It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
“The Father of men and gods gave you birth remote from men and secretly from white-armed Hera. There is a certain Nysa, a mountain most high and richly grown with woods, far off in Phoenicia, near the streams of Egypt.”
- [Homeric Hymn to Dionysus]
For I have traveled much and undergone much hardship, for it was eight years before I could get home with my fleet wandering through Cyprus and Phoenicia and the Egyptian people I reached, Sidonians , Eremboi (Syria) even Libya, a place where lambs are born with horns...
I will now present you with the finest and most precious piece of plate in all my house. It is a mixing bowl of pure silver, except the rim, which is inlaid with gold, and it is the work of Vulcan. Phaidimos king of the Sidonians gave it to me in the course of a visit that I paid him while I was on my return home....
I was trying to come here but the gods detained me in egypt , Off egypt about as far as a ship can sail in a day is an Island called Pharos it has a good harbor...here the gods becalmed me twenty days...I again stationed my ships in the heaven-fed stream of Egypt , and offered hecatombs for the gods sent me a fair wind.
- [Homer Odyssey ; 750 B.C]
“His mother went into the house and called her waiting-women who gathered the matrons throughout the city. She then went down into her fragrant store-room, where her embroidered robes were kept, the work of Sidonian women, whom Paris had brought over from Sidon when he sailed the seas upon that voyage during which he carried off Helen." – [Homer Illiad; 750 BCE]
“Hera stirs up a storm against them and they are carried to Sidon, where Paris takes the city. From there he sailed to Troy and celebrated his marriage with Helen.” - [Epic Fragments ; C6th BCE]
"I conceived the idea of making a descent on Egypt, so I fitted out a fine fleet and manned it. I had nine ships, and the people flocked to fill them. For six days I and my men made feast, and I found them many victims both for sacrifice to the gods and for themselves, but on the seventh day we went on board and set sail from Crete
On the fifth day we reached the river Aigyptos; there I stationed my ships in the river, bidding my men stay by them and keep guard over them while I sent out scouts to reconnoiter from every point of vantage.
"But the men in their insolence disobeyed my orders, took to their own devices, and ravaged the land of the Egyptians, killing the men, and taking their wives and children captive. The alarm was soon carried to the city, and when they heard the war cry, the people came out at daybreak till the plain was filled with horsemen and foot soldiers and with the gleam of armor. Then Zeus spread panic among my men, and they would no longer face the enemy, for they found themselves surrounded. The Egyptians killed many of us, and took the rest alive to do forced labor for them. Zeus, however, put it in my mind to do thus - and I wish I had died then and there in Egypt instead, for there was much sorrow in store for me
I took off my helmet and shield and dropped my spear from my hand; then I went straight up to the king's chariot, clasped his knees and kissed them, whereon he spared my life , bade me get into his chariot, and took me weeping to his own home. Many made at me with their ashen spears and tried to kill me in their fury, but the king protected me, for he feared the wrath of Jove the protector of strangers, who punishes those who do evil.
"I stayed there for seven years and got together much money among the Egyptians, for they all gave me something; but when it was now going on for eight years there came a certain Phoenician, a cunning rascal, who had already committed all sorts of villainy, and this man talked me over into going with him to Phoenicia, where his house and his possessions lay. I stayed there for a whole twelve months.
- [Homer Odyssey ; 750 B.C]
originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: ancienthistorian
" Flood is sent by Zeus to destroy all of mankind along with the giants. "
Well , at Least he got that Half Right , but Mankind is Still Breathing . Guess the " God " Zeus was having a Bad Hair Day that Day ..........
originally posted by: ancienthistorian
The Golden Age (10 000 BCE – 3000 BCE)
• Atlantis was build
• Mankind was created by Prometheus
• Battle between gods and giants
• Flood is sent by Zeus to destroy all of mankind along with the giants.
• Deucalion and his family escape in an Ark, which Prometheus tells him to build.
For some time during the Middle Ages, many European Christian scholars continued to accept Greek mythical history at face value, thus asserting that Deucalion's flood was a regional flood, that occurred a few centuries later than the global one survived by Noah's family. On the basis of the archaeological stele known as the Parian Chronicle, Deucalion's Flood was usually fixed as occurring sometime around c. 1528 BC. Deucalion's flood may be dated in the chronology of Saint Jerome to c. 1460 BC. According to Augustine of Hippo (City of God XVIII,8,10,&11), Deucalion and his father Prometheus were contemporaries of Moses. According to Clement of Alexandria in his Stromata, "...in the time of Crotopus occurred the burning of Phaethon, and the deluges of Deucalion
originally posted by: FatherLukeDuke
originally posted by: ancienthistorian
The Golden Age (10 000 BCE – 3000 BCE)
• Atlantis was build
• Mankind was created by Prometheus
• Battle between gods and giants
• Flood is sent by Zeus to destroy all of mankind along with the giants.
• Deucalion and his family escape in an Ark, which Prometheus tells him to build.
Well, as already pointed out Atlantis isn't a part of Geek myth. Also, what are your sources for this?
