Vaping, Tobacco, and the coming of the new Prohibition

It's pretty simple, don't use CBD or THC additives as they're the only ones doing any damage.

a reply to: rickymouse

The E-Juice comes of course in a variety of flavors or no flavors. It also comes with no nicotine or in various strengths from like 2mm up to 28mm. My own experience was that the cheaper vape pens were not good for me and the fluids that are in preloaded tanks are dangerous.

I found a shop who sold a much higher quality vape system and mixed their own flavors, and nicotine. It was in a market that was more locally regulated so they were stickers on the process. They did not mix any fluids until someone came in and absolutely no minors anywhere on location.

It's not for everyone as we are all different. Some people are allergic to different things and some are not. Nicotine is a poison and too much can not only make you sick but can kill. I do think that the fluids containing the THC and the oil it requires is responsible for the Illness. But cheaper products that dont entirely vaporize the fluids are also a problem.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
Big tobacco, and their e cigerette equivelants are knowingly targeting vulnerable women and children with addictive flavored products. You don't seriously think that strawberry bubble gum flavor vapes are being sold to grown men. It's like back ion the day with strawberry flavored cigarettes and camel mild. They target vulnerable and easily influenced groups in order to wring every last cent out of them that they can.

Do you remember when candy cigarettes were sold in supermarkets and drug stores? They were obviously intended as a sort of gateway to buying real cigarettes.

originally posted by: DJMSN
a reply to: rickymouse

The E-Juice comes of course in a variety of flavors or no flavors. It also comes with no nicotine or in various strengths from like 2mm up to 28mm. My own experience was that the cheaper vape pens were not good for me and the fluids that are in preloaded tanks are dangerous.

I found a shop who sold a much higher quality vape system and mixed their own flavors, and nicotine. It was in a market that was more locally regulated so they were stickers on the process. They did not mix any fluids until someone came in and absolutely no minors anywhere on location.

It's not for everyone as we are all different. Some people are allergic to different things and some are not. Nicotine is a poison and too much can not only make you sick but can kill. I do think that the fluids containing the THC and the oil it requires is responsible for the Illness. But cheaper products that dont entirely vaporize the fluids are also a problem.

I am not tolerant to propylene glycol. I cannot eat food with propylene glycol in it, like the double acting vanilla or some of the fake maple flavorings. I cannot use shampoo with it in there either. I researched the genetics part of it and evidently it is metabolically intolerant for many people to use it. I am just one of many. I have avoided the cigarettes with it in it for many years because I cannot breath correctly if I smoke one of them. It is used to keep the cigarettes from drying out. I used to smoke Winstons, now I roll my own with pipe tobaccos that do not contain it. Winstons did not used to have it a while back, I have known of this intolerance for almost twenty years. Way before I did much studying on the subject. Lots of people gave up smoking when they started putting it in cigarettes I guess because they could not tolerate it...it bothers your ability to take in oxygen or something.

I have no problem with organic vanilla, even though there is a similar chemistry in it. I am pretty intolerant to milk and to bananas, that has similar chemistry, but both contain lectins or active form of albumin which does a similar thing with permeation in the gut which leads to swelling of the gut almost like how it effects the skin and lung tissue.

A majority of people can break this chemistry down, but about thirty some percent of people can have some problems with it and about ten percent have major problems with it. It depends on the amount of some specific enzymes you make that determines whether or how much you have problems with it. It would be metabolic, not allergy, but it can cause great harm to some people. The people who are having problems with vaping are probably having problems with the PG because the symptoms match what I could probably experience if I would have kept vaping. Before I vaped, I knew of my reactions to PG. Most people do not know, they just do not like double acting vanilla and flavorings created from PG

a reply to: rickymouse

That is the number one ingredient so glad you discovered your intolerance before it did any permanent damage. When I used the smaller and cheaper vape pen, I begin to feel as if I was getting a chest cold. Shortness of breath and more like a pleurisy and I stopped using any vape system. The larger system I used of course had a bigger battery and heating element which I think helped.

I dont advocate the use of vape products as there is still too many unknowns. This is a good reason for everyone to avoid them but I have met so many who have quit cigarettes and eventually left vaping behind too. Hopefully they can isolate exactly what's going wrong and perhaps regulate smartly.

Vaping inherently deposits thermally aerosolized chemicals and compounds into the lungs.

As if smog and chemtrails weren't bad enough.

i want to smoke, i like to smoke, i will continue to smoke. some things may not be 'good for' me. so what? i never vaped. struck me as silly.

Now ppl are even vaping vitamins, go figure.

Wonder will the 'mystery' illnesses all remain a sealed mystery?

It's a no brainer the thermal burn to the lungs stimulates cancer cells (proven) that likely readily metastasize to the rest of body since the circulatory system is right there, through the blood.

