The Fall of American Culture and the Joker Movie

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: TzarChasm

Gung ho Rambo

When its your children, God forbid, then come on and talk tough.

Excuse me?

a reply to: underwerks

You're a bigger sweetheart than I am. If they can figure out how to hook up with each other online and IRL to bitch about everyone else, they can sure as hell figure out escorts and prostitution without my help.

The ones who threaten violence against other people online can die under the jails for all I care. If nobody has sex with them, their mutant genes will die out eventually anyway. That's just natural selection.

a reply to: Willtell

Nobody with any brains is complaining about violent movies or trying to associate them with "spree killers," since, you know, violent movies existed for almost 100 years before spree-killers became a thing.

You think people are outraged now, wait for the remake of brokeback mountain, it will be called jokeman mountain , a love story of epic proportions, Batman loses his virginity to the joker and becomes a tranny.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Willtell

Have you heard about MidSommar?

Of course, it's not purely American so I guess it doesn't count. Unless it also leads to the fall of Swedish culture.

Ha! I'm watching that right now. It's good.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Jay-morris

Hinkley did it for Jodie. And that was 10 years before "Lambs."

Wasn't it because of her acting in "Taxi Driver", and isn't this movie being called "the modern day Taxi Driver"? So will an attempt on Trump be blamed on this movie? Was the movie a pre-planned set up as a trigger? Will censorship of films be next? When will it end?

I don't buy the Hinkley explanation as to why he did it, but whatever. This movie though wasn't that good, but given the quality of todays movies, I guess it's great? After watching it, I thought about Taxi Driver, and how far we've gone from artsy films and character driven dramas to IP required stories that lack depth. I don't think the "Joker" would work as a stand alone film based off of a guy losing it. There wasn't anything in the film that made me want to care about Arthur Fleck. If it wasn't for the mythos of the Joker in the comics, the movie wouldn't have been worth it. Even with the comics to hang back on it wasn't really worth it. Which Joker was this supposed to be anyways?

Anyways, the movie it self aside, I wonder if having a movie stuffed with anti-Trump actors, getting labeled as the next "Taxi Driver", and being targeted at people that are boarder lined anti-social is such a great idea unless the idea is to give an excuse to the next Presidential Assassin. Watch how quickly the next mass shooting will be blamed on this movie though. Watch how little Hollywood will care, but will deflect back to "guns r' bad" motto.

a reply to: TzarChasm Excellent synopsis of the flik Tzar.

I saw it this afternoon mostly because of my appreciation of the acting skills of Phoenix and I was not disappointed in in his characterization.

Opposite of you who saw it as hijacking a comic villain while masquerading as a mockumentary. I saw it a a mockumentary utilizing a familiar iconic character which happened to be a comic icon.

The development of the main character be he Joker or Hosslover Fat was not just one bad night and a poor decision but rather a breakdown of our our whole social system upon which so many incapable of self balance depend for support. His meds were taken from him, his job, his belief in his mother etc.

The outcome was predictable. I knew he would blow away the tv host and become an accidental hero to all the others who are likewise incapable of self balance.

An interesting side line of the movie was it's close relationship to another move decades ago and interestingly staring a young DeNiro. That was King of Comedy.

That movie depicted Jerry Lewis as the late night host and DeNiro as a paparazzi who fancies himself a stand up comic. The movies were similar in that both portrayed the fascination and fantasy , indeed outright delusion of the main characters in their dreams of fame and recognition. In King, DeNiro kidnaps Lewis with a ransom demand that he be allowed the comic slot on one nights program. A much lighter fare then Joker, but still the points were the same, our pop cultures are prying people away from reality where almost anything they can dream of can be accomplished, even if it goes way beyond the rules. Because the rules no longer matter .

a reply to: Willtell

I've seen it. It's no TDK The Dark Knight. They didn't raise any flags back in 2008?

Heath Legend was way better.

I'm just continually amazed at how so many people can grow up with the internet their enitre lives and still not be able to spot a troll when they see one. If anyone bothered to research the incel community it is mostly made up of maladjusted, but entirely harmless people that lack any semblance of control in their lives. So like many do in that situation they seek out like individuals (in this case online) and form a group. The majority of the stuff people cite about incels comes from the trolls that are just using it to push people's buttons and create disorder.

Just as like we've seen with the whole white supremacist narrative (the jackholes behind this even admit to this being their aim in order to get the opposite side to react and behave erratically in response -- which they predictably have). I mean, bowlcuts? Seriously, c'mon now. People really need to get some more situational awareness if they're going to live in this modern world.

Also, a lot of this "controversy" is being purposely marketed to promote the movie. If you haven't noticed that is how you market something these days -- outrage, fear and ignorance.

Stop feeding the trolls and stop falling prey to opportunistic predators. And above all, deny ignorance.

I wonder just how many asshat Elliot Rodgers clones there are out there and on this forum. Things that make you go hmmmm.


Congress is looking into the issue of incels and how to best deal with them.
Democrats are sending therapists to help them cope with their issues and live a normal life.

Republicans are sending thots and prayers.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Jay-morris

Hinkley did it for Jodie. And that was 10 years before "Lambs."

