What You Don't Want to Accept, We may be All Alone

originally posted by: sine.nomine

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: sine.nomine
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

How special do you think you are?

Well to answer your question, I have major self esteem issues. So to state the obvious, I probably don't consider myself all that special... lol.

But more to the point, I'm a little confused on what your stand is on the issue, since your reply was extremely vague... perhaps you could elaborate?

That's fair enough.

I was saying it's naive to assume we're alone.

I totally agree... but imo, the question is whether the universe is what we think it is.

If it is what science tells it is, then yes, obviously we can't possibly be alone and there's an abundance of life out there. But then again, maybe its all an illusion (for lack of a better word) and we are actually just living in a simulation from another reality.

Its all just conjecture either way you look at it... no one really knows.

originally posted by: sine.nomine
Here's my thing... I have 100% evidence of life existing in the universe. It's earth. The cosmos are so crazy infinite past this little rock. It's insanely naive to think we're alone.

I think naive is a nice way of putting it. I prefer arrogant. Yes, it’s simply arrogant to believe we are alone in the multiverse.

Unless you believe this is all a simulation... The Matrix. I don’t buy that theory.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: sine.nomine

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: sine.nomine
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

How special do you think you are?

Well to answer your question, I have major self esteem issues. So to state the obvious, I probably don't consider myself all that special... lol.

But more to the point, I'm a little confused on what your stand is on the issue, since your reply was extremely vague... perhaps you could elaborate?

That's fair enough.

I was saying it's naive to assume we're alone.

I totally agree... but imo, the question is whether the universe is what we think it is.

If it is what science tells it is, then yes, obviously we can't possibly be alone and there's an abundance of life out there. But then again, maybe its all an illusion (for lack of a better word) and we are actually just living in a simulation from another reality.

Its all just conjecture either way you look at it... no one really knows.

I get ya, but what's more likely?

originally posted by: sine.nomine

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: sine.nomine

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: sine.nomine
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

How special do you think you are?

Well to answer your question, I have major self esteem issues. So to state the obvious, I probably don't consider myself all that special... lol.

But more to the point, I'm a little confused on what your stand is on the issue, since your reply was extremely vague... perhaps you could elaborate?

That's fair enough.

I was saying it's naive to assume we're alone.

I totally agree... but imo, the question is whether the universe is what we think it is.

If it is what science tells it is, then yes, obviously we can't possibly be alone and there's an abundance of life out there. But then again, maybe its all an illusion (for lack of a better word) and we are actually just living in a simulation from another reality.

Its all just conjecture either way you look at it... no one really knows.

I get ya, but what's more likely?

These days I'm not all that interested in coming to any egotistical based conclusions... I'd rather just sit on the sidelines and admit that I have absolutely no idea, one way or the other.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: sine.nomine

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: sine.nomine

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: sine.nomine
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

How special do you think you are?

Well to answer your question, I have major self esteem issues. So to state the obvious, I probably don't consider myself all that special... lol.

But more to the point, I'm a little confused on what your stand is on the issue, since your reply was extremely vague... perhaps you could elaborate?

That's fair enough.

I was saying it's naive to assume we're alone.

I totally agree... but imo, the question is whether the universe is what we think it is.

If it is what science tells it is, then yes, obviously we can't possibly be alone and there's an abundance of life out there. But then again, maybe its all an illusion (for lack of a better word) and we are actually just living in a simulation from another reality.

Its all just conjecture either way you look at it... no one really knows.

I get ya, but what's more likely?

These days I'm not all that interested in coming to any egotistical based conclusions... I'd rather just sit on the sidelines and admit that I have absolutely no idea, one way or the other.

Haha ok. I'm gonna say the wachoski brothers hold very little water though when we're talking existential terms. 😊

a reply to: AlienView

The chance we exist at all is so mind boggling why not on other planets too!

What are the chances the first living cell capable of real life functions came into existence in the first place. If you take millions of years and trillions of bubbles eventually given enough tries something meaningful happened. We exist!! We are the proof!

It's like lottery math. If you buy enough tickets eventually one of the tickets will hit.