A hypothetical letter to the Governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts: [aka: The Peoples Republic of Massachusetts]

Deat Sir:

Thank you for considering the health of all the peoples of your state in outlawing the sale of all e cigarette products
because a few got sick and maybe even died from them - This is a big maybe as no cause and effect proof yet exists
- so why gamble? Destroy an entire industry that produces ' a known to be safer product than cigarettes' because a few
people may have gotten sick and died from it even though it is known that probably the Cannabis oils and illegal use are
the main cause - And of course your 'progressive state' that makes cannabis legal could not stand to blame cannabis.

Dear Sir - What have you been smoking?

Dear Sir - Are you considering the number of people dying in your state today and everyday from cigarettes
- And are you considering the number of ex cigarette smokers who will now die of lung cancer because you drove them back to cigarettes?

Dear Sir - You are gulity of murder and should be held accountable for every death caused by your ban on vape products
and the resultant resurgence of cigarette smoking.

Dear Sir maybe its time for you to come down off your liberal marijuana cloud and get straight
- You are responsible for what you are doing and the people who will be dying becuase of your actions

originally posted by: tulsi
Now ppl are even vaping vitamins, go figure.

Wonder will the 'mystery' illnesses all remain a sealed mystery?

It's a no brainer the thermal burn to the lungs stimulates cancer cells (proven) that likely readily metastasize to the rest of body since the circulatory system is right there, through the blood.

Hmmm. Vaping vitamins does not sound wise, the lungs do not have proper enzymes to process the vitamins so they can be used properly. B12 in the right form can be taken sublingually, so can some other B vitamins, but the enzymes in your saliva can help to properly bring those into the bloodstream.

yea id be worried what the high temps due to the vits and the carrier oils etc used; I mean there could be a chemical reaction there before it even hits the lungs then its a poison that's absorbed direct into the bloodstream thru the lungs instead.

While it is widely known that many vape marijuana extract, essentially hash oil and most can buy a vaporizer that is suitable at their local convenient store, not many know some use vaporizers for meth also. It is not nearly has common but they are out there.

As far as vaping nicotine, it seems to be far safer than smoking cigarettes. My best guess is cigarette companies are pushing for the vaporizer ban because many are giving up cigs for vaporizers.

originally posted by: contextual
It's pretty simple, don't use CBD or THC additives as they're the only ones doing any damage.

incorrect.

vitamin e they use to hold flavoring.


you derplord.

if I was just vaporizing (as vape implies) that might be healthier who doesn't like vicks in a steam vaporizer during severe cold/flu in frigid winter's dry air?

unfortunately most vape product actually combust dry at extreme high temps and even if its non-nicotine there may be tar-like carcinogens formed that are instantaneously deposited in the lungs; afterall what is that huge cloud of smoke!?

it seems like with the Philip moris cig genre, officials drag their feet slowly in identifying the substance perhaps to allow corps time to make their profits, before pulling the rug from underneath with tighter regulations and lawsuits

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

The CDC as much as confirmed (initially) that in the majority of cases THC or VIT-E oil was used, in cases where it couldnt be confirmed it was most likely that the teens involved were not going to incriminate themselves.

So yeah, I'd be pretty sure that its some stupid additives that are the cause of all the drama as its almost impossible to completely screw up a batch of juice if you are using the usual ingredients (PG/VG/Nicotine/Flavor), even in the roughest un-hygenic kitchen (I made my own for a long, long time).

Except from a few smaller independent studies here and there, there has been little research. And the data for the majority of studies actually study "nicotine" Vapor or "unflavored" juice and do not take into consideration other factors e.g. Additives, Zero Nicotine vaping (which a large number of people also do) varying PG/VG ratio's etc ....

The only large scale healthcare study that I know of that focuses on the actual health aspect and does not veer into self-moralizing "think of the children" territory, is the UK's NHS, who actually endorse them as a "safer alternative" on their website (and a nice video).

Hats off to them for common sense.

a reply to: tulsi

They don't combust but they can char with alot of heat 0 that "smoke" however is not smoke, its vaporized PG/VG, basically PG/VG steam. It's pretty much exactly the same stuff that has been used in smoke machines at discos for decades.

Do you think your water is burning when you can see steam from a kettle ?

If there is any "combustion" it is rarely the juice itself, and rather the cotton used as a wicking material.

And trust me, after one dry hit you are definitely unlikely to take another anytime soon (unless your taste buds and lungs are already completely outta whack).

And there lies the difference between smoking and vaporizing - combustion.

Oh and plenty of models do have temperature control which cuts off the current before the cotton gets a chance to burn.

Does anyone here listen or read the news regularly

I do - And it is obvious this so called epidemic was designed and programmed to suit an agenda.