The "Deucalion flood" isn't dated before 3000BCE:
originally posted by: ancienthistorian
Atlantis I was loosely referring to the civilization prior to the flood that was mentioned by Hesiod.
I'm not sure when exactly Deucalion's flood happened
The surviving upper chronicle fragment currently resides in the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford. It combines dates for events which modern readers would consider mythic, such as the Flood of Deucalion (equivalent to 1529/28 BC) with dates we would categorize as historic.
it just wasn't a part of ancient Greek myth
According to Greek mythology, humankind passed through a number of eras that were characterised by specific events, and were known in ancient Greece as the Ages of Man.
Hesiod, a famous ancient Greek poet, recognized five ages, According to Hesiod, the five ages of man were:
- The Golden Age. During the Golden Age of Man, the ruler of gods and men was the Titan Cronus. Mankind lived harmoniously among the gods and interacted with them. There was an abundance of food that nature provided, and humans did not need to work; so, they were able to live to a very old age, and when they died, it happened harmoniously and peacefully.
you really need to stick to when the ancient Greeks dated it, rather than making your own up. See the Parian Chronicle:
1. From the time Cecrops became king of Athens, [130] hence [131] the land formerly called Actica—from Actaeus, born from the earth—was called Cecropia, 1318 years (= 1581/0 BCE). [132]
2. From the time Deucalion became king on Mount Parnassus in Lycorea, when Cecrops was king of Athens, 1310 years (= 1573/2 BCE).
3. From the time a trial occured in Athens between Ares and Poseidon over Halirrhothius, Poseidon’s son—hence the place was called Areopagos—1268 years (= 1531/0 BCE), when Cranaus was king of Athens.
4. From the time a flood (kataklysmos) occured in Deucalion’s days, and Deucalion escaped the waters from Lycorea to Athens towards, . . . and es[tablished] the t[e]mple of Zeus (?) . . . [133] and made the sacrifices of deliverance, 1265 years (= 1528/7 BCE), when Cranaus was king of Athens.
5. From the time Amphictyon, son of Deucalion, became king in Thermopylae and gathered together those dwelling near the sanctuary—hence named them Amphictyons—and . . . where the Amphictyons still make sacrifices nowadays, [134] 1258 years (= 1521/0 BCE), when Amphictyon was king of Athens.
6. From the time Hellen, son of Deuc[alion], became king of [Phthi]otis—hence they were named Hellenes, being formerly called Greeks—and the contest . . . , 1257 years (= 1520/19 BCE), when Amphictyon was king of Athens.
7. From the time Cadmus, son of Agenor, went to Thebes . . . [and] founded the Cadmea, 1255 years (= 1518/7 BCE), when Amphictyon was king of Athens.
8. From the time . . . became kings, 1252 years (= 1515/4 years), when Amphictyon was king of Athens.
9. From the time a shi[p . . . o]ars [135] sailed from Egypt to Hellas—hence it was called pentekontoros—and Danaus’s daughters . . . and . . . Helike and Archedike, chosen by lot by the rest . . . and made sacrifices on the shore in . . . in Lindos of Rhodes, 1247 years (= 1510/9 BCE), when . . . was kin[g of Athens]. [136]
10. [From the time Erich]thonius yoked a chariot in the first Panathenaea that took place, and showed forth the contest and . . . the Athenians, [137] [a]nd [an image] of the Mother of the [g]ods appeared on the ridge of Cybele, and the Phrygian Hyagnis first invented the auloi in C [138] . . . the Phrygian ones . . . and he first played on the auloi [the mode (harmonia) c]alled Phrygian and the other nomoi of the Mother, of Dionysos, of Pan, and the . . . , 1242 years (1505/4 BCE), when Erichthonius, who yoked the chariot, was king of Athens.
11. From the time Minos . . . [bec]ame [k]ing . . . founded A[pol]lonia (?), [139] and iron was discovered on Ida, an invention of the Idaean Dactyls, Celmis a[nd Damnameneus . . . years], when Pandion was [ki]ng of Athens.
12. From the time Demeter, after arriving at Athens, planted grain, [140] and the [fi]rst [festival of ploughing (?)] was brought about . . . of [T]riptolemus, son of Celeus and Neaera, [141] 1146 ? years (= 1409/8 BCE), when Erichtheus was king in Athens.
13. From the time Tripto[lemus] . . . sowed (the grain?) in the Rarian land called Eleusis, 1[1]45 years (= 1408/7 BCE), when [Erichtheus] was king of Athens.
14. [From the time . . . Orpheus] . . . so[n] . . . made his poetry public, namely, [142] Kore’s rape and Demeter’s quest, [143] and the . . . [144] of those who received the grain, 1135 years (=1398/7 BCE), when Erichtheus was king of Athens.
15. [From the time Eumolpus (?)] . . . instituted the mysteries in Eleusis and made the po[e]ms of his [father M]ousaeus publ[ic], . . . [years, when Erichthe]us, son of Pandion, [was king of Athens].
