We have not abandoned the Kurds

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: sybdragon

So your argument is that people won’t remember the US pulling out of some places but will remember that the US helped other places?

That makes sense.

I’m not talking about just the Kurds. US commitment to allies was questioned by locals in Afghanistan and Iraq both. If you're going to talk about people remembering the US helping in some situations, you’re going to have to accept that people will remember when the US didn’t help. Regardless of where we send troops, people aren’t ignorant. Our money buys loyalty though, and that helps memories.

My point it the Kurds do not remember when the USA screwed them just 20 or so years ago. During the Kuwait/Iraq spat way back in the day. I blame my Mom's death on her being stupid and going to Kuwait while all those oil rigs were burning. I begged her not to go because her lungs were not that good and I knew that the black oil smoke would damage them and they did. She died not being able to breath. I remember that time very well and was very angry about it all. I still rant about it. LOL

Of course I think people remember stuff, especially in their own lifetimes. So I do not understand how the Kurds believed the USA this time. That does not make sense to me. And it makes perfect sense to me that the USA would walk away from them. We have before so this is just history repeating itself to me.

I also think that others that watch geopolitics will also remember all this stuff. But I also think most people don't bother with geopolitics. They are too concerned with what's going on in their lives to worry about what happens in other places. I find it amazing that people think China is the USA's friend and Russia is not. Russia has been a historical ally to the USA and the USA has treated them like crap. Russia remembers. Putin talks about how the American people do not remember their own history. So why do I expect others to remember stuff that isn't their own history. Crap, I hear tell, what country? France maybe? Sweden? Someplace in the EU was going to stop teaching their history and the people got upset and they have decided to teach this history. But who in their right mind would even think or want to erase their own history?

The world is very confusing to me right now. I can not believe how stupid it all is. And I'm NOT the smartest cookie in the box ya know. Just a peon who's hobby for what? 40 years or so has been USA and world politics. History must be in that mix or understanding some stuff is impossible. IMO.

a reply to: Gorgonite

What is the goal of US forces being there? What country are they in? Who gave them permission? What does mission success look like?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Gorgonite

What is the goal of US forces being there? What country are they in? Who gave them permission? What does mission success look like?

Those are all legitimate questions, which have been asked several times in this thread by you, me as well as others.

I have yet to see a direct, coherant response, so I have to assume there isn't one.

The impression I get, is that the biggest thing wrong with this policy decision, is that it was made by President Trump.

Do you think that is a reasonable conclusion?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Gorgonite

What is the goal of US forces being there? What country are they in? Who gave them permission? What does mission success look like?

The original goal was to replace Assad as leader of Syria and put someone else in there.

They are in Syria and have always been in Syria and they didn't ask permission. They just decided Assad had to go.

If we are going with the original mission, which was under Obama, that mission success was a failure. Assad is still in power. If we are talking about Trump's goal, it was to defeat ISIS and come home. As Trump has stated, according to the USA, ISIS is all captured in camps/prisons waiting to be taken back to their original countries for criminal trials. The EU says they don't have the laws that allow them to put these people on trial so they will NOT take them back.

As far as the USA is concerned, these ISIS prisoners are not the USA's responsibility. They don't belong to us and must go back to the countries they belong to. The fact those countries refuse to take them back is their problem. The fact that these people are also the enemies of the Kurds is nothing to me. If the Kurds want to kill them all, so be it. If they escape, so be it. The USA's job was to catch them once and they did that.

Our mission there is complete and finished. We have no business being in a country that we were not asked to go into and Obama invaded illegally to remove the legal leader of. Obama was the criminal here whether or not his followers want to admit it or not. Noble Peace prize winner my butt. LMFAO

Guess everyone forgot the USA went in to Syria to replace Assad. If you want to go with the original mission, the USA lost that war.

a reply to: 727Sky

The kurds should have taken the offer by Assad's gov and Russia, Turkey not ISIS wouldn't allow to enter when they see Russian forces protecting the kurds.

a reply to: Mach2

Yep, people are just butthurt that Trump made the decision. It doesn't matter what the decision is, they would have a hissy fit over it anyway. You can not please some people so you might as well please yourself. Old song, Garden Party, says it all. LOL

a reply to: Mach2

It's reasonable for you to conclude as such, not so much for them to.

a reply to: sybdragon

If that was indeed Obama's intention then he really screwed it up big time and it is even more imperative for Trump to get us out.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

So you actually think that Turkey would have attacked US-Forces whether or not the got green light for a full scale assault ?
Is that the point you want to make by referring to the two different articles ?