Right from the beginning the anti tobacco fanatics could not stand vaping - especially when it was shown to be a safer form
of nicotine and had little, if any carcinogens in the vape smoke - vaping was first recommended to me by a doctor/dentist
who specialized in diseases of the mouth - He said vaping is better than smoking because there are no carcinogens in it.

As the vaping industry has been booming in recent years the anti tobacco control freaks who it would not surprise me to find
had relatives who were Prohibitionists a 100 years ago who could not stand alcohol - I think this may be an undiagnosed
genetic disease that causes so called 'do gooders' to exert control over people supposedly for their own good - And inevitably do more harm than good.

So as the news unfolded over the last few years, and as no significant provable harm could be blamed on vaping
except that 'Nicotine is an addictive chemical' - All legitimate vape manufactrurres are required to warn the consumer
of this - And so they had something - Supposedly underage minors were becoming overnight addicts ????

And yes the product should not have been sold to minors -But then again how many minors manage to get their hands
on alcohol and marijuana as well as other drugs?

But this wasn't impressing enough people - they still had a relatively minor drug, compared to alcohol and other legal
and illegal substances - And all the news last year kept harping on the epidemic of vape use among underage people.

NOW THEY NEEDED A DISEASE - As they were getting nowhere with their anti nicotine agenda.

And low and behold they found one - Or did they create one

If I take every minor who checks into a hospitable emergency room with breathing problems and ask them if they
have been vaping - A certain percentage will say yes - That's all the 'proof' they needed - vaping causes disease ?!?!

The beginning of the big lie - Now if you get sick, especially if it has to do with the lungs, every doctor in the country
is instructed to ask if you have been vaping - This is so they can build a case against vaping without any 'cause and effect'
- The big lie !!!!

I read an online book by a lawyer who swore he did not work fo big tobacco who said they did this with cigarettes
many years ago - even though he showed some evidence of twisted statistics to suit the agenda I did not believe it.

But as I'm living through them using the big lie to demonize vaping, I really don't know - When your dealing psychopathical
control freaks with an agenda - The truth is always obscured to suit the agenda





“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.”
― Abraham Lincoln

a reply to: rickymouse

I do know that some people are allergic and have reactions to PG.

Its much like any allergy, once you know about it, stay away.

I have never once seen the symtoms of PG sensitivity to include black splodges on the lungs or pneumonia type illnesses.

Rashes, hives, itchiness, upper tract irritation, coughing etc ... are the normal PG allergy symtoms that folk get.

You can substitute PG for Vodka (5% or thereabouts) and go with plain VG if you want to vape without it. Not as much throat hit and much more muted flavor, but it works.

But back to basics again - why all of a sudden (last couple of months), and all only located only in the USA ? And with the vast majority of cases it seems having a THC / Vitamin Oil additives and the likes.. it would seem more likely that this is the primary root cause and not your basic e-juice that we've been using for years.

The introduction of Nic Salts (perhaps bad quality?) in the past year or so for use in Pod Systems is one thing that I had considered a possibility, but again .... only in the USA ?

It's making waves over in the UK now.
Apparently lipoid pneumonia is a condition where liquid fats are deposited in the lungs, reducing capacity and causing infection.

www.theguardian.com...

The above article hints that the regular Pg VG blends could be at fault.

I do wonder if it's restricted to those straight to lung cloud vapes though.

I still think I'm healthier vaping than smoking, I have to say.

a reply to: SprocketUK

There are sevetal important issues here:

1. Withiout the establishment of a provable cause and effect - It is obvious that the anti-tobacco zealots are pushing
their agenda - hunting for a disease to blame on tobacco as the past ten years have shown vaping to be less harmful
than smoked tobacco.

2. As our great Witch Hunter and Chief none other than Donald Trump would say - This is a 'Witch Hunt'!
As he himself falls prey to black magicians and outlaws flavored vape products in the USA - This while the
witch hunters begin impeachment.

3. When you consider the huge number, in fact millions, of people vaping - The amount of people getting
sick and even fewer numbers dying, is really quite small - even if there is some correlation with vaping.
How many people get sick and some die from allergic reactions to foods they have eaten?

4. Nothing is completely safe - All legitimate manufacturers of vape products in the USA are required to warn consumers
'Nicotine is an addictive chemical' - and some if not all brands also state 'no tobacco product is safe'

5. And most important [from the Guardian article you linked to]:

"“Smoking causes 200 premature deaths in England every day, but vaping has helped hundreds of thousands of smokers quit tobacco,” Newton said. “The evidence remains clear that vaping isn’t risk-free but it is far less harmful than smoking. It would be tragic if smokers who could quit with the help of e-cigarettes did not do so because of false fears about their safety.”