So the same thing is true with other planets in the Goldilocks zone. Given enough planets, that is lottery tickets, eventually a few are going to hit the lottery have some meaningful life.

originally posted by: Gothmog
The latest Drake's equation with all factors taken into effect shows we may well be alone in the universe.
I believe it.
The Laws of Probability in action and enforced.
UFOs are just that .
Unidentified Flying Objects . Until they are identified. (the term is UAP now)

From the beginning depending on how you choose the factors the Drake equation showed we are alone. When I first read the Drake equation they gave 3 estimates: conservative, moderate, liberal. The conservative estimate we were the only one. The moderate result in life every 20,000 light years. And the liberal estimate was the Universe is teaming with life.

I tend to think the Universe is teaming with life and planet Earth is like a wild life preserve under study.

I think crossing the galaxy is far harder than most people think. If there is no warp, slipstream or whatever method to travel faster than light then I doubt we will ever see visitors. As far as detecting life on other planets we have only just begun and are limited to the speed of light for visual and radio frequencies to get here. When those signals do get to us they are very very old.

Other civilizations could be rising and falling as I type but we wouldn't be able to detect them for another hundred thousand years. I have often wondered if dark matter is a requirement for life to form. Supposedly there is very little of it in our galaxy and approximately tens of tons of it in our solar system. Which make life in our galaxy rare while other galaxies are teaming with it. That is just me speculating since we still have no idea what the stuff is, however, we have learned some of its traits by observing other galaxies colliding.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: AlienView

The chance we exist at all is so mind boggling why not on other planets too!

What are the chances the first living cell capable of real life functions came into existence in the first place. If you take millions of years and trillions of bubbles eventually given enough tries something meaningful happened. We exist!! We are the proof!

It's like lottery math. If you buy enough tickets eventually one of the tickets will hit.

So the same thing is true with other planets in the Goldilocks zone. Given enough planets, that is lottery tickets, eventually a few are going to hit the lottery have some meaningful life.

You would think so - and you do think so.

BUT - The unknown here is, what are the odds, do you know what the odds are

Actually I don't think we do - Has anyone produced life in the laboratory from the elements that it is composed ?

And that would be a controller experiment - What about by random chance? Given planets similar to Earth, that
developed like Earth, just how often would life occur? One in ten, a thousnd, a million, or an infinitley rare
occurence? - This is unknown - As someone pointed out earlier, the Singualrity, and the new Quntum Computers now being
developed might allow better speculaiton.

But untill someone can show what sparks life into existence, it is pure speculation.

And the real arrogance here is the assumption that if it happened once, it must have happened many times.
That assumption is not science - It is bad science fiction- And as much as I love science fiction I'm burnt out on the bad
stuff -Write me a more believable story............

originally posted by: underwerks
Something is here.

Whether it's from outer space or not isn't the big part of the question to me.

I agree with you 100%

I don't want to know the "where", it doesn't matter to me.

I want to know that "what" or "who" part of the equation.

The rest will just work itself out if we can answer that part first.

originally posted by: sine.nomine
Here's my thing... I have 100% evidence of life existing in the universe. It's earth. The cosmos are so crazy infinite past this little rock. It's insanely naive to think we're alone.

You need to use the word 'insanely' more, it might add cred to your claim which is without evidence. Also you're being too vague. What do you mean by 'alone'?

Do you mean aliens should be coming here in person? Do you mean there are single-celled creatures out in space?

There's no reason for aliens to come here and we have nearly the most perfect quarantine imaginable. Time synch, cold, near vacuum, hard radiation, distance, fear, fear & surprise, ruthless efficiency, and fanatical devotion to the Pope.

Yet you invoke argument by intimidation. Go figure.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Gothmog
The latest Drake's equation with all factors taken into effect shows we may well be alone in the universe.
I believe it.
The Laws of Probability in action and enforced.
UFOs are just that .
Unidentified Flying Objects . Until they are identified. (the term is UAP now)

From the beginning depending on how you choose the factors the Drake equation showed we are alone. When I first read the Drake equation they gave 3 estimates: conservative, moderate, liberal. The conservative estimate we were the only one. The moderate result in life every 20,000 light years. And the liberal estimate was the Universe is teaming with life.

I tend to think the Universe is teaming with life and planet Earth is like a wild life preserve under study.

No , the original Drake's Equation was merely put forward as humor , only meant to show astronomy could use the Laws of Probability .It had very few factors .
And therein lies the issue. Too many folk put stock in the original one.
People like to dream and love their science fiction , but they need to wake up to reality ever now and then .

originally posted by: Maverick7

originally posted by: sine.nomine
Here's my thing... I have 100% evidence of life existing in the universe. It's earth. The cosmos are so crazy infinite past this little rock. It's insanely naive to think we're alone.