Peace

originally posted by: ChefFox
a reply to: 727Sky

The kurds should have taken the offer by Assad's gov and Russia, Turkey not ISIS wouldn't allow to enter when they see Russian forces protecting the kurds.

Russia was onboard with Turkey having a buffer area way back in 2018. And I am sure they convinced Assad way back then too. This is NOT as USA thingie. This is something Turkey came up with and demanded after the USA tried to take out Assad. Now Russia is sending guys in to guard those camps/prisons if they have to because Russia doesn't want them people out. Russia knows these people are going to go to the EU and Russia to create havoc. Russia doesn't want that to happen. Will Russia step in and defend the Kurds against Turkey? No frigging way. Doesn't matter what they say, Russia is on Assad's side and Assad is calling these Kurds traitors. Why would Russia defend people their allies consider traitors? That don't make no sense to me. If anything, the EU needs to be kissing some Russian butt if they go guard these camps IMO. But that's not the way the world works. "sighing"

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: sybdragon

If that was indeed Obama's intention then he really screwed it up big time and it is even more imperative for Trump to get us out.

I speak the truth about that because as usual.... I was totally against it and was ranting and raving and screaming from the rooftops but no one was listening. All I heard was it was the plan. Some plan where the USA was taking out all those countries and Syria was next on the list. After Syria it was to be Iran. Trump stopped this plan and I'm very happy about it.

I don't remember what the plan is called but other conspiracy nuts will. Something about 7 countries and all. Commonly known conspiracy but no one talks much about it anymore I don't guess.

originally posted by: Gorgonite

originally posted by: 727Sky
The main thing is during the Pentagon briefing, they tried to make it quite clear, we have not abandoned the KURDS... YEAH ! Which made me feel better even if they are only words at this stage..

I'm sure that makes the dead women and children feel SO MUCH better.

Look! They are getting back up! Everything is fine now! The US says they haven't abandoned the Kurds.

Give me a freaking break.

GRAPHIC CONTENT OF DEAD KURDS

GRAPHIC CONTENT OF DEAD KURDS

Wow! You're freaking out man. You love posting graphic # too I see. Where is all the drama coming from? No, you don't come off as politically motivated at all!

We're you all freaking out and dramatic 4 years ago cause this #s been going on way longer than that. It's one thing to be real, quite another to be an obvious troll, piss off!

a reply to: sybdragon

Russia was onboard with Turkey having a buffer area way back in 2018.

Yes that plan with Turkey came into effect after the Kurds refused the Syrian/Russian govs offer. There are tweets of this with officials from 2018.

If anything, the EU needs to be kissing some Russian butt if they go guard these camps IMO.

That is unlikely when what the EU has being doing to Russia with NATO has being agaisnt Russia. Russia might allow some chaos to punish EU though just a thought. When the EU cant control next manufactured crisis they might be likely asking for Russia's help. Just might.

a reply to: ChefFox

The EU is already getting prepared and there are articles about the "next" big refugee crisis coming their way. LOL What they are NOT saying is that the refugees are actually their own ISIS terrorists coming home. But they are priming the people for it in the news. Sucks to be in Europe in the next year or more when these people come back unsupervised and free to do what they will. But I guess that is the motto. Do as thou wilt. LOL

originally posted by: Seed76
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

So you actually think that Turkey would have attacked US-Forces whether or not the got green light for a full scale assault ?
Is that the point you want to make by referring to the two different articles ?

Peace

I think they attacked US forces, so I use that as evidence they would ... because they did. You think they would never dare do it despite the fact they did it.

originally posted by: sybdragon
a reply to: ChefFox

The EU is already getting prepared and there are articles about the "next" big refugee crisis coming their way. LOL What they are NOT saying is that the refugees are actually their own ISIS terrorists coming home. But they are priming the people for it in the news. Sucks to be in Europe in the next year or more when these people come back unsupervised and free to do what they will. But I guess that is the motto. Do as thou wilt. LOL

Haha

The EU brought this on themselves for no explicable reason. If anyone should have learned from history of opressive colonialism, it should have been the Europeans.

