Transcript released - WH - No quid pro quo

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: MrRCflying

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: MrRCflying

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Wayfarer

No. Biden specifically stated he told the Ukrainian government that they had six hours (when he was scheduled to depart) to fire the prosecutor if they wanted the $1 billion. He stated it himself in a tone that indicated pride in the fact that he had made the Ukraine fire the prosecutor.

I have to run soon, but I'll try to find a video.

Now, some have said that this was because the prosecutor was dirty; I do not know. But that does not change the fact that Biden has admitted openly to threatening to withhold aid to Ukraine unless a specific prosecutor was fired.

TheRedneck

Oh I see, the confusion you're expressing is the difference between coercing a foreign official into doing something beneficial to the country, vs coercing a foreign official into helping you eliminate your political rivals.

Or... Forcing a foreign official into doing something beneficial for his and his son's wallets, vs a chat about corruption of a former VP and his son, swindling millions.

That's the rub though. Biden got the prosecutor fired, and in essence made his son's life more tenuous since the guy running the company Biden's son was working for was himself pretty corrupt and being protected by the prosecutor Biden got fired. In essence, Biden acted against his family in the best interest of the country (though of course you and many others won't see it that way) by eliminating a prosecutor who was protecting his son's boss in favor of putting a prosecutor who was actually going to start going after corruption.

Funny... then why was the investigation dropped as soon as he was fired and the new guy put in?

Because that was a lie that has been propagated, and keeps being propagated just as you are doing now. The article I linked mentioned that obviously.


"In fact, Kasko and Kaleniuk noted, Shokin (the prosecutor) had undermined efforts to investigate the company (that Biden's son worked for) and its owner."

Just checked a few links. Investigation was dropped, nothing ongoing, no plans to re-open.

Oops...

Maybe the guy was trying to "undermine" it, but up until he was fired there was an open investigation.

a reply to: Wayfarer

If Trump wanted Biden gone, all he needed to do was to give Biden a Microphone and a stage.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

false stories of the dni resigning ect...

interesting day

And the fake news headlines are out there forever.

Just like they did to Romney, only he is such a limp
minded idiot he went back to them like dog to vomit.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Wayfarer

If Trump wanted Biden gone, all he needed to do was to give Biden a Microphone and a stage.

Absolutely! Both totally legal and immensely more effective. (clearly not a Biden fan)

Agree with Ukranian President, better to speak directly in front of all than rely on words transcribed via phone conversations.

Trump and Zelensky meet and answer press questions LIVE at UN after release of phone conversation.

a reply to: Wayfarer

except that the EU and various other orginizations thought her conviction was shady as hell and it was basically over turned with a pardon and she ran for election in 2015.......... en.wikipedia.org...

The "gas case" trial was viewed by many European and American organizations as a politically charged persecution that violates the law.[364][365][366][367][368][369] The European Union and multiple international organizations see the conviction as "justice being applied selectively under political motivation."[370] In June 2012, the European Parliament established a special monitoring mission to Ukraine, conducted by former European Parliament President Pat Cox and former Polish President Aleksander Kwaśniewski. Both politicians observed trials, repeatedly visited Tymoshenko in custody and conducted meetings with Ukraine's authorities regarding her release.[371] The European Union shelved the European Union Association Agreement and Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement with the Ukrainian government over the issue.[343][372][373][367][372] On 30 April 2013, the European Court of Human Rights issued a judgment[374] asserting that "Ms. Tymoshenko's pre-trial detention had been arbitrary; that the lawfulness of her detention had not been properly reviewed; and, that she had no possibility to seek compensation for her unlawful deprivation of liberty." Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) has adopting a resolution on "Keeping political and criminal responsibility separate" in which former Prime Minister of Ukraine Yulia Tymoshenko is recognized as a political prisoner.[375] The United States Senate passed two resolutions calling for the release from prison of former prime minister Tymoshenko. The most recent, presented in the Senate in June 2013, called for Tymoshenko's release in light of the recent European Court of Human Rights ruling, and was adopted on 18 November 2013.[376][377][378] An earlier resolution, passed in 2012, condemned the politically motivated prosecution and imprisonment of former Prime Minister of Ukraine Yulia Tymoshenko.[379] On 2 October 2013, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) adopted a resolution calling for the immediate release of Tymoshenko and, two days later, Pat Cox and Aleksander Kwaśniewski, representatives of the European Parliament mission, handed president Yanukovych a petition to pardon Tymoshenko.[380][381] In December 2012, the united opposition nominated her and later in June 2013 confirmed her as its candidate in the 2015 Ukrainian presidential election

oh and then she got to run for president after the alleged politically motivated prosecution.......yeah the new guy sure cleared that up

en.wikipedia.org... or did you mean the CEO of the company who was also cleared of charges again? yeah that new guy doing an amazing job cleaning up after the one biden got fired.........

