Judges rule Boris Proroguing Parliament is unlawful

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: ScepticScot

What's 'the current legal position' ?

Do you need to re-read the title of the thread?

No. The title of the thread is not the current legal position.

errr yeah actually it is, currently the legal position is that the decision to prorogue was unlawful.

Now sure that could change when it get to the Supreme Court and yeah you can disagree with it all you want but it does not change the legal position.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: ScepticScot

What's 'the current legal position' ?

Do you need to re-read the title of the thread?

No. The title of the thread is not the current legal position.

errr yeah actually it is, currently the legal position is that the decision to prorogue was unlawful.

Now sure that could change when it get to the Supreme Court and yeah you can disagree with it all you want but it does not change the legal position.

Er, it actually isn't.

The current legal position is that the Scottish Court of Sessions has ruled it unlawful and the High Court of England and Wales have ruled the case is not justicable.
Now the Supreme Court will make a decision.
As it stands there is no order to end the prorogation.

That's the current legal position. Two courts disagreeing with one another with arbitration pending.

So when is someone going to go round and knock on hypocrite John Major's door and arrest him?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: RexKramerPRT

The problem was that many flavours of Brexit were offered by various factions. I don't think it is unreasonable to put deal or no deal to the public so they can make an informed decision based on facts rather than fiction. If leave is as popular as is leavers say then there is nothing to fear of a confirmatory vote.

Where's the democracy in a re vote?

Do you think those who wished to leave dont know how to make an informed

decision? .......Patronising much?


Also patronising to think that only stupid leavers would change their minds I

personally think it would be the other way around......but hey! what do I know

just another stupid leaver.

I voted leaved on the proviso a deal would be easily negotiated. I didn't vote to leave with no deal. Get down off your high horse. Like I say, now people know what leaving is actually going to look like then why not see what the public decide?

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Britain voted to leave - correct

May's gov. performed the worst negotiations in the history of negotiating on purpose because they wanted to remain - correct

Johnson's gov. is forced to use unsightly tactics to suppress the traitorous remainers in parliament - correct

Remainers are playing a very dangerous game supporting their position. Today it is to remain in the EU... ... the next vote which is allowed to be ignored by parliament could be even more important. Freedoms, rights, liberties - once it effects remainers their story will be different.

It's no longer about leave or remain, it's about not ignoring democracy. Give an inch and they will take a mile. If the UK remains in the EU it won't be a victory for remainers. They will have been complicit in setting a precedent which is already creeping across Europe. The precedent of ignoring the people and carrying on regardless.

A very dangerous position to be arguing for.

I wish I could give you a 100 stars for this

Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: RexKramerPRT

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: RexKramerPRT

The problem was that many flavours of Brexit were offered by various factions. I don't think it is unreasonable to put deal or no deal to the public so they can make an informed decision based on facts rather than fiction. If leave is as popular as is leavers say then there is nothing to fear of a confirmatory vote.

Where's the democracy in a re vote?

Do you think those who wished to leave dont know how to make an informed

decision? .......Patronising much?


Also patronising to think that only stupid leavers would change their minds I

personally think it would be the other way around......but hey! what do I know

just another stupid leaver.

I voted leaved on the proviso a deal would be easily negotiated. I didn't vote to leave with no deal. Get down off your high horse. Like I say, now people know what leaving is actually going to look like then why not see what the public decide?

There were no proviso's on the ballot.
You voted leave with some expectations. Just because your expectations have not been met, doesn't mean we have to vote again. That's not really how it works in a one time vote.

I'll remind you of Cameron's statement.

Your decision. Nobody else’s. Not politicians. Not Parliament’s. Not lobby groups. Not mine. Just you. You, the British people, will decide. At that moment you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands. This is a huge decision for our country – perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetime.

“So, to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to Leave would merely produce another stronger negotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain could stay. I say, think again. “The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice. And In or Out referendum. “When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored. “If we vote to Leave, then we will Leave.

If you voted with proviso's expecting a do over then you weren't listening. That's on you.
Now read that statement back again slowly and understand the damage it will do to our country if we DON'T leave now. The video of Cameron saying that will haunt the country daily as we sit still in the EU. Our Democracy will be a sham.

originally posted by: RexKramerPRT

I voted leaved on the proviso a deal would be easily negotiated. I didn't vote to leave with no deal.

The Ballot Paper said simply.......

Do you wish to STAY in the EU

OR

Do you wish to LEAVE the EU


DEAL????????? Not on my form, Did you have a special one?

I didn't vote to leave with no deal. Get down off your high horse. Like I say, now people know what leaving is actually going to look like then why not see what the public decide?

How many times will it be necessary to vote to get the result you require?

Best of three best of five?

I and most other leavers seem to know what they were voting for they aren't

the ones complaining ....... Its the sore remainers who are constantly and

patronisingly telling us "We didn't know what we were voting for!!!!

a reply to: eletheia

Of course, that's the EU way of doing democracy, keep on voting until they get their way.