Chapman killed Lennon because of J.D. Salinger.

The point is, it's just a trigger. If it was not one thing, it would have been another thing down the line.

It's not about movies, celebs, music, videogames etc This is just an excuse to blame something.

Mental health is a huge problem in the world. This is the core problem thst needs to be addressed somehow, and not blaming the things that trigger certain people to go through with the violent acts.

originally posted by: underwerks

Incel is a term that was adopted in the ‘90s by an online subgroup of self-professed “involuntary celibate” men. Over time, some radicalized members of the incel community have formed an ideology that promotes violence. Elliot Rodger self-identified as an incel before he killed six people near the campus of the University of California, Santa Barbara in 2014. And James Holmes, the man who opened fire in a crowded movie theater in 2012 has become a bit of a hero to the incel community. It’s often been repeated that Holmes was inspired by the Joker, a claim that primarily rests on statements the killer reportedly made to police after the fact in which he said he “was the Joker.” Speaking with the Hollywood Reporter, Daniel Oates, Aurora’s chief of police at the time, said that “there is no evidence” the shooter ever said that.

In the alert emailed to service members, Army officials claimed that incels “also idolize the Joker character, the violent clown from the Batman series, admiring his depiction as a man who must pretend to be happy, but eventually fights back against bullies.”

No booty can make a man crazy. Maybe there needs to be some kind of public fund set up to get these guys laid. Taxpayer funded yearly trips to Nevada. I'd rather my taxes go to that than bombing the middle east.

So you support the sex trade industry, where hundred to thousands are forced into it by various nefarious means? No dude/dudette we dont need to get them laid, we need to simply stop paying attention to them.

a reply to: AyinSof

Heath Ledger reminded me of Brandon Lee, nothing suspicious in these things whatsoever,

But please, people, if you can relate at some level to these smiley face characters, please don`t.

We already have enough fools and hanged men wobbling about.

originally posted by: solve
a reply to: AyinSof

Heath Ledger reminded me of Brandon Lee, nothing suspicious in these things whatsoever,

But please, people, if you can relate at some level to these smiley face characters, please don`t.

We already have enough fools and hanged men wobbling about.

Brandon Lee was shot. Bruce Lee was murdered. Yet these chinese are at America's doorsteps.

originally posted by: AyinSof

originally posted by: solve
a reply to: AyinSof

Heath Ledger reminded me of Brandon Lee, nothing suspicious in these things whatsoever,

But please, people, if you can relate at some level to these smiley face characters, please don`t.

We already have enough fools and hanged men wobbling about.

Brandon Lee was shot. Bruce Lee was murdered. Yet these chinese are at America's doorsteps.

Bruce lee was murdered? Please explain how he was murdered?

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: AyinSof

originally posted by: solve
a reply to: AyinSof

Heath Ledger reminded me of Brandon Lee, nothing suspicious in these things whatsoever,

But please, people, if you can relate at some level to these smiley face characters, please don`t.

We already have enough fools and hanged men wobbling about.

Brandon Lee was shot. Bruce Lee was murdered. Yet these chinese are at America's doorsteps.

Bruce lee was murdered? Please explain how he was murdered?

Betty Ting Pei killed Bruce Lee. She was paid to do it.

Similar to how Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain, she hired someone to kill him for his money, slightly different storylines.

originally posted by: AyinSof

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: AyinSof

originally posted by: solve
a reply to: AyinSof

Heath Ledger reminded me of Brandon Lee, nothing suspicious in these things whatsoever,

But please, people, if you can relate at some level to these smiley face characters, please don`t.

We already have enough fools and hanged men wobbling about.

Brandon Lee was shot. Bruce Lee was murdered. Yet these chinese are at America's doorsteps.

Bruce lee was murdered? Please explain how he was murdered?

Betty Ting Pei killed Bruce Lee. She was paid to do it.

Similar to how Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain, she hired someone to kill him for his money, slightly different storylines.

And how did she manage to do that? It's quite obvious how bruce Lee died. He has his sweat glands removed from his armpits. It was heat stroke what killed him.

Heat stroke was not considered at the time because it was then a poorly-understood condition. Because of the sweat glands bring removed, this made his body over heat. So no mystery there!

And I am a huge Bruce lee fan!

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: AyinSof

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: AyinSof

originally posted by: solve
a reply to: AyinSof

Heath Ledger reminded me of Brandon Lee, nothing suspicious in these things whatsoever,

But please, people, if you can relate at some level to these smiley face characters, please don`t.

We already have enough fools and hanged men wobbling about.

Brandon Lee was shot. Bruce Lee was murdered. Yet these chinese are at America's doorsteps.

Bruce lee was murdered? Please explain how he was murdered?

Betty Ting Pei killed Bruce Lee. She was paid to do it.

Similar to how Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain, she hired someone to kill him for his money, slightly different storylines.

And how did she manage to do that? It's quite obvious how bruce Lee died. He has his sweat glands removed from his armpits. It was heat stroke what killed him.

Heat stroke was not considered at the time because it was then a poorly-understood condition. Because of the sweat glands bring removed, this made his body over heat. So no mystery there!

