In the last 19 years workers wages have been cut dramatically by inflation

Over the last 19 years inflation has been much worse than people realize. The result at this point is the purchasing power of the workers take home pay is just NOT enough to make the economy go. Wages have not only been price-fixed but wages have actually been cut dramatically when taking into account inflation.

Everyone's wages have been cut so much the economy is practically dead or just skipping along the bottom. If the economy is doing so well here is why I think we do not have any inflation. We do not have any inflation because people are just not making enough money.

Now since I am not the most popular person posting on ATS because of my strong leftist positions, I imagine there are a lot people who automatically going to think I am full of BS without any consideration of my argument. So here is my evidence supporting my argument why over the last 19 years wages have been dramatically cut.

Consider the following CPI inflation calculator:

CPI Inflation Calculator

If you put in $100 for the amount, select 2000 as the start year, select 2019 as the ending year, the calculator comes up with converted amount of $149.00. What this means if to buy a basket of goods (bread, eggs, gasoline), in 2000 if you spend $100 in 2019 you would have to spend $149 to get the same amount of goods.

During that time most people probably got a 1%-2% raise very year, maybe. Of course as people grow older they become more valuable with their skills in the job market so their wages increase. But then that means we are not comparing apples to apples. I did a calculation of what a person making $100,000 per year would be making in 2019 with a consistent 2% raise every year. I come up with $138,000. So this calculates out to around an 8% pay cut over the last 19 years in terms of purchasing power.

I was thinking about the way the calculator works. I think what is more interesting in understanding the problem is not looking at $100 is now equivalent to $149 in 2019. Going in this direction with the numbers makes no sense to me. I think the way to think about this is by going the other way. Plug $67 in the calculator run it and it shows $100 as the converted amount.

In other words, if you start with $100 in 2000, it's now worth $67 in 2019 in terms of what you can buy. That's a freaking HUGE drop in purchasing power!!!

a reply to: dfnj2015

Some goods have certainly increased... namely medical, student loans, and housing.

However, the vast majority of goods are not that much more expensive. In fact, you are actually getting MORE for your money.

Think about technology. TVs, Cellphones, Computers, etc are all exponentially better. Think about how much nicer cars are nowadays, even budget cars. Safety features, technology, etc.

You can't just look at inflation without considering the improvement of those goods.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Important topic!

While we don't always agree on political topics, this we 100% agree on. Thank you for bringing this up!

The Fed and talking heads are lying saying "inflation isn't bad and that's a green light for Fed to cut rates further".

Core CPI doesn't even include tons of items ordinary people spend money on regularly. The numbers have been distorted for decades.

For more accurate date look at the Chapwood Inflation Index or John Williams' "Shadow Stats"....

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: dfnj2015

Some goods have certainly increased... namely medical, student loans, and housing.

However, the vast majority of goods are not that much more expensive. In fact, you are actually getting MORE for your money.

Can we just agree the CPI was created precisely to address your kind of subjective opinion with no bases in fact.

I don't understand why you would even say such of thing. It's like saying just after homes are ruined by a hurricane the people are actually doing quite well because it's now sunny outside.

From a online econ book explaining how changes in product quality / substitution bias distort CPI....

By 1996, there were more than 40 million cellular phone subscribers in the United States—but cell phones were not yet part of the CPI basket of goods. The parade of inventions has continued, with the CPI inevitably lagging a few years behind. The arrival of new goods creates problems with respect to the accuracy of measuring inflation....

The reason people buy new goods, presumably, is that the new goods offer better value for money than existing goods. Thus, if the price index leaves out new goods, it overlooks one of the ways in which the cost of living is improving. In addition, the price of a new good is often higher when it is first introduced and then declines over time. If the new good is not included in the CPI for some years, until its price is already lower, the CPI may miss counting this price decline altogether. Taking these arguments together, the improved quality/new goods bias means that the rise in the price of a fixed basket of goods over time tends to overstate the rise in a consumer’s true cost of living, because it does not take into account how improvements in the quality of existing goods or the invention of new goods improves the standard of living.

Again, this is not to say that there isn't inflation and some costs are dramatically higher. Again, I don't think anyone would argue that medical costs/insurance and student loans have far exceeded costs in the past. However, the majority of goods and things that people buy are not much more expensive, in fact, I'd argue they are cheaper as you are getting higher quality goods.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Exactly why we need Trump to keep those wage increases going to offset some of the losses that have piled up.

a reply to: FamCore

Absolutely....

One of the recent arguments I've been hearing from opponents is that everyone has a more comfortable living situation, so everything is good. And to an extent, that is true. Most people have cell phones (though this is almost a societal expectation and for work), everyone has a TV, and air conditioning.

