of it....

I don't think they don't use fire because they want to hide.. and I don't think they are hanging out in freezing environments either... just not enough food... either they hibernate or they have to move to better climate.. even polar bear's get cold and must regulate or die.. how do they regulate, they eat.. and they need allot... they are dying at alarming rates simply because they can't get enough food to regulate and sustain their bodies...

So, what does this leave us... well, on one hand you have to think in reality... there is no way they are living in numbers, none, zip.. the evidence they would leave would be overwhelming... the amount of food to have one survive is also an overwhelming amount...
So, we are left scratching our head and wondering if in fact there might not be a supernaturl explanation of some kind. I know, i can't believe i said it either... especially since we saw one lol.. but seriously.. if you start being honest and thinking about this scientifically and with some basic understanding about biology and physics etc.. this really is what we are left with... lol... as for animal pictures, yea, it is hard to get pics when you come face to face with critters.. but here the thing.. once i know the deer, or the fox, both behind my property, are there and I miss them I can bait them or stake them out and get a picture if I want to.. these creatures would be no different

a reply to: dlbott

Foxes and rabbits along with polar bears thrive just fine in the cold though.

They could be using cave systems that have geothermal heating.

originally posted by: reject
They could be using cave systems that have geothermal heating.

I sort of subscribe to that train of thought, it makes logical sense to me too.

Dr Melba Ketchum did the DNA testing on a lot of samples at top independent DNA labs over the last decade. She says the mother was human, the father unknown. No ape DNA. They occurred in the last 1500 years. So the question is who was the father and what happened 1500 years ago? There are a lot of uninhabitable areas where humans don't live that are Bigfoot friendly. Humans cluster in cities, not so many people live out in the countryside.

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Wouldn't you holler back hello?

Although, that seeming flailing of its arms over its head could be him waving hello back.

I guess it's possible.

Nope! I would not. Sound caries far in woods, or at altitudes in places like that.

There is no need to bother to say hi since there far away. And well, if its bigfoot, probably daydreaming to get caught in the open like that.

Also checked, ya its not far from tricouni peak. Always get those places confused, there one here in WA, also I see there a whistler not far, there like a thousand of those here in WA also, peaks, ranges, mountains, parks, bridges, all named whistler.

Some of these names, they got to start naming them different names. Its some of the street names, you go to 10 different counties in ten different states, your bound to find a #load of alder roads, carson avenues, and a # ton others out there to make you believe they just go off a list when naming things or streets.

But anyways. Like I said, you could follow those ranges all the way from WA up into Canada all the way up into Alaska, and if your feeling crazy, you can even boat or pass into syberia, and then out into Russia from there in some cases, and if there is anybody traversing even a fraction of all that on foot, not even that even passing the peaks in WA or Canada by hiking, there not human for sure.

And even if they are, chances are there not going to run into any other humans. Its a lot of area, theres probably a bigger percentage of goats or wolfs up there then humans, and the chances that you will find a goat if you spend a whole week or month on one of those peeks are slim, very slim indeed.

I mean some of those places are right off the major highways, but it looks like you could fit 3 Seattle's just in that area between triconi peak and the black tusks.

So no, I dont think anybody is bothered even if spotted, Bigfoot or no, pretty sure they know aint nobody going to be going following them in either case.

a reply to: dlbott

Well spoken!


These are things that concern me as well. If anyone watched Les Strouds episode about survival in the Boreal Forests of Canada it was fairly grim. But then I bounce back to knowing about various First Nations who did very well.

Some of what I'm thinking we're seeing is different individuals who are using large territories. One of my rants previously in this thread was that reporting agencies DON'T use the web tool "Distance Locator" when sightings of Bigfoot happen.

What I found right off the bat was that humans were calculating the distance by roads instead of directly cross country.
Or "as the crow flies" so we are "assuming" a bunch of different individuals instead of the same ones roaming over a much larger area. Taken in this context then yes, there would be more than enough food available.

Back to caves, my problem with this is that most are damp, dank. Spend a couple of hours in it and you are chilled to the bone. Plus that kind of constant dampness breeds skin infection over time. Livable caves are much fewer and far between. Then there is the fact despite many multiple groups of people who routinely visit cave systems we have really yet to hear of bigfoot evidence or sightings IN caves. At one time I spent a lot of time visiting Spelunker forums looking for stories, but came up empty.

