Public services being cut to pay for pensions

Coming soon to a town near you

www.illinoispolicy.org...

Public pensions are already eating away Illinois government services, increasing by more than 500% during the past 20 years as spending on core services including child protection, state police and college money for poor students has dropped by nearly one-third since 2000.
For example, in 2018 Peoria was forced to lay off 16 police officers, 22 firefighters and 27 municipal workers to be able to afford its pension payment.8 That same year the South Chicago suburb of Harvey laid off 18 firefighters and 13 police officers to make its own pension contributions.9

So the question that begs to be asked, if these services are being cut why do taxpayers have to pay full costs? #2, were these positions REALLY needed in the first place? 22 firefighters and 27 municipal workers seems like a lot, but maybe not. Maybe there has been soo much fat for soo many years. I know that if you weren't college material, family would encourage you to work for the village. That was before the pension mess. Now it's like Russian roulette!

My friends have already have felt the pains in Illinois, streets not being cleared of snow, not enough police, yet sky high taxes. This isn't right. I've seen some of this happening in my area too. The police force is a skeleton crew. The sheriff even told me how stretched they are.

Back to the question if public services etc aren't really providing a service or are providing a partial service, why do taxpayers have to pay for it? I imagine a young person just starting out, they are paying for a pension for services they will never see. crazy.

a reply to: JAGStorm

This is only the beginning.
They have been kicking the can down the road for decades and it will all come crashing down soon. You just watch those people sqeal for government bailouts of their pension plans.

The pension ponzi scheme will collapse. Retiree benefits will have to be cut.

There simply isn't enough money to pay for the lavish retirement benefits bestowed on public workers.

originally posted by: Edumakated
The pension ponzi scheme will collapse. Retiree benefits will have to be cut.

There simply isn't enough money to pay for the lavish retirement benefits bestowed on public workers.

2 years? How soon do you think it will happen?

What is ironic is that most of the people getting those benefits left the state years ago, Florida/Arizona/Texas/Wisconsin bound. I knew a retired Chicago cop. If people would have seen his mansion their jaws would drop. Some would think dirty money, nope as you said it was just a lavish pension! If you had two people working for the village... double that.

a reply to: JAGStorm

You haven't seen anything yet. Anchorage actually cuts core services like police, fire, and road maintenance to "afford" their robust homeless services and welfare spending. The folks who actually pay the bills get the shaft while the people doing nothing but taking are sheltered.

We've jumped the shark as a society, IMO.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I don't know how it works in the USA but pensions in the UK deducted from salary are paying for the pension of the previous generations.

My father died recently at 82 he retired at 65 if I look at what he paid in tax & national insurance what he got back from his state pension in the first 18 months his pension paid him more than he put in during his working life.

Wages increase and people live longer so gov/state funded pensions get put under strain my retirement age has went from 65 to now 67 my sons would be 68 subject to change.

In the UK you have to have some kind of private/work or both pension to be able to retire at a reasonable age.

a reply to: JAGStorm

The biggest problem is the baby boomers are retiring and I'm
one of them.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
What is ironic is that most of the people getting those benefits left the state years ago, Florida/Arizona/Texas/Wisconsin bound.

Can you blame them? As far as cops, firefighters, and city maintenance staff go, good for them. They fulfilled their end of the contract, now it is up to the city/county/state to fulfill their portion of the deal. The real problem is that government is far, FAR too large. They shouldn't be in the wealth redistribution, welfare, subsidy, handouts business. Also, public employees should NOT have unions. It's a huge conflict of interest, as the taxpayers should be seeing the best deal possible for their dollars... which is never the way contracts with union folks work themselves out, especially public sector unions.

a reply to: JAGStorm

The wise have been saying for a long time now that either we all figure out how to make do with less of what we've been promised or sooner or later none of us will have any of what we were promised.

You can still be promised everything but everything given to you out of nothing is nothing. Ask Venezuelans who have a very generous government that gives them everything out of the nothing it has to give.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: JAGStorm
What is ironic is that most of the people getting those benefits left the state years ago, Florida/Arizona/Texas/Wisconsin bound.

Can you blame them? As far as cops, firefighters, and city maintenance staff go, good for them. They fulfilled their end of the contract, now it is up to the city/county/state to fulfill their portion of the deal. The real problem is that government is far, FAR too large. They shouldn't be in the wealth redistribution, welfare, subsidy, handouts business. Also, public employees should NOT have unions. It's a huge conflict of interest, as the taxpayers should be seeing the best deal possible for their dollars... which is never the way contracts with union folks work themselves out, especially public sector unions.