While those points may be true, home ownership is going down (edit not a true broad statement. It's going down for the past 10 years but is comparable to 60's-90's... Though it's taking 2 earners to achieve now.), and most families have two wage earners and still struggle to make ends meet as opposed to a single earning household, often blue collar being able to buy a house in the past.

I imagine it will have vast impacts on the economy as well. The houses will be bought one way or another, maybe at a reduced rate, but it will be wealthier people renting it out furthering the wealth gap.

There will come a point of reckoning once jobs become more automated, and people aren't as vibrant of participants in the market.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Numbers can be missleading.
Not really wrong but needing perspective.

I bought my first computer in 1996 at radio shack..
It was over $1000...
Wal-Mart has computers under $200..

When I bought my first car, 100k miles meant it was worn out but today you can easily get over 200k.

Obviously some things are harder to buy but at the same time milk is under $2 a gallon.

Those numbers also can be skewed by the real estate costs in some cities.
My home is $200k here and $1million in Miami.


I guess if you want to see purchasing power you would need to inspect some markets.
Restaurans are packed and thats a luxury.
Homes are selling fast greatly helped by low interest rates.

Point of view I guess.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: dfnj2015

Some goods have certainly increased... namely medical, student loans, and housing.

However, the vast majority of goods are not that much more expensive. In fact, you are actually getting MORE for your money.

Can we just agree the CPI was created precisely to address your kind of subjective opinion with no bases in fact.

I don't understand why you would even say such of thing. It's like saying just after homes are ruined by a hurricane the people are actually doing quite well because it's now sunny outside.

I gave you the reason it isn't completely accurate. CPI often measures a fixed basket of goods and does a poor job of accounting for substitution bias. This is particularly evident with new products and technology.

Again, no one is arguing that a dollar today is worth less than a dollar yesterday. However, we can also overstate the effect of inflation as well.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: dfnj2015

Numbers can be missleading.
Not really wrong but needing perspective.

I bought my first computer in 1996 at radio shack..
It was over $1000...
Wal-Mart has computers under $200..

When I bought my first car, 100k miles meant it was worn out but today you can easily get over 200k.

Obviously some things are harder to buy but at the same time milk is under $2 a gallon.

Those numbers also can be skewed by the real estate costs in some cities.
My home is $200k here and $1million in Miami.


I guess if you want to see purchasing power you would need to inspect some markets.
Restaurans are packed and thats a luxury.
Homes are selling fast greatly helped by low interest rates.

Point of view I guess.

Stop being logical... you are messing up his doomsday thread.

Of course it has, and it's not only in the USA but in Europe as well.
But hey, people think middle class is thriving if Dow Jones is in green.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Over the last 19 years inflation has been much worse than people realize. The result at this point is the purchasing power of the workers take home pay is just NOT enough to make the economy go. Wages have not only been price-fixed but wages have actually been cut dramatically when taking into account inflation.

Everyone's wages have been cut so much the economy is practically dead or just skipping along the bottom. If the economy is doing so well here is why I think we do not have any inflation. We do not have any inflation because people are just not making enough money.

Now since I am not the most popular person posting on ATS because of my strong leftist positions, I imagine there are a lot people who automatically going to think I am full of BS without any consideration of my argument. So here is my evidence supporting my argument why over the last 19 years wages have been dramatically cut.

Consider the following CPI inflation calculator:

CPI Inflation Calculator

If you put in $100 for the amount, select 2000 as the start year, select 2019 as the ending year, the calculator comes up with converted amount of $149.00. What this means if to buy a basket of goods (bread, eggs, gasoline), in 2000 if you spend $100 in 2019 you would have to spend $149 to get the same amount of goods.

During that time most people probably got a 1%-2% raise very year, maybe. Of course as people grow older they become more valuable with their skills in the job market so their wages increase. But then that means we are not comparing apples to apples. I did a calculation of what a person making $100,000 per year would be making in 2019 with a consistent 2% raise every year. I come up with $138,000. So this calculates out to around an 8% pay cut over the last 19 years in terms of purchasing power.

I was thinking about the way the calculator works. I think what is more interesting in understanding the problem is not looking at $100 is now equivalent to $149 in 2019. Going in this direction with the numbers makes no sense to me. I think the way to think about this is by going the other way. Plug $67 in the calculator run it and it shows $100 as the converted amount.

In other words, if you start with $100 in 2000, it's now worth $67 in 2019 in terms of what you can buy. That's a freaking HUGE drop in purchasing power!!!

I was spring cleaning a couple of years ago. Many years ago - say in the mid 1990's my better half had a habit of keeping all receipts. It was very depressing to compare a grocery receipt from then to now.