Only reports of some high strangeness and other beings, but not bigfoot.

a reply to: Caver78

Our ancestors used caves intensively and extensively leaving behind all sorts of relics and artifacts in them.

very recent Bigfoot sighting at mammoth CAVE national park

Anyway I've come across reports of them at mouth of caves.

a reply to: reject

lets ask a direct question :

have any archeological finds been made in caves that are evidence of " big foot "

i can cite thousands of finds - that give evidence of known hominids , extanct and extinct flora and fauna , geologyical edivence of past climate , glaciation , etc etc - all documented from cave finds

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

to be blunt - it makes zero logical sense to me

hear is why :

1 - the existance , frequency and accesibility of these " geothermally heated cave systems " . i am british - and not an expert on US cave morphology - but the underpining science and geology - is identical

and we have 1 - yup one geothermal cave that i am aware of hear in UK

that is a pipe below the " devonshire caverns " system - matlock bath UK the DC system is a lead mine - that insersects natural passsages - and yup - matlock bath is the town famed for its spa baths

i CBA researching the US data - but if it interests you - i am certain that the NSS and other relevant american bodies - will have data on caves that have geothermal features

which will be a start

2 - as ATS member " caver78 " has pointed out there are " problems " with cave dwelling - and no evidence of big foot - in any known cave

and further to thier post - there is a significant number of cave systems that are " vertical " - and can only be accessed via SRT or ladders [ unless you now want to add some epic climbing skills to bigfoots abilities list ]

but - before you do - no known [ none flyer - ie bats // birds ] species has been found to use " vertyical systems " as thier abode .

2a - yup - we are still discovering new cave systems - all over the world - and despite the U small size and large caver populatio - 2 of the most significan systems have been discovered in the last 25 years

BUT - pleading " undiscovered caves " = bigfoot abodes - is a " caves of the gaps " argument - most significant new finds in recent decades have required digging // major excavations - or have been broken into by drilling or civil engineering projects

undiscovered " open holes " - are becoming rarer and rerer

so there you have it geology and the realities of cave morphology - and the extants of cave exploration - and the utter absence of evidence that its efforts have discovered [ to date ] - make your ideas on big foot hiding in geothermally heated caves - quite preposterous

lastly - all significant cave systems - are in limestone - which is why the TAG [ tenesse alabama georgia ] aarea is one of the biggest cave areas in the US [ florida ha loads of caves - but almost all are dive only ] - with the exception of lava tubes - that form by a unique process - voiding of fluid lave - not water action

there are no cave formations of any significance in other geological structures - sandstones can form very small caves by faulting and movement - but sandstones fo not disolve - unlike limestons - under water actio - and just errosion - is not a good agent for cave formation

end

a reply to: reject

yup - and ???????????

the alledged samples were sent for " testing " - in 2008

what heppened

we need the test result

the fact that it hasnt been published leads me to a conclusion .................

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: turbonium1

peer reviews - sasquatch genome project

like the Bigfoot itself, the study is also highly controversial.

It basically says it's DNA shows affinity to human AND chimpanzee along with other primates.

So this DNA sequence doesn't discount a species of large bili/Bondo chimpanzee that may grow a lot bigger in the Pacific Northwest geographic location.

PLUS, if it has indeed hybridized with homo sapiens presently or in the past, it may have become even bigger like what has been observed of the liger which is bigger than its lion and tiger parents.

I think this just about wraps it up for this thread

Mods, if you would, kindly append a copy of THIS post to my OP.

Bigfoot forensic dental records



The recently discovered giant chimpanzee, the bili/Bondo ape WAS a cryptid.

It may even be directly related to bigfoot.

a reply to: reject

what utter bollox

a proper smackdown of this idiocy - shall have to wait - too busy

but for now :

uber walt

with ZERO scientific publication - yes its published a book - with lots of big words - but no peer review and no epeatability of any of his claims

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

to be blunt - it makes zero logical sense to me

No need for the full lengthy quote, and I will say you do have some amazing Google skills, yes indeed!

But let me do a small backup clarification here.

When I said: " I sort of subscribe to that train of thought, it makes logical sense to me too. " I have to admit that I was thinking more Cave systems than the geothermal aspect, and thats my fault for being sleepy/tired when I posted that. The temperature in caves tends to stay the same year-round, because they're underground and not affected by surface weather patterns (for the most part). Many cave's rarely get below 45 degrees and some like in Texas can run near 70 degrees.

And then you have the Mexican Cave where they found those beautiful and enormous Crystal formations. Cueva de los Cristales is a cave connected to the Naica Mine at a depth of 300 metres (980 ft), in Naica, Chihuahua, Mexico has air temperatures reaching up to 58 °C (136 °F)

There are a number of Worldwide anecdotal witness reports, bit's of history and fantastic tales that state that man and animals of all kinds used Caves. So I'm not against the idea. I've even had my own unknown creature experience in a long and deep Mine that helps me sit on the theory of possible cave dwelling (I'm a 3rd generation hardrock miner).

