Trump's envoy for Ukraine resigns as scrutiny of his role in Trump-Zelensky scandal grows

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
So I have no idea what this could mean.
Maybe this is a precursor to tossing Giuliani under the bus....

According to the whistleblower complaint, Volker and another U.S. ambassador, Gordon Sondland, had met with Giuliani to try to "contain the damage" his efforts were having on U.S. national security. The whistleblower said Volker and Sondland also met with Ukrainian officials to help them navigate the "differing messages" they were getting through official U.S. government channels and Giuliani's private outreach.

What it could mean is that the phone call was just part of the overall activity.

I've already seen some IC member hinting that this affair goes back to 2018, if so, then this is a strategically planned conspiracy.

a reply to: HanyManny

I can't find info about those 40+ Republican Senators. Do you have a link?

a reply to: carewemust

The State Department didn't trust the FBI, and therefore asked him to go collect the evidence that Ukraine's new Administration wanted the USA to have.

That's quite a statement, and no way to run a government.

So, you or Giuliani(?) are saying that Mike Pompeo doesn't trust Christopher Wray? The whole State Department doesn't trust the whole FBI? Trump doesn't trust his appointee Christopher Wray?

So, Trump and Pompeo, in order to usurp the FBI, send in Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, to collect evidence against Joe and Hunter Biden?

These are not good excuses and certainly not good optics for the Trump Administration.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I think it means that Volker won't be toeing the Trump line, and since he quit, the administration can't force him.

I think it means he's a free agent, and the White House can't gag his testimony.

An interesting possibility.

If I read correctly, the position is an honorary one and he doesn't get a salary. What he DOES have that he might find more valuable is the chairmanship at a university

Volker quit the unpaid position with the State Department, according to Arizona State University President Michael Crow. Crow told The Arizona Republic, part of the USA TODAY Network, that his staff discussed the matter with Volker, who is the executive director of the McCain Institute for International Leadership at ASU

Same source: Freep -www.freep.com...

The Hill also has a longer piece on this, but it covers pretty much the same ground as Freep: thehill.com...

a reply to: underwerks

This may be. He has been a useful clown to gather some of the laughter away from Trump and on to himself. That may have reached it's saturation point and he in that role is no longer of use to Trump.

originally posted by: BrennanHuff22

originally posted by: Byrd
Detroit Free Press, luckily, isn't so stingy with details:
www.freep.com...

President Donald Trump's special envoy for Ukraine, Kurt Volker, resigned on Friday amid growing questions about his role in connecting Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, with Ukrainian officials.

also...

According to the whistleblower complaint, Volker and another U.S. ambassador, Gordon Sondland, had met with Giuliani to try to "contain the damage" his efforts were having on U.S. national security. The whistleblower said Volker and Sondland also met with Ukrainian officials to help them navigate the "differing messages" they were getting through official U.S. government channels and Giuliani's private outreach.

Lots more details in that news story.

We are going to find out what a snake this guy is.

He is executive director of the Mccain institute.

He has ties to Dan Kramer of Mccain institute fame. Remember he is the one who went to London to meet with steele and brought back the dossier and handed it over to the FBI.

Have a feeling that he was trying to set up the Trump Admin.

That is why Rudy showed his phone with texts from Kurt asking for his help.

Time will tell....

There's an article on Vox that provides some interesting details

For instance, one day after the now-infamous July 25 phone call between Trump and Zelensky, Volker visited Kyiv and met with Zelensky and other Ukrainian political figures, according to the complaint.

At that meeting, Volker provided Ukrainian leaders with advice on how to “navigate” the demands for investigations that Trump had made of Zelensky during the call, the whistleblower writes. (The whistleblower’s source for this claim is “multiple readouts of these meetings recounted to me by various US officials.”)


That might sound concerning — but Volker is mentioned again later in the complaint, where he is characterized positively. The whistleblower writes that, according to US officials, Volker spoke with Giuliani with the goal of trying to “contain the damage” to US national security that Giuliani was causing.
source: www.vox.com...