16. From the time a purification first occured . . . 12 [years], when Pandion, son of Cecrops, was king of Athens.
17. From the time the gymnic [contest] at Eleusis . . . the Lycaea [145] occured in Arcadia and . . . of Lycaon were given . . . to the Hell[e]ne[s] . . . [years], when Pandion, son of Cecrops, was king of Athens.
18. From the time . . . Heracles . . . when Aegeus was king in Athens.
19. From the time there was a [deart]h of grain in Athens, and [Apo]llo advised (?) the Athe[nians] . . . consulting him to undert[a]ke the [compensa]tion . . . th[at] Minos would consider just, 1031 years (= 1294/3 BCE), when Aegeus was king of Athens.
20. From the time Thes[eus] . . . [became king] of Athens and united the twelve cities and bestow[ed] the constitution and the democracy . . . of Athens . . . established the Isthmian contest after killing Sinis, 995 years (= 1259/8 BCE). [146]
21. From the . . . of the Am[az]on[s . . . 9]92 [years] (= 1256/5 BCE), when Theseus was king of Athens.
22. From the time the Argives with Adras[tus waged] war [against Th]ebes and [e]st[abl]ished the contest in [Neme]a . . . , 987 years (= 1251/0 BCE), when Theseus was king of Athens.
23. From the time the [Helle]nes w[a]ge[d] war against Troy, 954 years (= 1218/7 BCE), when [Men]estheus was king of Ath[ens], in his thirteenth year.
24. From the time Troy was conquered, 945 years (= 1209/8 BCE), when [Menesthe]us was king of Athens, in his ⟨twenty⟩ [147] second year, in the month of Th[argeli]on, in the seventh day, (counting) from the end of the month.
Atlantis appears in exactly ZERO Greek myths. You lost it from the very start.
originally posted by: ancienthistorian
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke
it just wasn't a part of ancient Greek myth
Can you explain to me how the 'The Ages of Man' is not part of Greek Myth?
originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: purplemer
So I guess Harte Believes Plato’s Timaeus and Critias’ Story of a Mythical Island Continent of Atlantis was Pure Fiction After All .......Hmm......
originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Harte
Atlantis appears in exactly ZERO Greek myths. You lost it from the very start.
You claim to know your stuff and talk like you’re an expert but really know next to nothing.
When you are out of remit about what you are talking about. You should say so. Not pretend to know your stuff.
If you cannot identify it in Greek myth it is because you are not understanding what you are reading.
originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke
Considering the Greeks Mythos Stories of a Fabled Ancient Civilization on an Island Continent were first Related to them from the Greek Scholar Solon after a Visit to Egypt , that Knowledge of Recorded History Predated even the Earliest Greek Civilization in Europe , so the Greeks were Latecomers to Forwarding that particular Story . I would Imagine it would be Harder to just Disregard the Atlantis Myth if Challenged by Ancient Egyptian Recorded History , no ?
originally posted by: Harte
originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke
Considering the Greeks Mythos Stories of a Fabled Ancient Civilization on an Island Continent were first Related to them from the Greek Scholar Solon after a Visit to Egypt , that Knowledge of Recorded History Predated even the Earliest Greek Civilization in Europe , so the Greeks were Latecomers to Forwarding that particular Story . I would Imagine it would be Harder to just Disregard the Atlantis Myth if Challenged by Ancient Egyptian Recorded History , no ?
That would be great, except there's not a shred of evidence in any Ancient Egyptian writing concerning anything like an ancient civilization anywhere, much less on an island continent.
Harte
originally posted by: ancienthistorian
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke
it just wasn't a part of ancient Greek myth
Can you explain to me how the 'The Ages of Man' is not part of Greek Myth?
According to Greek mythology, humankind passed through a number of eras that were characterised by specific events, and were known in ancient Greece as the Ages of Man.
Hesiod, a famous ancient Greek poet, recognized five ages, According to Hesiod, the five ages of man were:
- The Golden Age. During the Golden Age of Man, the ruler of gods and men was the Titan Cronus. Mankind lived harmoniously among the gods and interacted with them. There was an abundance of food that nature provided, and humans did not need to work; so, they were able to live to a very old age, and when they died, it happened harmoniously and peacefully.
originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
originally posted by: Harte
originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke
Considering the Greeks Mythos Stories of a Fabled Ancient Civilization on an Island Continent were first Related to them from the Greek Scholar Solon after a Visit to Egypt , that Knowledge of Recorded History Predated even the Earliest Greek Civilization in Europe , so the Greeks were Latecomers to Forwarding that particular Story . I would Imagine it would be Harder to just Disregard the Atlantis Myth if Challenged by Ancient Egyptian Recorded History , no ?
That would be great, except there's not a shred of evidence in any Ancient Egyptian writing concerning anything like an ancient civilization anywhere, much less on an island continent.
Harte
Egypt went out of its way to forget the times prior to Narmer. (Although this doesn't necessarily preclude Egyptian scholars from having records of it.)
The purported source for Plato's narrative was a guy who got it from Egyptian priests, so it's clearly not something we can expect to find in the more common Greek mythology.