Mourning the Death of Democracy in the UK

a reply to: gortex

I’m not sure how many of you watch South Park, but there’s a great allegory about this sort of thing in the episode, “You’re not Yelping.”

There’s a large group of Yelp food critics gathered around, and Kyle tells cartman, “You’ve got your army! You’ve got your followers! If you’re such a great leader, tell the city what you want!”
At this point, all the Yelp reviewers begin to answer him, thinking that he’s addressing each one of them as the leader.

This is unfortunately how a lot of people view democracy these days. “I voted this way, and as the self-appointed democratic voice of this country, so did everyone else.” It’s just bizarre.

a reply to: gortextotally agree every word

The people marching are the very essence of all that is vile about self centred, pampered, spoiled, adult children.
They didn't get their way so they scream and shout about how democracy is over because they lost... a democratic vote.

OP, you are spot on about the last 3 years. Remainer liars and cheats have done everything possible to create a stalemate, hoping to run the clock so long that we end up staying. The protests are about continuing the pretence that they want a deal, when what they REALLY want is for democracy to be ignored and to stay in the EU.

Every single one of these people is a snivelling little wretch.

my self and my sibblings were both pushed about in a pram me mum and dad were both working class a reply to: DISRAELI

people who both worked so you'd bet it was a second hand one

a reply to: gortex

So, the internal machinations of the Tory party, the nomination of candidates by the 1922 committee and the votes of 139,000 Tory Party Members in a country of 68 million people is democracy is it?

The above resulted in the appointment of a man who lied to the country during Brexit campaign, didn't (still doesn't) have a viable plan to carry it out and who also suggested that Gordon Browns selection as Prime Minister by the Labour Party after the appointment of Tony Blair was undemocratic and an affront to the electorate, and who has appointed a cabinet of people most of whom suggested that proroguing parliament was an absurd suggestion less than three months ago and who are now splendidly quiet on the idea.

That's not democracy, its a farce.

a reply to: neformore

I'm no Johnson fan but if he can end this Groundhog day we find ourselves in then so be it , I can see his strategy and think it right for the situation , if it means calling time on the circus that is Parliament to achieve that then again , so be it.

The Queen was right , her government can't govern.

a reply to: neformore

You misunderstand the political system of the UK. The UK is not a presidential system. The Prime Minister is elected by the party in power, but is also an elected MP.

Democracy is well demonstrated in the UK. The last three years of EU debate have got no where except to frustrate the exit of the UK from the EU. Strangely, at no point in the debates has anyone articulated clearly why we should stay in the EU, but that's another discussion. The mechanics of the EU democracy are grossly flawed for a start.

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: neformore

You misunderstand the political system of the UK. The UK is not a presidential system. The Prime Minister is elected by the party in power, but is also an elected MP.

Democracy is well demonstrated in the UK. The last three years of EU debate have got no where except to frustrate the exit of the UK from the EU. Strangely, at no point in the debates has anyone articulated clearly why we should stay in the EU, but that's another discussion. The mechanics of the EU democracy are grossly flawed for a start.

Even more strange is that none of the cretins demostrating today are concerned that democracy has been sh!t on from a great height in the last 3 years. We voted to leave and we're STILL in the EU.

originally posted by: network dude
quick question, "pram"? for the uninitiated please.

and where did that guy go who wanted to just keep repeating the vote for Brexit until he got the results he was after?

I hope you folks get what you want and it works out like you hoped.

If you mean Nigel Farage, he's still about with the Brexit party. Thing about him was that he cries Democracy, but he's not a Democrat, in fact before the 2016 vote...in May 2016, he told the press that, " if the Brexit vote was defeated, he would still be on the streets protesting", also in fact that quote would not be complete since he quoted a defeated Brexit figure, almost the same as makes no difference except in reverse, to the actual one, don't forget either that Farage brought it up himself...
2016,

" The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror* in which he said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

*Most papers reported on it BTW,
www.bbc.co.uk...

What no-one seems to acknowledge, is that the actual vote left no room for a working understanding, something Farage quite simply acknowledged himself as above, when he thought the stay-in-the EU company would win.

That figure as he said, I quote, " If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it," is actually nearer to what a working relationship can be be in about any business area for instance, financial, corporate etc...a quorum in other words.
Of course, Farage ever since has been telling those who would rather stay in the EU to get a life..never ceases in fact,

To me, Farage bared his soul as a racist...although with a dispensory bent, so not as 'bad' as Boris who was spending most of his time talking about the EU Nazis at the same moment, and other colourful stuff, enough to know that Boris wouldn't even be allowed to join the police forces in Britain...while here we are in fecking 2019 with Boris as Prime Minister.

No not, good enough for me...my ethics come from my parents, and will stay with me, and I have not much time for arseholes like Farage and Johnson..neither of whom are not, very nice people...even if they do entertain, and want...as noted somewhere, by Britain laughing away their racism as a 'Joke'...although I would lean heavier on Boris as being the biggest offender that way.

a reply to: gortex

I am not a citizen there so take my opinion for what it's worth.

How it looks from the the outside? To leave or stay was put to a vote. The people spoke. Pretty much the definition of democracy. Then that declaration was left unanswered by those whose job it is to respect that democratic process. Not very democratic.

