A possible palatable way for having universal basic income

I'm reading an article on how Central Bankers are beginning to think current actions by reserve banks are not working:

"Central bankers are acknowledging that they are out of ammunition. Mark Carney, the soon-to-be-retiring head of the Bank of England, said in a speech at the annual meeting of central bankers in August in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, “In the longer-term, we need to change the game.” The same point was made by Philipp Hildebrand, former head of the Swiss National Bank, in an August 2019 interview with Bloomberg. “Really there is little if any ammunition left,” he said. “More of the same in terms of monetary policy is unlikely to be an appropriate response if we get into a recession or sharp downturn.”

From this article: Desperate Central Bankers Grab for More Power

In the article there's a part where they talk about "Helicopter Money". If you are not familiar with HM here's a wiki link:

Helicopter Money (HM)

So in the article it makes this statement: "But over $15 trillion in bonds are now trading globally at negative interest rates, yet this radical maneuver has not been shown to measurably improve economic performance. In fact new research shows that negative interest rates from central banks, rather than increasing spending, stopping deflation, and stimulating the economy as they were expected to do, may be having the opposite effects. "

So if the reserve banks have a charter "to achieve its employment and inflation objectives" how else can it do it?

The article then goes on to say, "The goal, according to Hildebrand, is to go “direct with money to consumers and companies in order to enliven consumption,” putting spending money directly into consumers’ pockets. It sounds a lot like “helicopter money,” but he was not actually talking about raining money down on the people."

But then the article goes to argue, "In short, Hildebrand and co-authors are not talking about central banks giving up their ivory tower independence to work with legislators in coordinating fiscal and monetary policy. Rather, central bankers would be acquiring even more power, by giving themselves a new pot of free money that they could deploy as they saw fit in the service of “government objectives.”"

So I was thinking what would be a good mechanism for having helicopter money but in way that would be politically acceptable. So here's what I've come up with. Every year, when individuals file their taxes, say there is some percentage, I don't know what would be a good amount, say 50% to start and then dial it back if needed. So say we have a 50% number, then whatever the amount of taxes that are due to the Federal Government, say a family owes $15000, then 50% of it would be paid by the Federal Reserve which would result in the family getting back $7500.00. Think of it as an "Inflation Dividend" being paid by the Federal Reserve.

This way hard working American get to keep more of their hard earned dollars. And the economy can be stimulate to achieve target inflation rates by using this new HM or UBI type mechanism. Only people who pay actually pay taxes will qualify which will eliminate a lot of abuse. The big criticism of UBI is everyone hates doling out freebies. So with this mechanism there are no freebies. Benefits are only paid to hard working tax paying Amerikans!

The net goal is to put more money back into the economy. This way the Federal Reserve will have a new tool for achieving target inflation rates and percentage of people actually employed. Giving tax breaks to billionaires has been proven to do nothing since most billionaires just keep the money in their pockets.

a reply to: dfnj2015

You can easily prove your idea by donating 70% of your
own money to your neighbors.

Until you do that, your idea is a joke.

The way to provide the pie in the sky universal income is to simply tax automation devices the same they currently tax human employees. Automation processes will still pay for themselves by out producing humans, 24-7 ,so that's the best way.

Who decides what the basic income will be ? We both know it will never be "universa". There will always be the gaves and the have nots. Is a doctor suppose to get less than the janitor or the same ?

Are the Reps and Sens going to decide? They are the best and brightest you know so you think they will give themselves less?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Universal Income is Foolish.

If "automation" is a reason, lower retirement age to 50 and let the "youth" have the job.

originally posted by: burntheships
a reply to: dfnj2015
You can easily prove your idea by donating 70% of your
own money to your neighbors.
Until you do that, your idea is a joke.

I appreciate your confidence. But the American economy is like the Titanic. It's a big ship with a small rudder. I can assure you if I gave 100% of my money to my neighbor it would do absolutely NOTHING to turn the ship!

a reply to: infolurker

Did you even read the OP? I was not proposing simple UBI which your criticism seem to be suggesting.

The post was more about what tools does the reserve banks have to stimulate the economy when nothing traditional is no longer working.

What tools do you think the Fed should use?

originally posted by: dfnj2015
The net goal is to put more money back into the economy. This way the Federal Reserve will have a new tool for achieving target inflation rates and percentage of people actually employed. Giving tax breaks to billionaires has been proven to do nothing since most billionaires just keep the money in their pockets.

Wouldn't simply doling out a lot of money to everybody eventually just result in the billionaires funneling that extra money into their pockets?

There will always be a disparity of wealth. Some rich people give away a whole lot of their money, some don't. It's hard to legislate against someone's personal philosophy of wealth. This is particularly difficult when society in general sees accumulating wealth as a very positive thing and a social system evolves among the very rich to compete to see who can accumulate the most.

a reply to: dfnj2015

This universal basic income is total socialist bulloney…
Socialism does not work it is something bored into the
minds of the current population in colleges today.A very
good example of a socialist type country is Venezuela.
Many countries are going back to gold standards and about
to ditch the U.S. dollar.
I would never put any faith in the Federal Reserve at all.I also
am very skeptical about keeping money in the banking system
as well.I have already cleaned out my deposit box and handed
in the keys.
I will now post a prediction of what I have heard and believe
could be in our very near future...a depression,worse then the
crash of 1929!

a reply to: dfnj2015

I can't take any plan seriously until somebody puts an actual number down to say exactly what a universal basic income is.
Same thing with a living wage.