I don't blame them, I blame the government. They had a chance to fix this by requiring a 401K type of system like most companies, and refused to do it. Now my guess is that Illinois pensions will get a bailout. I really don't think that pensions will be cut, but you never know. That did happen in Detroit.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Exactly, that's a big money laundering scheme.

Unions campaign for the politicians who end up sitting across from the public unions at contract negotiation time. The people who are actually footing the bill have no real seat at that table except as the dollar amount on the paper.

a reply to: Edumakated

Makes me wonder why about the ONLY city to bankrupt was Detroit.
All the other cities facing pension issues...are what???? Kicking the can down the road???
What did Chicago do to fix the problem? I thought pensions and healthcare for retirees was t critical mass years ago??

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: JAGStorm
What is ironic is that most of the people getting those benefits left the state years ago, Florida/Arizona/Texas/Wisconsin bound.

Can you blame them? As far as cops, firefighters, and city maintenance staff go, good for them. They fulfilled their end of the contract, now it is up to the city/county/state to fulfill their portion of the deal. The real problem is that government is far, FAR too large. They shouldn't be in the wealth redistribution, welfare, subsidy, handouts business. Also, public employees should NOT have unions. It's a huge conflict of interest, as the taxpayers should be seeing the best deal possible for their dollars... which is never the way contracts with union folks work themselves out, especially public sector unions.

My deceased father was a cop for almost 30 years. He got a nice pension and I am thankful that my mother gets it in her old age.

I honestly don't really have an issue with pensions for police and fire given the physical risks with job.

However, the problem is we've allowed desk clerks at village hall, teachers, and all other public servants to dine at the trough. The typical pensioner doesn't put anywhere near what they will draw out in retirement.

It is an actuarial problem. People are living way longer and the financial models are not setup to deal with the longer payouts. There simply aren't enough contributors and far too many takers.

Wife and I are living a very frugal life trying to save for our own retirement. Meanwhile, my property tax bill is damn near a mortgage by itself to fund other people's retirement (on top of the absurd income taxes I already pay).

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: Edumakated

Makes me wonder why about the ONLY city to bankrupt was Detroit.
All the other cities facing pension issues...are what???? Kicking the can down the road???
What did Chicago do to fix the problem? I thought pensions and healthcare for retirees was t critical mass years ago??

From what I've heard it still has about 2 years before it implodes... we'll see

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
a reply to: Edumakated

Makes me wonder why about the ONLY city to bankrupt was Detroit.
All the other cities facing pension issues...are what???? Kicking the can down the road???
What did Chicago do to fix the problem? I thought pensions and healthcare for retirees was t critical mass years ago??

They haven't done anything. Continually increasing property tax bills are how they are trying to fix the problem but you can only squeeze so much blood from a stone. It is starting to affect property values with home values barely rising over the past 15 years. We have the second highest property taxes in the nation now.

The only way to do anything is to have the state constitution amended so benefits can be cut. Obviously, with Democrats running things, that isn't going to happen.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Detroit ran into a perfect storm.

It had the same issues as places liek Chicago coupled with depopulation. Chicago hasn't quite hit the depopulation thing yet. But it's starting to happen. There isn't much middle class left in the city.

And the state of Illinois has gotten to the point where they are borrowing money to cover a shortfall to be able to borrow.

Had they allowed the middle class to continue to grow most of these costs could be funded but alas, that was not to be. They prefer serfs even if it destroys state/city budgets. Actually, ESPECiAlly if it destroys them because that means MORE DEBT which can then be monetized. The money misery racket.

This is what happens when public servants are paid more than their counterparts in the private sector and lavished with union perks. The source of it is unions and politicians pandering for union support.

I'd imagine if you could get into the minds of the local socialist leaning politicians, you would find they don't worry because they assume at some point the Federal government will bail them out, so why worry?

Government often seems to hire the least capable and pay them too much for doing too little work. Not a doubt in my mind a person from the private sector could do two peoples jobs and still have half the day to daydream while surfing the Internet.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Didn't the taxpayer already pay for these pensions? If so then how does the government plan on paying them?

originally posted by: Tarzan the apeman.
a reply to: JAGStorm

Didn't the taxpayer already pay for these pensions? If so then how does the government plan on paying them?

Yes and no.
Taxing is a constant, at one point what was collected from taxes was enough to cover the pensions. What happened was that too many people retired, too many of the pensions were too rich. Illinois is now at the crux, or as someone mentioned the ponzi scheme coming to light.

We'll see if the government pays for them. I personally think they will. That will make a lot of people mad. The whole problem is that Illinois was irresponsible and ignored the problem.