Who thought it was a good idea to mix diametrically opposed philosophies? WTH did they think would happen? Now their chickens are coming home to roost (seems an apt metaphor), and I truly have zero sympathy for amy of them, except the Brits. They want off the train, but their goverment is holding them against their will.

Lesson here.....don't allow your government to disarm you.

The only reason a government would have for disarming a peaceful public, is if they are planning on doing something you would shoot them for.

a reply to: Mach2

Yep, the EU is screwed and they know it. They did not take Trump up on his offer to take those people back because the USA was not going to support them for their lifetimes and their kids and on down the generations. The EU must have thought he was lying or something. Trump has also stated that the EU should have taken those people back when the USA offered them to them. I mean, did they think, after trying to take down Assad that he would keep these people and support them or that the Kurds could? The Syrians don't have the money to do that. Neither does Turkey. And Russia's not going to do it either.

Turkey is going to let them people walk right on through Turkey as long as they keep moving on out of Turkey.

I've seen lots of videos where the European parents and relatives have tried to get their sons and daughters back into the country and have even gone so far as to try to pay smugglers to get them out of the camps/prisons and back home with them. IMO, and this is what I would do anyway, I would run to the first phone I could find in a "safe" place with public transportation and a cash receiving place like Western Union and I would call and ask for money to get home. These parents/relatives have spent tons of money trying to sneak their kids out of those camps so sending them bus fare home is peanuts isn't it?

I don't really feel pity for people that cut their own throats myself. I feel pity for the innocent in all this stuff but there's nothing I can do to help them. If they don't stand up to their own government and people that are going to try to move everything they can to get their kids back..... Well what do you say? Most parents love their kids....

This is just a frigging mess is what it is really. A big ole mess that should have never been. Now it's here.... Wellllll…. The USA is 7000 miles away over the water. And our southern border is getting fixed as we speak. Our northern border is another thing but I know nothing about it. And Canada is so generous to refugees so.....

Who knows what's going to happen. I do think that a lot of those people are going to get out and go to the EU though. They have families there that will hide them. Or most of them will anyway.

If the EU is expecting Turkey to stop them, they are deluding themselves. Turkey didn't get the money they demanded and you know the game, you don't pay, they don't play. LOL Turkey's done. Turkey agreed to watch those camps but if no one funds them, Turkey will not either. So who is going to fund these camps? The UN is broke. Funny how all this is happening at the same time isn't it. Trump told everyone we were leaving. Turkey told everyone they were going into Syria for their buffer zone. Russia, Syria, Iran stepped back and the UN ran outta money just this month unless someone coughs up some cash. Seems like the perfect storm to me. Does it to you too?

a reply to: sybdragon

LOL What they are NOT saying is that the refugees

What also the EU and Media outlets aren't saying to public about the so called refugees is that many of them are actually Black African from Savannah Africa.

Many of them aren't fleeing any war zones nor crisis. Nor can they contribute to the EU economical. Many of these Africans would just camp out wide in the open with tents so if you are in Europe they are noticeable when they try to brag and force you or tourists into buying their stuff.

a reply to: ChefFox

I know. That is because Gaddafi was taken out. He warned Europe that would happen if he went down but they didn't heed him at all. I don't know why the EU is accepting the Africans. I would send them all back like I think the USA should send back all those people on the southern border. But then, I'm bias against illegals having lived in Dallas, Tx for 20 years. Got tired of the illegals around 25 years ago and moved out. Not worth it to me.

The Africans are invading the EU and they are stating this. Sad to see but the Europe is going to fall in my opinion. I would not be surprised to see it look like Iraq or S. Africa in a few years. Sad to say.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: 727Sky

Regardless of what the talking head says the US have abandoned the Kurds and conditions on the ground are a result of that , Turkey wanted to do it so Trump let them in so they could , the blowhard in chief made a stupid move and now the administration is trying to put a spin on his decision and threaten sanctions against Turkey to show they are doing something , Turkey care not for your threat of sanctions and will continue with their ethnic cleansing regardless.

It was a shameful decision made by a shameless President.

The "Kurds" that have been attacked are also labeled a terrorist organization by the US and the UN, not just Turkey... Obama decided to arm them.

Imagine this scenario: A NATO ally takes care of a problem their way, which results in sanctioning said NATO ally, who ostensibly has been drifting closer and closer towards Russia's sphere of influence, by joining SWIFT and the 100b trade deal, which we couldn't sanction them for.