You need to use the word 'insanely' more, it might add cred to your claim which is without evidence. Also you're being too vague. What do you mean by 'alone'?

Do you mean aliens should be coming here in person? Do you mean there are single-celled creatures out in space?

There's no reason for aliens to come here and we have nearly the most perfect quarantine imaginable. Time synch, cold, near vacuum, hard radiation, distance, fear, fear & surprise, ruthless efficiency, and fanatical devotion to the Pope.

Yet you invoke argument by intimidation. Go figure.

What the hell are you on about? We're just as alien to anywhere else. Last I checked we haven't made contact anywhere. Sorry for using the word "insanely". My bad?

And yes, alien life could be single celled or highly intelligent. An asteroid striking earth and sending bacteria into space is incredibly likely alone.

Part 1

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Part 2

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a reply to: PilSungMtnMan

The problem I have with the Fermi paradox is that there are so many paths life can take to develop. Assuming interstellar travel as an inevitable part of development is kinda weird.

We don't even know how many civilizations have existed here on Earth.

Thousands of people have already discovered alien life coming here. Just not you yet.

I have seen craft and creatures myself, so I no longer need to wonder about it.

Sadly not everyone have witnessed non humans visiting, and for them, it's much easier and safer to just ignore the entire subject.

In fact yet again, most who have seen them will deny having seen them, so those who haven't seen them yet won't ruin their lives and get them fired from jobs for being crazy.

When you do, if ever see them close enough to know, keep it a secret so you can still retain friends, family, and jobs in good standing.

Trust me, I know.

With Our primitive senses, pitiful science, and constipated attitudes...we wouldn't recognize alien life or intelligence if it bit us in the ass.

Man kinds most notable advancement is in developing unlimited arrogance.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
Thousands of people have already discovered alien life coming here. Just not you yet.

I have seen craft and creatures myself, so I no longer need to wonder about it.

Sadly not everyone have witnessed non humans visiting, and for them, it's much easier and safer to just ignore the entire subject.

In fact yet again, most who have seen them will deny having seen them, so those who haven't seen them yet won't ruin their lives and get them fired from jobs for being crazy.

When you do, if ever see them close enough to know, keep it a secret so you can still retain friends, family, and jobs in good standing.

Trust me, I know.

WOW! That's great - wish I could see them too.

But excuse me today I'm your skeptic - PROVE IT! - Prove you've seen or had contact with anything but other Humans
or figments of your imagination.

This is a trial to establih the truth and I say 'hearsay' - You have no evidence of what you are saying.

And no I don't trust you - Why should I ?

a reply to: AlienView

It is kind of weird that our ability to see is pretty much based on what we know and recognize.

The other day my Mother was looking for a white envelope someone had given her at church. When she got home she couldn't find it. She emptied her purse three times, still no luck.

The next day I thought to look in the car, thinking there was the odd chance she had dropped it in the truck or walking away from the truck. I didn't find it.

On a hunch, I emptied the purse, put everything back into the purse without finding the envelope. Not any of it making sense, and I am one of those that obsesses over things that don't make sense, I decided to not dump the purse, but to take out the items one by one, I had picked up the envelope and had placed it on the bed, when I realized the problem. The envelope was dark blue.

She had just put the envelope in her purse. She didn't really pay attention to the color, and had told herself, out of habit and memory, that the envelope was white.

Both she and I was looking for a white envelope so the blue envelope, though seen and touched many times, did not register as the item we were looking for.

I think that same built in oddity of our mind and vision, may be preventing us from seeing what is right in front of our faces. We don't know what we don't know, and we often can't see what we are looking at.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Sure, I once lost a small diamond ring I won in a poker game, had it for many, many years, and it seemed to disappear off
my finger as I drowsed in front of my computer - practically tore my place apart tryijng to find it, might of even damaged my health doing this - It was gone - Finally accepted this and even thought aliens may have taken it off my finger while I slept in front of the computer - None the less I finally gave up and considered it lost.

Seven years later as I was cleanig my place the ring turns up under the edge of a box where I had some things stored
- I had checked the box and how the ring worked its way under the edge is open to speculation.

So goes it with almost all of the alien phenomena people keep claiming - Even UFOs, how manhy of them might be
caused by not understood optical phenomena.

And my thesis remains the same - To date no one has 'proven' the existenco of even one alien!