The interactions between Volker and Giuliani are interesting - each seems to regard the other as a loose cannon. However, as the article I just quoted says (with a lot more interesting detail) the US State Department apparently supported what Volker was doing (implying that Giuliani is very rash) and that he may have been trying to do damage control for Trump.

a reply to: smurfy

I think you make a good point here smurf. A pronged attack on a foreign president whose only credentials for office was as a comic. Guiliani and others working for info and Trump nudging him towards finding information was just part of the pressure that was placed on this guy.

originally posted by: HanyManny
It looks like now that Trump is going to be impeached, and that there is hard and fast evidence of his crimes (he has admitted them: influencing an election with a foreign power, obstruction), so the folks want to dis-associate with Trump and his corruption. Pretty simple to see. Already over 40 Republicans in the Senate have admitted they will vote to impeach. The House is now moving quickly to draw up the articles, so this will be a done deal by Christmas.

This is the present under your tree...

I think that at this point it's too early to predict what will happen. Trump seems to be able to survive issues that would have brought down presidents in a less partisan environment. I wish we had a stronger third and fourth party around, frankly; in situations like this, the two-party system is clearly a great disadvantage.

I don't think it'll be over by Christmas, alas. I hope that it will be over in 2020 but I expect things will get crazier and crazier until next Christmas.

Although I don't particularly like living in "interesting times", I do find myself intrigued and fascinated by these events.

a reply to: Byrd

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I will consider your words.

a reply to: carewemust

He was. The state department does not get private citizens to negotiate with world leaders.
They just dont.

a reply to: Byrd

The interactions between Volker and Giuliani are interesting - each seems to regard the other as a loose cannon. However, as the article I just quoted says (with a lot more interesting detail) the US State Department apparently supported what Volker was doing (implying that Giuliani is very rash) and that he may have been trying to do damage control for Trump.

In my OP I admitted I had little to go on with this as I had not followed this avenue of the information flow enough to make concerned comments. Thanks to you and others for bringing forth information that is worth scoping out.

For a bit I considered that Volker was over there in a volunteer position to serve his own clandestine agenda but now I am leaning heavily towards that info above, he was there on the part of the State Department to help regulate what Guiliani was spreading.

This view offers the suggestion that maybe Pompeo is working as a Trump clean up boy, working to smooth out and clear the messes that Trump is making, at least over there in the Ukraine. If so, I wonder just how long Pompeo can keep doing this with out Trump turning on him too.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: BrennanHuff22

originally posted by: Byrd
Detroit Free Press, luckily, isn't so stingy with details:
www.freep.com...

President Donald Trump's special envoy for Ukraine, Kurt Volker, resigned on Friday amid growing questions about his role in connecting Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, with Ukrainian officials.

also...

According to the whistleblower complaint, Volker and another U.S. ambassador, Gordon Sondland, had met with Giuliani to try to "contain the damage" his efforts were having on U.S. national security. The whistleblower said Volker and Sondland also met with Ukrainian officials to help them navigate the "differing messages" they were getting through official U.S. government channels and Giuliani's private outreach.

Lots more details in that news story.

We are going to find out what a snake this guy is.

He is executive director of the Mccain institute.

He has ties to Dan Kramer of Mccain institute fame. Remember he is the one who went to London to meet with steele and brought back the dossier and handed it over to the FBI.

Have a feeling that he was trying to set up the Trump Admin.

That is why Rudy showed his phone with texts from Kurt asking for his help.

Time will tell....

There's an article on Vox that provides some interesting details

For instance, one day after the now-infamous July 25 phone call between Trump and Zelensky, Volker visited Kyiv and met with Zelensky and other Ukrainian political figures, according to the complaint.

At that meeting, Volker provided Ukrainian leaders with advice on how to “navigate” the demands for investigations that Trump had made of Zelensky during the call, the whistleblower writes. (The whistleblower’s source for this claim is “multiple readouts of these meetings recounted to me by various US officials.”)


That might sound concerning — but Volker is mentioned again later in the complaint, where he is characterized positively. The whistleblower writes that, according to US officials, Volker spoke with Giuliani with the goal of trying to “contain the damage” to US national security that Giuliani was causing.
source: www.vox.com...

The interactions between Volker and Giuliani are interesting - each seems to regard the other as a loose cannon. However, as the article I just quoted says (with a lot more interesting detail) the US State Department apparently supported what Volker was doing (implying that Giuliani is very rash) and that he may have been trying to do damage control for Trump.