No one wants to touch the John Major question I guess, just like the remainstream media. BBC News, Channel 4 News and SLY News skip it and tell us the last time parliament was prorogued was a few hundred years ago. Soon as someone dares to mention hang on wasn't it in 1997 they quickly change the subject and move on. But Uncle John will be there next week having his day in court with knuckledragger Gina Miller and her pile of George Soros cash telling people it's an illegal thing to do.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: RexKramerPRT

I voted leaved on the proviso a deal would be easily negotiated. I didn't vote to leave with no deal.

The Ballot Paper said simply.......

Do you wish to STAY in the EU

OR

Do you wish to LEAVE the EU


DEAL????????? Not on my form, Did you have a special one?

I didn't vote to leave with no deal. Get down off your high horse. Like I say, now people know what leaving is actually going to look like then why not see what the public decide?

How many times will it be necessary to vote to get the result you require?

Best of three best of five?

I and most other leavers seem to know what they were voting for they aren't

the ones complaining ....... Its the sore remainers who are constantly and

patronisingly telling us "We didn't know what we were voting for!!!!

I want everything promised to me when I voted to leave. Seamless trade deal. No effect on travel. What happened to Canada++, Norway++. These were the arguments of the leave campaign. A deal was one of the selling points. Where is that deal? Have you read Yellowhammer?.

Again, I voted leave. We need to leave the EU in an amicable way and get on with an agreement otherwise who wants to deal with a party who has form for shafting them.

originally posted by: RexKramerPRT

Again, I voted leave. We need to leave the EU in an amicable way and get on with an agreement otherwise who wants to deal with a party who has form for shafting them.

Dare I say it?.......Most of the U.K M.P.'s

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Scotland is going to figure out just how little they matter to the queen.

a reply to: yuppa

And here was all of us presuming to be the most sparkly of jewels in her royal crown!

The Queen is 93 years old, i don't imagine much matters to her anymore aside from breathing, to be honest.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: ScepticScot

What's 'the current legal position' ?

Do you need to re-read the title of the thread?

No. The title of the thread is not the current legal position.

errr yeah actually it is, currently the legal position is that the decision to prorogue was unlawful.

Now sure that could change when it get to the Supreme Court and yeah you can disagree with it all you want but it does not change the legal position.

Er, it actually isn't.

The current legal position is that the Scottish Court of Sessions has ruled it unlawful and the High Court of England and Wales have ruled the case is not justicable.
Now the Supreme Court will make a decision.
As it stands there is no order to end the prorogation.

That's the current legal position. Two courts disagreeing with one another with arbitration pending.

No the Scottish Court of Sessions is the highest UK court to pass judgment as such it supersedes the judgement made by the High Court and unless the Supreme Court take a different view this is now the legal position.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

After reading quite a bit on this and some time spent pondering I must say that you are correct, this ruling does indeed carry some weight.
I was wrong and you were right.

I have deep suspicions about Johnson's motivations and I aslo think many on the Remainer side are using this judgement to further their own agenda's.

Its all smoke in mirrors and serves no other purpose other than to deflect away from the fact that the result of a democratic ballot is going to be overturned and ignored.

And it further reduces - if that was possible - whatever regard and respect the UK held on the world stage.

I haven't got a bloody clue what's going on anymore.
I just want this to end.....and pretty damn quickly so we can get on with things.

a reply to: Freeborn

After reading quite a bit on this and some time spent pondering I must say that you are correct, this ruling does indeed carry some weight.
I was wrong and you were right.

Buddy when even the people who are supposed to know about this don't have a clue whats going on I think we can all be excused in making a few honest errors here and there. This is really complex and its understandable that all of us at times get things mixed up or back to front.

I just want this to end.....and pretty damn quickly so we can get on with things.

On that we can agree.

Yes the sooner we get out the better

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Basically they are saying that it was the advice that Boris gave to the queen was misleading and therefore unlawful

If unlawful in Scotland there is a real possibility that it will found illegal in England too and if so is a serious matter.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Scotland is going to figure out just how little they matter to the queen.

Do you mean the British Legal System will find out how little it means to the Queen?

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Basically they are saying that it was the advice that Boris gave to the queen was misleading and therefore unlawful

If unlawful in Scotland there is a real possibility that it will found illegal in England too and if so is a serious matter.

So the Scottish court is the highest court in the UK to rule that it was unlawful, the Scottish Court of Sessions has jurisdiction over Westminster so as of right now then the legal position is that prorogation was illegal.

Now on Tuesday a appeal will be heard in the Supreme Court along with the other high profile case that is ongoing under English law regarding the prorogation. So until then the legal position remains as ruled by the Scottish court of Session.

It is unclear what the position of the UK Supreme Court will be however they have appointed 9 justices to the case. I done some reading this morning at it seems that Scottish courts tend to be less nauseous about getting involved in politics than the rest of the UK due to the different legal systems in use. So really next week is the big judgement however like I said above as of right now the legal position of the UK Judiciary is that prorogation was unlawful.