He served in the first cabinet and the second cabinet[citation needed] of Mykola Azarov under President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych. In 2002, he co-founded the largest independent oil and natural gas company Burisma Holdings with Ukrainian businessman Mykola Lisin [uk].[4][5] Thourgh his sole ownership of Cyprus-registered Burisma Holdings, he owns the Ukrainian gas and oil producers Aldea, Pari, Esko-Pivnich, and the First Ukrainian Petroleum Company and the investment group Brociti Investments.[6][7][8][9][10][11][excessive citations] At the end of 2014, Zlochevsky fled Ukraine amid allegations of unlawful self enrichment and legalization of funds (Article 368-2, Criminal Code of Ukraine) during his tenure in public office.[12] At the end of 2016 the Central Criminal Court in London released $23 million that were blocked on accounts of Zlochevsky.[12] As the Serious Fraud Office press service explained, the reason why the funds were released was due to the fact that it never obtained necessary evidences.[12] According to another ran-away former Ukrainian parliamentary Oleksandr Onyshchenko, Zlochevsky might have paid some money to close investigations against him in Ukraine.[13] Zlochevsky returned to Ukraine in February 2018 after investigations into his Burisma Holdings had been completed in December 2017 with no charges filed against him.[9][14] On April 18, 2018, recordings of conversations between President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko and Zlochevsky were released which implicated him in graft.[3][15][16] On June 15, 2018, after the Solomyansky District Court in Kyiv had annulled the ruling of the Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor’s Office (SAP) to close a criminal proceeding against him in 2017, Zlochevsky was accused of having illegally issued, while he was Ecology Minister in 2010–2012, oil and gas licenses to the companies that belonged to him.[17].

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Agit8dChop

It sure looks like quid pro quo.

Trump had no understanding of the limitations of the office. He thought being president meant freedom to be lawless.

I sure hope Trump doesn't get impeached. I still prefer Trump over Pence.

You are literally mentally diseased if you truly believe any of this.

Where the hell is the quid pro quo - you are hallucinating in front of everyone. Point it out - give me the lines in that transcript.

What laws has he broken?

You are so mentally screwed you are posting like a schizophrenic.

a reply to: Wayfarer

im aware of that you implied that he had already done so hence why i asked which enemies WERE eliminated not alleged attempts ,and biden was tanking in the polls for what it was worth(dotn give them too much faith ) even before this issue dropped w warren going up to the likely canidate spot

www.politico.com... its almost as if they dont even remeber the stories that broke a few years ago.....

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found. A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

Is this seriously the Transcription of the phone call that set the country on fire the last few days?

President Trump talking in a manner and saying pretty much the same things he says on national TV or Twitter every day? And a Ukrainian president thanking the president for the call of congradulations.

Adam Schiff must watch a lot of bad movies if he thinks this conversation sounds like a mob like shake down. That or he thinks the American people are stupid.

But than again maybe he's right; this situation doesn't make Americans look all that good; we can't be that smart since we keep letting this happen over and over again.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: dfnj2015
please point out where specifically?

Ahhh the whole transcript?

It basically goes like this:

T:Let me tell you how important American support is. It is so important you would have no help without it. Europe doesn't care about you, Germany especially, that Angela does nothing for you.

Z:Oh yes, yes, I know. The cooperation will continue and we will buy Javelins from you.

T: Excellent! While we're talking about how important I am for you, let me ask you a favor. You know Biden?

I noticed a lot of people seem to over look that before this phone call Trump ordered a halt to aid money to Ukraine, which he only released as this scandal blew up.

originally posted by: Pyle
I noticed a lot of people seem to over look that before this phone call Trump ordered a halt to aid money to Ukraine, which he only released as this scandal blew up.