All that we get is a vague description.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: burntheships
a reply to: dfnj2015
You can easily prove your idea by donating 70% of your
own money to your neighbors.
Until you do that, your idea is a joke.

I appreciate your confidence. But the American economy is like the Titanic. It's a big ship with a small rudder. I can assure you if I gave 100% of my money to my neighbor it would do absolutely NOTHING to turn the ship!

The fact is no one is stopping people from donating their wealth to charities and other worthwhile organizations now. The basic problem with your idea from my perspective is that your ideology is inflicted upon me. If you want to have agreement then stop trying to force others to do what you won’t do yourself.

a reply to: Blue Shift

I don't disagree with the first part of your post.

There was nothing in my post about rich people giving away anything.

Rich people may be competing but I think you are naive to think we have many free-markets left in this country. Otherwise, if we did have free-markets the reserve banks would not have to have negative interest rates:

"But over $15 trillion in bonds are now trading globally at negative interest rates, yet this radical maneuver has not been shown to measurably improve economic performance. In fact new research shows that negative interest rates from central banks, rather than increasing spending, stopping deflation, and stimulating the economy as they were expected to do, may be having the opposite effects. "

a reply to: dfnj2015

Two words..

Ask Finland

www.helsinki.fi...

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: burntheships
a reply to: dfnj2015
You can easily prove your idea by donating 70% of your
own money to your neighbors.
Until you do that, your idea is a joke.

I appreciate your confidence. But the American economy is like the Titanic. It's a big ship with a small rudder. I can assure you if I gave 100% of my money to my neighbor it would do absolutely NOTHING to turn the ship!

The fact is no one is stopping people from donating their wealth to charities and other worthwhile organizations now. The basic problem with your idea from my perspective is that your ideology is inflicted upon me. If you want to have agreement then stop trying to force others to do what you won’t do yourself.

Did you even read the post? I was talking about giving people a tax break. It wasn't coming out your pocket or rich people's pockets.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Stop issuing bonds... what is the use.

Just have the fed type in a few trillion and inflate the money supply further. That is what we are really doing anyway. Negative bond yields are not a bad thing when the Federal Reserve Corporation is buying them anyway. It is actually ingenious.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: dfnj2015

Two words..

Ask Finland

www.helsinki.fi...

You people do not understand the meaning of English sentences. I was proposing a mechanism LIKE ubi but in the form of a tax cut.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: dfnj2015

Universal Income is Foolish.

If "automation" is a reason, lower retirement age to 50 and let the "youth" have the job.

Or just use automation to meet basic needs in a decentralized fashion.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

UBI is just propping up the source of so many problems for so many generations. Then amping it up to the nth degree. This whole idea that money creates direct actions and solutions is silly.

Have a problem? Throw money at it!

Dont.. Like.. Try to actually come up with novel systems, devices, and processes that directly handle it. Certainly dont look to ever-advancing technology!

Just prop up that good ol paradigm, especially if one can convince themselves they are doing the opposite. Two birds with one stone there.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: dfnj2015

I can't take any plan seriously until somebody puts an actual number down to say exactly what a universal basic income is.
Same thing with a living wage.

All that we get is a vague description.

I give up. This is impossible. People simply do not understand the banking system.

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes its laws". Mater Amschel Rothschild

a reply to: dfnj2015

You people do not understand the meaning of English sentences. I was proposing a mechanism LIKE ubi but in the form of a tax cut.

You people? You mean people that understand math, taxes, and that silly scenarios don't equate in the real world???

Oh and just to add, DO YOU even understand what Universal Basic income is??? I think not.

Only people who pay actually pay taxes will qualify which will eliminate a lot of abuse.

Here's a hint, what you are proposing is not universal basic income...

whatis.techtarget.com...

Universal basic income (UBI) is a model for providing all citizens of a country or other geographic area with a given sum of money, regardless of their income, resources or employment status. The purpose of the UBI is to prevent or reduce poverty and increase equality among citizens.

I give up. This is impossible. People simply do not understand the banking system.

You read my mind....

originally posted by: dfnj2015


I give up. This is impossible. People simply do not understand the banking system.

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes its laws". Mater Amschel Rothschild

Sure we understand.

But your proposal, which I might ask how did you come up
with this all on your own, or is this a talking point
from a subversive email, is a scheme.

It is a wealth redistribution scheme that you
propose be put into federal law, by way of
more taxation.

The U.S. taxpayers are already over taxed.

We are tired of wealth redistribution schemes,
such as Obamacare. Granted, some tax money
is used for infrastructure, border security,
national security.

But there is enough tax money out there in frivolous
programs and studies that benefit no one, take
that money, end those studies and re purpose
those funds. We are tired of the World Bank
and the IMF looking for inroads into the business
of controlling third world countries too.

Get out of our pocketbooks, leave us alone.