The excuse over the years have been that energy prices have increased, but the actually somewhat stabilized during the Obama years and through the Trump years. Still food costs continue to rise. I am not sure what the excuse is now, maybe more people - but it seems that food is less a rarity now. It does not compute.

My idea is that government is the culprit, they have not adjusted their program for paying farmers to NOT grow a certain percentage of crops therefore keeping prices artificially elevated. I think that could be done much better than it was. Knowing the government, the stats they use to figure that out probably hasn't changed for 50 years or so. Which is bad because crop yield has dramatically increased over that time. Not just a little, but by a magnitude.

THought I would post as Manny Hanny real quick....

IMPEACH TRUMP!!! TRUMP IS A CRIMINAL!!! HE MAKES EVERYTHING BAD!!!

a reply to: Fools

What groceries did you notice went up the most?
Milk, eggs and bread are still cheap, probably lower than inflation should have made them.

Meat is up, or at least beef.
Chicken is fairly cheap yet except wings.

Fresh vegetables are fairly high but when buying fresh asparagus in December you know it's shipped from warm climates.

a reply to: dfnj2015
I agree with this assessment and something I’ve been vocal about many times on this site. Wage increases have not kept up with inflation and have actually decreased dramatically. But there’s always someone saying differently because they’ve been fortunate enough to be part of a small group of people that have received pay increases. This has not been the case for the general public. Certainly hasn’t been true for the construction trade I’ve been involved in for almost forty years.

Once upon a time a family could survive on one paycheck, and it did not require a college degree or special jobs to do it. If there were two incomes it would be easy but not required.

Now two people can struggle to take care of a family, each working full time jobs and leaving kids with no real parenting. Without two incomes it will be almost impossible, it's basically required.

Enough said.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Fools

What groceries did you notice went up the most?
Milk, eggs and bread are still cheap, probably lower than inflation should have made them.

Meat is up, or at least beef.
Chicken is fairly cheap yet except wings.

Fresh vegetables are fairly high but when buying fresh asparagus in December you know it's shipped from warm climates.

All went up in prices. I don't remember the percentages. I wish I would have kept them to report on it. What I do remember was that over all it seemed the bill for all items combined nearly doubled. And I did take into consideration that we did not have children at the time. Well we had my oldest son, but he was only over say 5 days a month so he wasnt that big of a bill.

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: dfnj2015
I agree with this assessment and something I’ve been vocal about many times on this site. Wage increases have not kept up with inflation and have actually decreased dramatically. But there’s always someone saying differently because they’ve been fortunate enough to be part of a small group of people that have received pay increases. This has not been the case for the general public. Certainly hasn’t been true for the construction trade I’ve been involved in for almost forty years.

High skilled jobs have seen wage increases....

However, low skilled jobs have not. A big issue is illegal immigration of low skilled workers AND jobs being sent over seas in those sectors.

It is ironic because many of the people on the left complaining also support illegal immigration and globalism. They can't connect the dots to how their policy positions on the above result in many of the very issues they complain about.

I've brought this up too... feminism and women entering the work force has also suppressed wages over the years as well by increasing the supply of workers. This is not to say that women shouldn't have the ability to work whatever job they want, but you also have to acknowledge the consequences of practically doubling the supply of workers which is inevitably lowering wages.

originally posted by: Fools
THought I would post as Manny Hanny real quick....

IMPEACH TRUMP!!! TRUMP IS A CRIMINAL!!! HE MAKES EVERYTHING BAD!!!

Only impeach Trump if we have real evidence he broke the law. For example, how he admitted on national television he broke Federal Election laws twice. Trumps problem is not the Democrats. Trumps problem is he has stuck his own foot too far down his own throat.

I like Trump pulling troops out of the Middle East. In my opinion, the Middle East is a waste of money. The people living there are just way too belligerent to ever have peace. I just don't care if Arabs are kill Arabs.

And I like what Trump is doing with China on trade. The Chinese pegging the Yuan to the dollar has destroyed ALL our factories. It's not different than if the Chinese invaded this country with military force and destroyed all our livelihoods with guns and tanks. Why should the Chinese make trillions in the US economy using our roads and bridges to distribute their crappy products and NOT pay a single dime in taxes for the upkeep of our transportation system. Eff 'em. Put a $1000 tariff on every container coming into this country and rebuild every single bridge and road in this country. We need good paying jobs to return back to this country or will will have no tax base to support military spending.

That said, if Trump is shown to break the law he should be impeached. If the Democrats broke any laws put the effers in Jail. I just wish more Republicans would openly support putting their own party members in jail. The rule of law and Constitution has to come first before political party in my opinion.

a reply to: Puppylove

That is true in some respects.
Culture has changed in that time too.
June cleaver stayed home and cooked.
They had one car.
They had smaller homes and took shorter trips.

Was it better then?
Is it better now?