Just for fun and giggles.. Lets see if my Google skills can emulate yours.. lol

Here in the US we have Mammoth Cave that stretches for about 651.8 kilometers.

Including connected dry caves makes Sistema Sac Actun with 347.7 kilometers (216.1 mi) the longest cave in Mexico and the second longest worldwide.

Back to the US, Number 3 on the list is the 180-mile long Jewel Cave located in Custer in South Dakota, US.

There are many more worth mentioning, all over 100 miles long. They are located all over the world and include Sistema Ox Bel Ha in Tulum, Quintana Roo, Mexico at 159.75 miles long, Optymistychna Cave in Korolivka, Ukraine (146.64 miles), Wind Cave in Hot Springs, South Dakota, US (142.72 miles), Lechuguilla Cave in Carlsbad, New Mexico, US (138.31 miles), Clearwater Cave in Miri, Sarawak, Malaysia (133.78 miles), Fisher Ridge Cave System in Brownsville, Kentucky, US (124.58 miles), and Hölloch in Muotathal, Switzerland (124.52 miles).


There are 8 principle types of caves and they each have distinct formation processes. The first type is the solutional cave, which is formed by naturally acidic groundwater slowly eating away at rock, these cracks gradually expand over time. The second type of cave is the primary cave which is created by lava flows. Sea caves are located on coastlines all over the world and have been formed by waves cutting into the sea cliffs. The next common cave type is the erosional cave which, as the name suggests, are formed by erosion of either wind or water. Glacier caves have formed by melting and slow moving ice. Fracture caves are formed when layers of soluble rock dissolve between layers of less soluble rock. Talus caves are less akin to traditional caves, and are a kind of caves within unstable rock piles that are typically found at the bottom of cliffs. Finally, anchialine caves are found on coastlines and contain a mix of salt and freshwater.


Again (redux) do I think that cave systems were or could be used by animal and man, "I sort of subscribe to that train of thought, it makes logical sense to me too."

Johnny

a reply to: reject

Here's the rub.
Bigfoot at Mammoth Cave was seen out in a primitive camping area. NOT in the cave itself.

I don't disagree about some limited cave usage. Certainly Neanderthals, Homo sapiens etcetera have used caves my issue is we aren't finding many reports of Spelunkers or recreationists finding caves or even large overhangs with definite bigfoot sign indicating usage.

I live in a state with hundreds of abandoned mines, tons of them at this point unmarked anymore. The state to the south of me as well is riddled with old mines, yet the percentage of reports of bigfoot even in close proximity to caves are negligible if taken as a percentage of total reported sightings.

If anything it's a red flag, not a assumption we should just jump too despite everyone else's past history of using them.
I find the low occurrence of sightings actually even at the mouth's of caves curious. Speaking for myself, even if you had never broached the idea I would bust my own chops over the lack of anecdotal reports as me being a "lazy thinker".
Caves regular cave usage just isn't supported with such evidence as we currently have.

Sure I still think that occasionally they are used by bigfoot, just not in anything more meaningful than a drive-by campsite.

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

Been to Wind Cave, Carlsbad, an Laurel Caverns.
50 degrees in the damp gets really old after a couple of hours.

The big crystal cave in South America IIRC also suffers from toxic air as well as the insane heat. Here on the east coast our old mines have methane and radon as well as bad ventilation.

Meadowcroft being more of a large overhang than an actual cave is fairly famous for it's ancient usage tho.
(sorry using wiki, I just despise anything associated with the Heinz name)
en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

You're right.

Geothermal was only brought up because someone insisted on the cold being detrimental to Bigfoot existence.

I countered polar bears, foxes, and even rabbits thrived just fine in extreme cold.

I don't know if they still do so but wines are aged and stored in caves because of their stable temperature.

Up until 200 years ago, the gorilla was a cryptid.

The giant panda was a cryptid.

The coelacanth was a cryptid.

And in my other posts on this thread, other animals thought to be extinct were found to still be existing.

I don't know if some of the fossils already found are actually variations of Bigfoot because size varies greatly.

I don't know if Bigfoot is a giant chimpanzee.

I don't know if Bigfoot is a human ape hybrid.

However, some incredibly intelligent people of science swear they've seen it or suspect it exists.

I don't think even psychopaths will injure themselves and claim to have been attacked by these things.

People supposed to look out for the public claim they've seen these things carry people away.

It is why, on the fence, I lean towards Bigfoot existing.

Missing people's clothes are found set aside rather neatly.

Some people allegedly were folded backwards.

Some very big trees uprooted and shoved back into the earth top first.

What would do that?