War: Can China take Russia with 200 million men?

Originally posted by warset
there is no such a place called "Hai Fong", the spelling "Fong" doesn't exist in Pinyin. It must be a taiwanese spelling or sumthin

Its probaly a englishized pinyin system or bad pinyin by mad scientist

From a biblical perspective, China won't have to take Russia. When Russia and its alies try to invade Israel, God will decimate the forces only leaving a small percentage of troops to retreat. This will leave a power vacuum in the region. The anti-christ will be based in Jerusalem, China and its forces will march toward Israel crossing the dried up Euphrates river.

For more on the future, read the Bible.

Originally posted by MrMicrophone
From a biblical perspective, China won't have to take Russia. When Russia and its alies try to invade Israel, God will decimate the forces only leaving a small percentage of troops to retreat. This will leave a power vacuum in the region. The anti-christ will be based in Jerusalem, China and its forces will march toward Israel crossing the dried up Euphrates river.

For more on the future, read the Bible.

Please stop with that and get back to the issue.

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Besides which, a nuke going off outside the tunnel entrance and penetrating the tunnel entrance will cook everything inside the tunnel.

Thats what they said about smoking the viet cog out of their tunnels. Why do you assume that things like that aren't factored in

I assume they would be factored in. It still doesn't make Cheyenne Mountain nuke proof. In theory the Moscow underground is nuke proof, it's so deep that the explosion will havve no effect on it. But the blast will suck the air straight out of the tunnels to feed the fire. You would survive the surface impact, but not the after effects.

Smoking the VC out was a different strategy altogether, it involved groundforces. Many VC tunnels were not, in fact, bomb-proof, VC would often leave the tunnels during Arclight/Rolling Thunder B52 raids because they could survive the concussion outside, but would be buried inside.

You are talking about a mountain range with a whole bunch of valleys and deep decents. Put a lanuch pad or silo in one of those valleys and you have protection from near nuke blast because its deep inside

Tunnels may be protected from generalised nuke blasts, but an aimed shot (if it could be aimed accurately enough) hitting close by an entrance would blow it open like a champagne bottle. No man-made door is strong enough.

Put a silo on the valley floor and it is cactus. Put it on the valley slopes and I admire your engineering. It is also more survivable, but not if the mountain is brought down on top of it.

Detonate a nuke in a steep valley and you guarantee the utter destruction of everything standing in that valley. Why do you think the US put their silos out on the plains? Contain an explosion and you make it much, much worse.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
I assume they would be factored in. It still doesn't make Cheyenne Mountain nuke proof.

Nothing is nuke proof

The plan of a silo or chinas tunnel silo complex to make the enemy use up as much nukes trying to destroy every last missile and use up a lot of missiles making sure there is not going to be a second strike so there is less missiles or nukes for another place to hit. Like the article said you would need 10,000 nuclear warheads to make sure all of the tunnels are destroyed in a 1,000 kilometer track if it was pin point accurate. If they were going to making something nuke proof than a plane would be make more suited

Many VC tunnels were not, in fact, bomb-proof, Tunnels may be protected from generalised nuke blasts

Not about being bomb proof but rather the fact that the smoke wouldn't travel the whole tunnel but get stopped at somepoint in the tunnel

There would be vents, zigzag tunnels and stopages like a door which would hopfully have diverted the force to a venting area. Just like the VC did with there tunnels with a bit of water stopping the smoke from travelling or the vents which let the smkoe out

Detonate a nuke in a steep valley and you guarantee the utter destruction of everything standing in that valley.

The real plan was not to let them find the missiles. The chinese nuclear doctrime at that time was a relationtory strike weeks even months after a nuclear strike. Thats why destroying the whole tunnel network was nessary, nothing draws fire like a nuclear missile complex

And refer to Deng Xiaopings article about nuclear weapons and their use and chinas uses of them to get a real idea of their worth

Originally posted by warset
totally agree with you

foreign compaines obviously have to pay everything

there is no such a place called "Hai Fong", the spelling "Fong" doesn't exist in Pinyin. It must be a taiwanese spelling or sumthin

It is the name of the factory, they can call it whatever they want seeing as they built it and completely support the surrounding town, not to mention building part of the freeway. The poverty in China is in evidence all ove the place, 3rd world type stuff.

As for tax, seeing as mst of China earns less than a dollar a day, they obviously pay little or no tax, what's the point, it would just starve them to death.