I read the article you linked. Its more of an opinion piece than an actual news article as it pushes what ifs and theories.

It uses the whistleblowers words as fact:

"the whistleblower complaint, which describes Trump and Giuliani’s effort to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter, characterizes Volker as involved in the back-and-forth between Giuliani and the Ukrainians — though the precise nature of his role isn’t clear.

For instance, one day after the now-infamous July 25 phone call between Trump and Zelensky, Volker visited Kyiv and met with Zelensky and other Ukrainian political figures, according to the complaint.

At that meeting, Volker provided Ukrainian leaders with advice on how to “navigate” the demands for investigations that Trump had made of Zelensky during the call, the whistleblower writes. (The whistleblower’s source for this claim is “multiple readouts of these meetings recounted to me by various US officials.”)

Lots of references to "according to the complaint" and “multiple readouts of these meetings recounted to me by various US officials.”

Which is kind of laugh out loud funny.

The state department also reached out to Rudy, per this article; www.newsweek.com...

"During an appearance on Fox News show The Ingraham Angle last night, Giuliani revealed 15 text messages between himself, U.S. Special Representative to Ukraine Kurt Volker, and U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland.

"Volker and Sondland congratulated me for what I was doing," Giuliani said. "[Volker] should step forward and explain what he did. The whistleblower falsely alleges that I was operating on my own. Well, I wasn't operating on my own.

"I went to meet Mr. Zelensky's aide at the request of the State Department. Fifteen memos make that clear. I didn't know Mr. Yermak. On July 19, you see it right there, 2019 at 4:48 in the afternoon I got a call from Volker, Volker said would you meet with him, it'd be helpful to us, we really want you to do it."

a reply to: carewemust
On trumps accord not his own. LOL.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: carewemust

He was. The state department does not get private citizens to negotiate with world leaders.
They just dont.

I think they do.

www.newsweek.com...

"I went to meet Mr. Zelensky's aide at the request of the State Department. Fifteen memos make that clear. I didn't know Mr. Yermak. On July 19, you see it right there, 2019 at 4:48 in the afternoon I got a call from Volker, Volker said would you meet with him, it'd be helpful to us, we really want you to do it."

You were saying?

a reply to: BrennanHuff22

Its not like they are not going to investigate every claim. A complaint is not a trial. An investigation will follow this as it has already begun.

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: underwerks

This may be. He has been a useful clown to gather some of the laughter away from Trump and on to himself. That may have reached it's saturation point and he in that role is no longer of use to Trump.

I'm just thinking of him recently screaming "I'm the hero!" And his tendency to deny what he's asked about then confirm it in the same sentence.

If he has to testify it's over with.

a reply to: BrennanHuff22
Ya got something other than Giuliani saying it?
The state department for instance?
I think he is a liar.
Look up whether the state department sends private citizens to negotiate and all you will get is articles about the logan act.
Give me a break...
What he just did was guarantee they subpoena his phone along with himself.

a reply to: underwerks

He is going to have to testify.
Should be interesting to say the least.

a reply to: Byrd

You mention interesting times. This alone is a vast topic for discussion and risking a drift of my own OP I think that they are, interesting times.

Im 72. Fifty years ago I first considered that these could be interesting times, first in an apocalyptic sense and then in an eschatological sense. Along the way I have tried to disassociate from this notion recognizing that throughout history many people and groups all over the world have adhered to this idea, that the end was nigh but were proven wrong by the continuation of our still being here now. I have failed in this attempt.

The length and breath of transition in this period of time I have been privileged to experience are exhilarating. I have tried to find another time in our history where things have changed and transitioned on such a scope and I just cannot find one.
What I have found is just how transitory all of this around us really is. Our traditions, our dogmas, our potentials for change have all been challenged by our rapid advances in tech, production, information spread are almost overwhelming. To this I find that holding to much of these which might have been in the past considered as being ''truth'' or ''the way things are'' are at best momentary glimpses of potentiality. In many ways I see us all as sitting in front of an opening Schrodinger's box and speculating whether or not that cat will be dead or alive.

a reply to: Sillyolme

I'm pre-ordering a giant bag of popcorn for that day.