With an extra $140 million that Mnuchin couldn't explain in an interview with Chuck Todd three days ago.

a reply to: Oraculi

No quid pro quo maga build the wall! *Sarcasm*

originally posted by: Oraculi

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: dfnj2015
please point out where specifically?

Ahhh the whole transcript?

It basically goes like this:

T:Let me tell you how important American support is. It is so important you would have no help without it. Europe doesn't care about you, Germany especially, that Angela does nothing for you.

Z:Oh yes, yes, I know. The cooperation will continue and we will buy Javelins from you.

T: Excellent! While we're talking about how important I am for you, let me ask you a favor. You know Biden?

So your postulation is that in a phone call between two world leaders; said leaders do not normally nor are expected to speak about how important their respective countries are to each other? And that speaking about how important one's country is to the other is so outside the norm that it can only be interpreted as the beginnings of a bribe?

originally posted by: DanDanDat

originally posted by: Oraculi

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: dfnj2015
please point out where specifically?

Ahhh the whole transcript?

It basically goes like this:

T:Let me tell you how important American support is. It is so important you would have no help without it. Europe doesn't care about you, Germany especially, that Angela does nothing for you.

Z:Oh yes, yes, I know. The cooperation will continue and we will buy Javelins from you.

T: Excellent! While we're talking about how important I am for you, let me ask you a favor. You know Biden?

So your postulation is that in a phone call between two world leaders; said leaders do not normally nor are expected to speak about how important their respective countries are to each other? And that speaking about how important one's country is to the other is so outside the norm that it can only be interpreted as the beginnings of a bribe?

When you order aid withheld that was Constitutionally appropriated by the Congress and then approved and passed, and THEN you make that phone call.

That's a whole different beast isn't it?

Add to that that asking for help in our elections from a foreign country is also illegal.

And the fact that Barr is now implicated in this AND also that a personal lawyer -- Giuliani -- was instructed to conduct state matters outside of the purview of normal presidential record keeping, and then that lawyer lied about it on TV that it was just his decision and he wasn't told to when we now clearly see he was?

Yeah, it's a nothingburger.

a reply to: Oraculi


There is nothing in the Transcript about aid withheld or about help in our elections.

so yeah, it's a nothingburger.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Wayfarer

As I was mentioning to Shooterbrody, there seems to be at least another transcript, if not a couple, that are still unreleased. Perhaps at some point in the future you and I will get to view those to make a determination further.

There are literally thousands of transcripts. Every call made between Trump and any other foreign dignitary has one.

I find it strange that this fact was not brought up previously. The DNC talking points are that this issue is literally death to the Republic! So, if that is true, why were they not clamoring for 2, 3, 47 transcripts initially? Why demand the "least damning" one and wait for it to be a fail before mentioning there are more?

Is the DNC that clueless?

TheRedneck

The whistleblower mentioned multiple 'acts'. The other transcripts I'm referring to are those containing those other 'acts' if they were calls/discussions (which is what I am assuming they were).

The Trump administration is stonewalling by not releasing the others. They have selectively released just this one, as I mentioned already, because prescriptively its the least damning.

Wasn't the media all about this particular phone call yesterday? This was the only one I heard about. But the sensible side of me knows there will never be enough for the left. They will keep trying until Trump is dead. I suspect his departure from office in 2024 won't stop the attacks.

BAMN. Amirite?

originally posted by: CraftyArrow
a reply to: Oraculi


There is nothing in the Transcript about aid withheld or about help in our elections.

so yeah, it's a nothingburger.

Dear, things are not as simple as just this transcript. There is now an impeachment inquiry. What does that mean?

It means that all records will be subpoenaed, meaning under the penalty of the law. That means all eight phone transcripts will be available to the investigators, and the transcripts of William Barr conversations and the Giuliani conversations. And all instructions on the aid being withheld and who made that decision. And who asked Giuliani to conduct state matters, etc...

And if any of this is refused, the penalty of the law will be applied for obstruction of justice.

And that's if you just want to focus on that part and disregard that help in US elections was solicited from a foreign government, which itself is illegal.

a reply to: Oraculi

So you're saying that they need to start impeaching Trump until they find something he can be guilty of?