The Farmers pay tax and they are among the poorest of the Chinese people. So you are incorrect.

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by warset
there is no such a place called "Hai Fong", the spelling "Fong" doesn't exist in Pinyin. It must be a taiwanese spelling or sumthin

Its probaly a englishized pinyin system or bad pinyin by mad scientist

LOL dummy, it's anglicised and that is what pinyin is, Mandarin written in roman numerals
Then again, you probably wouldn't know as you don't speak the language

I doubt CHina can take Russia with 200 mil men.First of all good luck arming all those people and getting the money to do it.For every 12 people there's 1 gun and they're all over the world. China would never get the air superiority thanks to Russia's sam network. It would also be a nuclear war which the Russians would win thanks to ABM defenses and shelters not mention a much bigger nuke arsenal.

Originally posted by rogue1
Then again, you probably wouldn't know as you don't speak the language

I speak three types of chinese

Your accusing someone that has done 12 years of chinese schooling. You do realise that?

As for tax, seeing as mst of China earns less than a dollar a day, they obviously pay little or no tax, what's the point, it would just starve them to death.

Change of argument from this. Take your BS somewhere else

""LOL "don't tax peoples incomes ". China's top tax bracket is aout 46% - no tax pfft."""

The poverty in China is in evidence all ove the place, 3rd world type stuff.

Cant you find work in australia?.

The Farmers pay tax and they are among the poorest of the Chinese people. So you are incorrect.

*Cough* BS *cough*

China's 730 million farmers to pay no agricultural taxes



[edit on 26-6-2006 by chinawhite]

I think this one will have to go for Russia simply because China has a lot more to lose in the initial stages of the war. Take a good look at a map and take half the 3200km range of the Su-35 and you'll see how ugly things can get for China once hostilities break out. Even using conventional weapons Beijing is going to be a mess, it's well within range from several directions... not fun. Comparatively China can only just get to the Ural mountains with a similar fighter, which they don't have. So clearly Russia would have more ability to preserve it's air power after inital strikes and more juicy targets to hib back at. On the land front it dosen't look all that much better, going through Tibeten mountains or the Gobi desert just to -get- to Russia will make a logistics nightmare before they even start their invasion, nevermind that means war with Kazakstan or Mongolia. Through it's main route of attack then we see the border and the first big hurdle, the Amur river ((yes that's what the name's from)) it's a big one and you can bet that Russian naval, helicopter and air forces will be having a field day as the chinese attempt to cross it. Then several thousand kilometers of sub-arctic climate with even -more- rivers to cross all before they've reached european Russia. So at best the Chinese can hope to take some of the sparsely inhabited Siberia, freeze in the Russian winter and get kicked all the way back home all this after suffering some crippling strikes to their major cities at the onset of hostilities.

I could conquer Russia on horseback and using bows and arrows if I had 200 million men to do it.

The logisitcs are easy. Once you've armed your 200 million (assuming you have no "tail" to your "teeth") you just keep a professional force with you to do the Mongol Hordes bit and release the other 150 million to ride north in summer and do as they damn well please with no restriction to orders.

King Canute proved you coulnd't hold back the tide by force of will.

With those kinds of numbers you could attack in fifty different places with forces enough to overwhelm the C-grade units Russia keeps in its hinterland.

If you arm as many of your men with automtic weapons as you can you do that much more damage.

The Polish cavalry may have been chopped to pieces by German armour, but the Cossacks did pretty well against the same German armour once it had frozen solid. Of course, once old man winter arrives it's pretty hard to live off the land. But, in summer your horses can keep moving forward while the Russians have to ship diesel up one of the longest, loneliest single rail lines in the world.

As El Aurens what happens to single rail lines.

Say, anybody know where I can get 200,000,000 horses, plus remounts and pack animals. How about mountain bikes?

You seriously think you can make 200 -million- people live off the land, wow... just wow.

Just think about what you're saying there.... everyone in Pakistan can go live off the land, it's the same thing really. Furthermore that still dosen't get them accross rivers mountains and who knows how many other obstacles, let loose like that they'll starve, freeze and get killed. Alexander the Great knew back in his day that he needed a supply train for his army which is only the smallest fraction of what you propose.

Seriously though what were you planning on feeding them? The wildlife that's already spread thin in the area won't last them long enough and would allow them to chalk up another Tiger sub-species that they've killed. How would they cross the rivers? Swim??

