Our political system is totally broken. Can it be fixed or are we doomed?

a reply to: ADVISOR

We the People, are the government. Those elected officials are representative of our will, not their own.

Tell that to the corporate oligarchs that have all the money, power and the MIC in the palm of their hand.

If voting made any difference....it would be illegal.

a reply to: olaru12

“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”

― Adam Smith

a reply to: Riffrafter

Today we can scream at Democratic corruption. And that's nice. But tomorrow, when we have established that this is not how we do things in our nation, we can look at republicans as well. Perhaps start some grass roots work to get accountability for your money once you are elected. If they work for us, why can't we have transparency on where their millions emenate from? Millions are very popular among our elected officials. But since they are all doing it, it's best we just don't talk about that.

Staying focused on the task at hand is step 1. And nothing will work if that isn't done correctly.

The power of the office of the President (and Executive Branch) should be restored to CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITS.

The power of the Senate Majority Leader, an unelected and non-Constitutional office, should be restored to CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITS.

The power of the Federal Government should be restored to CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITS.

That would solve 90% of the problems we face IMO.

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk
a reply to: Riffrafter

Here is an easy fix: any candidate that wins (whether President, Senate, Congress, etc.) is automatically fitted with a non-removable shock collar. The citizens will each be given a controller with a button for each elected representative. Any time any rep lies or does anything shady if a certain percentage (say maybe 50%) of citizens push their controller buttons for said rep they get shocked like a bad dog, and if over 75 % push their buttons said rep is electrocuted and replaced!

Ha!

I love it!!

The other benefit to this is that the average american will begin paying more attention to politics and current events for the sheer entertainment value if for no other reason!

originally posted by: odzeandennz
America's political system is exactly where it should be.

It's just a laugh. How do you think rome collapsed

Exactly odzeandennz!

Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Riffrafter

SCOTUS took out our "Democracy" with the "Citizen's United" ruling. It's not totally their fault though, because the US Constitution, (the same Constitution that considered people of color of 3/5th of a "person",) as amended by Congress, sees corporations as legal entities and therefore are "persons". They ruled that $$$ equals "free speech".

It'll take an act of Congress, a congressional amendment, that must be ratified by 2/3rd of the states, to change that.

California had it on the 2016 ballot, and it passed. Kudos to California.

Well said - and I agree that ruling was the final nail in the coffin of our current election system.

Corporations are people too....how the hell did that ever get codified into law? And even though SCOTUS' ruling is binding on all americans and lower courts, there is nothing preventing us from passing another law which trashes the existing law (and therefore the SCOTUS ruling based on it).

Up until now, we haven't had the political will to do it. Maybe after this latest fiasco, people will start to wake up and begin demanding more of their congressional representatives.

Or maybe I'm dreaming...

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

a reply to: DBCowboy

We're people. Humans. We are small, greedy, flawed creatures.

No matter the system, it'll always be flawed and imperfect because we are flawed and imperfect.

True.

We have let things go this way for a long, long time. It might take a huge disaster of biblical proportions in order for people to wake up, get off their asses and actually do something.

Some people talk a good game, but at the end of the day, they are content to let someone else lead the way and then - maybe - they'll jump on the bandwagon.

We are a nation of sheep.

It's long past time for a wolf to come on the scene...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
The power of the office of the President (and Executive Branch) should be restored to CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITS.

The power of the Senate Majority Leader, an unelected and non-Constitutional office, should be restored to CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITS.

The power of the Federal Government should be restored to CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITS.

That would solve 90% of the problems we face IMO.

This would work but it would do away with all the safety nets we have put in place to help society function. And the turmoil it would cause as all the federal programs shut down may start a civil war as millions will be effected

originally posted by: Gryphon66
However, the argument that "the popular vote allows urban centers to control the county" is extremely flawed.

how is this flawed? are you saying that the population of North Dakota is the same as New York?

I do not understand, please elaborate. What flaw do you mean?