And I am a huge Bruce lee fan!

Bruce Lee dies during shooting.
Brandon Lee dies during shooting.

They were blood sacrifices to molech, says I.

originally posted by: AyinSof

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: AyinSof

originally posted by: Jay-morris

originally posted by: AyinSof

originally posted by: solve
a reply to: AyinSof

Heath Ledger reminded me of Brandon Lee, nothing suspicious in these things whatsoever,

But please, people, if you can relate at some level to these smiley face characters, please don`t.

We already have enough fools and hanged men wobbling about.

Brandon Lee was shot. Bruce Lee was murdered. Yet these chinese are at America's doorsteps.

Bruce lee was murdered? Please explain how he was murdered?

Betty Ting Pei killed Bruce Lee. She was paid to do it.

Similar to how Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain, she hired someone to kill him for his money, slightly different storylines.

And how did she manage to do that? It's quite obvious how bruce Lee died. He has his sweat glands removed from his armpits. It was heat stroke what killed him.

Heat stroke was not considered at the time because it was then a poorly-understood condition. Because of the sweat glands bring removed, this made his body over heat. So no mystery there!

And I am a huge Bruce lee fan!

Bruce Lee dies during shooting.
Brandon Lee dies during shooting.

They were blood sacrifices to molech, says I.

Absolute rubbish! An an insult to bruce Lee's legacy. As expected, no evidence to back up your claim!

Superhero/Supervillain movies are so overused at the moment. Most of the money film producers are spending is nowadays spent on superhero-movies, and they're not even all that good. But I guess they're happy with the box office results. The only good ones are The Guardians of the Galaxy and Avengers:Infinity Wars, even Endgame wasn't all that great (in spite of the massive budget) and I already liked the 2nd GOTG movie quite a bit less than the first. The first Iron Man was sort of interesting and perhaps Captain America: Civil War (although mostly just for the one scene where all the heroes are fighting eachother and you get to see how all the skills and abilities compare, which is only for a few minutes).

Black Panther, Captain America: Winter Soldier and the X-men film series were the worst. Around the time Winter Soldier came out I became really tired of seeing another superhero movie. Ah well, at least it's not another Fast and Furious or Mission Impossible movie, or Ocean's 27. Or Star Trek movie where Vulcans aren't behaving as Vulcans and aren't being all that logical (bad writing).

Sigh, where are the good classics. Terminator: Salvation was sort of allright, made so by Christian Bale. Too bad they didn't make a sequel for that one. I could do without another sequel for Transformers as well. It always seems that the movies that I like don't get a sequel (like Master and Commander) while the movies that attract a broader audience, usually ones I like a lot less, do get plenty of sequels (like Pirates of the Caribbean if we're comparing with a good naval warfare movie spanning that era).

Another blockbuster historical movie like Braveheart or with a smaller budget like Gettysburg (1993) would be nice though. I also thoroughly enjoyed the movie Andersonville. Especially the build up to this scene (there's some real fire in the eyes and some excellent acting):

I'm with ye Jim! Definitely feeling it.

These type of movies based on real history deserve a lot more love from the movie-going audience, then we can get more of them, with higher budgets for special effects and actors that actually get you engaged in the movie, make you care about what happens next (good writing for these actors not to be overlooked). Too bad "300" and "Alexander" were so bad, and that style was picked up by many other similar historical movies.

Sadly, the market seems to enjoy the more sicker movies like Deadpool and Suicide Squad (if you're thinking of superhero/supervillain movies) or endless sequels of Saw and The Purge for the lower budget movies designed to appeal to those with issues and questionable urges (and desires as to what they like to see in a movie).

I just read a comment on IMDB about Andersonville that mentions:
"It might have been more interesting to see the camp from the beginning, and to trace the descent of the camp into what it became."

I would so love that for another movie, perhaps even with some of the same key people working on the project (they did such a fine job). If there ever was a movie that deserves a prequel like that, it's Andersonville (although a sequel to Gettysburg wouldn't be a bad idea either, I didn't particularly like the prequel "Gods and Generals", too fast-paced in terms of the actual battles, too much in one movie, just all around a worse acting performance and storywriting compared to Gettysburg). Maybe they should make a Civil War TV-show with the budget of Game of Thrones, since it has ended anyway. And follow the pattern of Gettysburg (1993). Then you can have one or more episodes about Andersonville as well. Just don't make it another "North and South" or "War and Peace" style show (soap, drama, saga). One could do the same for other eras, such as the Thirty Years' War in Europe, which has such a rich and wide source of material to choose episodes from, multiple factions, religious and philosophical aspects, politics and of course, battles. No need at all to make it about who is dating who, who is interested or attracted to who, who is sleeping with who, and promoting an LGBTQ political agenda (as in Game of Thrones for example, since that's the budget I'm thinking of that could be better spent). And if they can't resist using the usual violence and gore to tickle people's ears, at least they have a legitimate excuse to put it in as well as educate some people in the process rather than try to force-fit sicker and sicker stuff to pour down people's throats as in Game of Thrones again (for comparison) just for the cheap effects based on the state of human society (the potential audience), or cheap thrills.