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by rogue1
Then again, you probably wouldn't know as you don't speak the language

I speak three types of chinese

Your accusing someone that has done 12 years of chinese schooling. You do realise that?

LOl, you can BS all you want. You admitted several months ago that you're only 16 and living in Wangaratta in country Victoria which is deep in the bush in Australia. So please I know you're full of it You might try and fool people who haven't been used to your BS as much as I.

As for tax, seeing as mst of China earns less than a dollar a day, they obviously pay little or no tax, what's the point, it would just starve them to death.

Change of argument from this. Take your BS somewhere else

""LOL "don't tax peoples incomes ". China's top tax bracket is aout 46% - no tax pfft."""

What BS is that, what I say is true. then again what would you know, you live in teh backwater of Australia. Hell I bet I've spent far more time in China than you ever have, LOL.

The poverty in China is in evidence all ove the place, 3rd world type stuff.

Cant you find work in australia?.

LOL, poor chinawhite, jealous are we. I can find plenty of work and was earning far more than your family probably. I have come to China to learn from an extremely wealthy Taiwanese industrialist.

The Farmers pay tax and they are among the poorest of the Chinese people. So you are incorrect.

*Cough* BS *cough*

China's 730 million farmers to pay no agricultural taxes

Hmm don't you read what you post. They were xempt from some provinces as of last year, before that they were taxed and some provinces still are. They have lfuted the tax vecause it's like flogging a dead horse and they're trying to slow down mugration to teh cities.

Originally posted by Amur Tiger

You seriously think you can make 200 -million- people live off the land, wow... just wow.

Obviously not, if you'd read my last paragraph.

The logistical effort required of a nation to feed 200 million men in the field would bankrupt said nation, no matter how large.

But a migration of 200 million would be awfully hard to stop. And I also stated that they would advance on many, many fronts at once.

Rivers can be crossed easily at the height of Summer, with difficulty and great danger in the middle of Winter and not at all during Spring thaw.

Anyway, my strategy is to cut most of the army loose and let it soak up Russian efforts. No support, no logistical tail, no orders. What you find is yours, what you kill you eat. Don't expect to hear from me again until it's all over, if any of you live we'll give you medals and you can write glorious songs about the millions who die. You're responsible for your own first aid and food.

Pure cannon fodder to disperse and waste Russian effort and resources. Each force a self-contained army with a single, simple overall strategy unifying them: Move north, east and destroy. Settle and rebuild, defend.

The important part is the armies you take across the Urals.

If some idiot drops the bomb it will be the low-tech armies that win.

Originally posted by rogue1
You admitted several months ago that you're only 16 and living in Wangaratta in country Victoria which is deep in the bush in Australia.

Well, I don't know that I'd call Wang "deep in the bush", I mean, it's not even three hours out of Melbourne, but, except to the people who listen to 3NE, it's definitely a backwater. Do they still watch AMV4 out there? I'm sorry, Southern Cross these days. Or has it changed again?

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by warset
totally agree with you

foreign compaines obviously have to pay everything

there is no such a place called "Hai Fong", the spelling "Fong" doesn't exist in Pinyin. It must be a taiwanese spelling or sumthin

It is the name of the factory, they can call it whatever they want seeing as they built it and completely support the surrounding town, not to mention building part of the freeway. The poverty in China is in evidence all ove the place, 3rd world type stuff.

As for tax, seeing as mst of China earns less than a dollar a day, they obviously pay little or no tax, what's the point, it would just starve them to death.

The Farmers pay tax and they are among the poorest of the Chinese people. So you are incorrect.

LOL

you are probably living in one of those area that's still under development or left behind, and u a living within a low class community.
again, this shows u know nothing about china, u would know anything really if u a living in such a low level class community.
but still, just because u a living in a particular low level community doesn't mean china as a whole is a 3rd world country.
If u go to Beijing, for instance, it's a completely different story.

3rd world country, by definition, is those countries neither supported by US capitalism nor Soviet communism; after the cold war, a 3rd world country generally means a country that is neither not developed nor is currently developing.
PRC is a developing country.

If u go to Newfoundland, Canada or Oregon, USA, for example, you see poverty too, but again, u can't call them 3rd world countries.