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Riffrafter

You have to realize something. You can speculate as much as you want. But the people in power like things EXACTLY the way they are. Although your OP is very creative, the problem is the people in power simply do not want CHANGE.

That may be true - but if we could get our acts together, we *vastly* outnumber them. That alone probably gives them the shivers. They need someone with charisma and verve to electrify them and to convince them that they have the power to change things. They just have to own it.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

You are assuming the political system is broken. Maybe it's working just as it is intended to.

It keeps people divided through various fracture lines: race, religion, sex, age, class, geography, etc. All the while government chugs along, doing what is best for government and lobbyists instead of what's best for the people.

And it will continue to do so until people stand up and say "I've had enough - it's time for a change". Remember that movie (I forgot the name) that ended with Richard Holden shouting "I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore".

A little more of that might go a long way in this disgusted electorate climate.

a reply to: thedigirati

All due respect you can read what I said above. DId I say that New Yorkers are the same as South Dakotans?

Nope, not even close.

The number of Electors is based on the number of PEOPLE. The Electors are charged in most states with voting for the winner (take all) of the POPULAR VOTE in the state.

One may remember something about the government of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE etc.

The Electoral College was among the most debated topics at the Constitutional Convention. It was a compromise to divide POWER ... it had little to do with insuring that the will of the PEOPLE was implemented.

If an individual person's vote in South Dakota counts multiple times as much as a individual person's vote in New York City ... how is THAT fair?

The EC is based on popular vote in almost all states with a "winner take all" approach.

To claim that the popular vote itself is somehow unfair is to undermine the basis of the EC.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I am not in favor of abolishing the Electoral College unless it is done by the Constitutional means provided.

However, the argument that "the popular vote allows urban centers to control the county" is extremely flawed.

The outcome of the EC (with one exception) has always relied on the popular vote. Yes, the Electors can vote differently, but rarely have.

Very well put!

There are some really good minds out there as evidenced by many of the responses here. I'd like to believe that ATS is simply a microcosm of the greater whole, but I think that would be flawed thinking. So maybe it starts here and spreads.

Could happen, n'est pas?

a reply to: Riffrafter

Network, 1977, and it was Albert Finney.

One of my favorites if not my favorite film. Holden played Finney's boss.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
The Iran-Contra Affair (Iran seems to be an American theme) and Marilyn Monroe. You're welcome.

Good one! I forgot about Kennedy killing off MM with an enema to shut her up.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Riffrafter

Network, 1977, and it was Albert Finney.

One of my favorites if not my favorite film. Holden played Finney's boss.

Yes!

Thanks for the correction!

a reply to: Riffrafter

Sorry if it seemed nitpicking ... it's a great role and a great film, LOL.

a reply to: spiritualarchitect

What is hilarious is no one liked Reagan until after he was out of office ..similar to bush W. Today..

Everyone liked Kennedy, but that could be a bad thing.. charismatic leaders get good people to do horrible things.


I find it super suspect that the same people promoting lesser term limits are the same people supporting corporations donating millions to buy off politicians..


To vote that way obviously they are paid off by said corporations, do why would they promote something that hurts those corporations now??


Obviously they wouldn’t.. so that means the same big corporations buying off politicians WANT shorter term limits...


So why do they want shorter term limits??


I can only come up with 2 options...

1) it is cheaper to buy off rookie politicians..


2) it is really about getting people not to trust the government..


There are only 2 options..


1) trust the government to regulate big business....


2) you trust big business...

Because by not trusting the government to regulate them, you are inherently saying you trust them to regulate themselves..

And that is a dead on accurate way to compare dems and republicans..

Democrats trust the government more than big business..

Republicans trust big business more than the government..

Sure a lot of republicans would claim “I don’t trust anyone..”

But that is a fallacy... by not trusting the government more , you are inherently trusting big business..


Which would make them sowing distrust the exact same as the corporations actually having their support.