Originally posted by rogue1
LOl, you can BS all you want. You admitted several months ago that you're only 16 and living in Wangaratta in country Victoria which is deep in the bush in Australia. So please I know you're full of it

Wangaratta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF are you talking about. I said i live in the dandenong region which is the second city of melbounre. I mentioned that several times in this forum. If you ever been to endeavour hills its only 45 minutes from the bloody CBD. I take the princess highway and it takes about 30 mintues.

Please dont try to tell me where i live

Hell I bet I've spent far more time in China than you ever have

Really?. How long would that be?

I can find plenty of work and was earning far more than your family probably. I have come to China to learn from an extremely wealthy Taiwanese industrialist.

Why you in china then?, Its funny when your talking from a little "third world' village in china. Only people without money go to china to make it big, We made money when we were in china and moved to a better country. Simple as that

You earned enough for four houses?

If you ever come to the Putian region in china you will find out how much we earn. From the beginings of the 1980s my family has invested in housing, manufracturing and jewelry. If you want advice on getting money invest in housing. We brought four stories of a apartment complex. The thing about this apartment complex is that they divide the building into two story blocks, each of them is like a house. If you want to compare family wealth then ill include my uncles factories in both putian and xiamen

Im going to china in november and im going to take lots of pictures. I like to see your factory

Hmm don't you read what you post. They were xempt from some provinces as of last year, before that they were taxed and some provinces still are.

I guess you didn't, It said the plans to abolish tax were going to be sped up and if you did more research you would have found out that they were already done

Original article

Fan Xiaojian said that China has increased the target of abolishing farming taxes within five years. The 26 provinces, municipalities and autonomous regions will meet the target ahead of the schedule.

Current one

"The agricultural tax will be exempted throughout the country next year, which means what had been targeted for five years will be achieved in just three,"

Agricultural tax to be scrapped from 2006

[edit on 27-6-2006 by chinawhite]

i dont know how big russia's transportation infrastructure is,
but, the way china ships tons of crap in THE USA...,

massive cargo ships,piled high with cargo containers,
unloaded straight onto trucks, hauled straight to your town..
!!!ALL IN ONE DAY!!!

it would be simple for china to take over the usa

just pack those nifty little shipping containers with supplies,
enough food and stuff for an army..

how many chinese can you pack into one???
HUMAN SMUGGLING PROVES it CAN be done!!!!

imagine on a select day,, just 1 cargo ship
loaded full of chinese army
all set to goto select cities or perhaps all at 1 location

they get to their destination and wait till night
no one would ever expect it

worse than pearl harbor for sure
if they work like ninjas and slay thousands in their sleep,silently
then all get back into their trucks and split to a town far away
(hit n run ) ha ha
and do it all over again...surprise sneak attacks,
popping up all over the country
but..like i said ...i dont know if russia's infrastructure is up
to that kindof level yet

Originally posted by urmomma158

Originally posted by MrMicrophone
From a biblical perspective...................For more on the future, read the Bible.

Please stop with that and get back to the issue.

Well, At least Mr Microphone, hasn't filled 10 Pages of Speculation and Wasted Space compiling Military Machinery Lists for two Forces that will NEVER Face eachother in their respective homelands.

The premise and discussion revolving around something that will NEVER OCCUR has been quite entertaining, but again, this 200 Million Man Army that China can mass within a few days, will never head to Moscow.

The King's of the East's sole purpose is for a Mid East Strike.

Gog and Magog, will also be staged for the Middle East. They may well slaughter eachother when they meet the Army's of the World in the Meggido Valley, and Blood may flow to the height of a Horses bridle, but to dismiss Mr Mircophone's remark and suggest his comments should be directed to the Point, seems like the funniest thing noted so far.

HEY URMOMMA, He's the only one who has even CLUE as to what these forces will be used for, and his opinion and comments are deemed worthless? Go Figure.

After reading 10 Pages of worthless details about a Fictional and Unrealistic Scenario your reply makes me laugh.

Revelations is quite clear what 200 Million Men will be doing.

9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. 16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. 18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Seems like the Figure is accurate.

16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

And this seems to clearly show where they are from.

But to the Point, if you haven't caught on yet Urmomma. The Kings of the North and the Kings of the East may well fight it out, and take 1/3 of the Population with them, but it will not be in the USSR or China. Try the Golan Heights!

And the Bottomline is, they both Loose! Neither Wins

Ciao

Shane






[edit on 27-6-2006 by Shane]

Heres a picture of a PLAN ASM tunnel

img69.imageshack.us...