With regards to the protester holding the sign, the above argument is probably meaningless. It is not what she wants so it is (fill in the blank). It's the death of democracy. It's racism. It's the patriarchy. Never mind if it makes no sense. Screeching is what's important. It's what they used when they were a child and has worked fine for their entire life up 'till now. Why change?

originally posted by: ABNARTY
a reply to: gortex

I am not a citizen there so take my opinion for what it's worth.
How it looks from the the outside? To leave or stay was put to a vote. The people spoke. Pretty much the definition of democracy. Then that declaration was left unanswered by those whose job it is to respect that democratic process. Not very democratic.

“I will tell you at the time,” Trump said at last Wednesday’s debate when asked if he would accept the election result on 8 November. “I’ll keep you in suspense.” The Republican candidate has repeatedly claimed, without evidence, that the election is “rigged” against him. “Of course there is large-scale voter fraud happening on and before election day,” he tweeted last week.


That's really when an unelected Trump refused to expect an outcome that might not serve him best.

www.theguardian.com...

That's an American President at present.

a reply to: smurfy

After reading this a few times, I am still at a loss.

What does Trump have to do with Brexit? An American candidate can claim whatever they want about the process but they play by those rules.

In this case, why offer a vote on remaining or staying if the will of the people will be ignored? Why bother?

Protesting against the delivery of a democratic referendum result and the will of the constituents whilst claiming that democracy is dead because you intend to deliver on a democratic vote, in itself proves that the actions of Parliamentarians hell bent on stopping BREXIT and these protestors has absolutely nothing to do with democracy whatsover!!

It is these very protestors that are trying to kill democracy by attempting to overturn the referendum result including even a deal BREXIT because a deal BREXIT is not a proper LEAVE as was voted for.

These people are traitors who would be happy to see our democracy destroyed to get what they want!

Long live Democracy! The will of the people is paramount!!!!!!!!!!!

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: gortex

So, the internal machinations of the Tory party, the nomination of candidates by the 1922 committee and the votes of 139,000 Tory Party Members in a country of 68 million people is democracy is it?

The above resulted in the appointment of a man who lied to the country during Brexit campaign, didn't (still doesn't) have a viable plan to carry it out and who also suggested that Gordon Browns selection as Prime Minister by the Labour Party after the appointment of Tony Blair was undemocratic and an affront to the electorate, and who has appointed a cabinet of people most of whom suggested that proroguing parliament was an absurd suggestion less than three months ago and who are now splendidly quiet on the idea.

That's not democracy, its a farce.

Oh yes, it is.

And I came to ATS and I saw this thread's title and went "Oh good, someone is saying something about the demonstrations and Bojo trying to outsmart the parliament" - and then I remembered that this is ATS, home to many loons and nutjobs and right-wingers who think that only their side is the winning team now and forever - and I thought "Oh no, this might be another of those suck-it-up threads with emotions and without logic."

And I was right.

Bojo was voted on by 168.000 people. The first referendum was voted on by 18% of the British people. People are demonstrating against a # (as you Brits seem so fancy to say a lot) who wants to outplay the voted parliament.

And all that is coming from this thread is "YAY, Brexit is here!!!" - gals and guys, you just lost a lot of international standing in regards to democratic legacy.
You lost a lot, and you do not regret it, because you are blinded by "IF it goes bad, the EU had us do it the wrong way!" and "We all voted pro-Brexit, ignore the real numbers" and "EU will bleed us out, we are so much better by leaving, and if it goes wrong, the EU is guilty!!!".

No gals and guys, the EU will never have to accept guilt on this one. You did it on yourself.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
Bojo was voted on by 168.000 people.

And you point is? You fail to realise that the Prime Minister is selected from within his / her party. The leader of the Liberal Democrats was recently voted in by the Lib Dem membership, for example.

you just lost a lot of international standing in regards to democratic legacy.

How? Please, in your own words astound us with your knowledge of Parliamentary procedure. MPs can debate Brexit and have been doing so for three years, but the machinations of the political classes are achieving bugger-all except to frustrate the referendum. Mostly, MPs have been trying to kill the UK exit, even though they voted to uphold the UK leaving.

the EU is guilty!!!".

Possibly. The EU's intransigence over the Irish Backstop and their desire to push this to the end is not the best signal to their closest partner to be. The EU represents itself. Sad the nations within the EU which will be most damaged are silenced and cowed.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

And I came to ATS and I saw this thread's title and went "Oh good, someone is saying something about the demonstrations and Bojo trying to outsmart the parliament" - and then I remembered that this is ATS, home to many loons and nutjobs and right-wingers who think that only their side is the winning team now and forever - and I thought "Oh no, this might be another of those suck-it-up threads with emotions and without logic."

And I was right.

loons and nutjobs and right-wingers , Oh my !

Bojo was voted on by 168.000 people.

Former Labour PM Gordon Brown was voted on by 0 people , that was hardly Democratic either.

And all that is coming from this thread is "YAY, Brexit is here!!!" - gals and guys, you just lost a lot of international standing in regards to democratic legacy.

Brexit is nearly here , the court case brought by remoaners will decide if Brexit continues on Wednesday.

We either leave on the 31st October or there will be another extension , more deadlock is not in anyone's best interests.

a reply to: gortex

Actually more deadlock is in the interest of Merkel and co and the remainers!

Democracy is overrated anyway...

Well, I'm off to read some more Daily Mail...

a reply to: gortex

Democracy died a long time before 28.8.19!

Did you vote for millions of Muslims to move here? Me neither.

When was the Anti Mass Immigration referendum?

Rhetorical.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
a reply to: gortex

Democracy died a long time before 28.8.19!

Did you vote for millions of Muslims to move here? Me neither.

When was the Anti Mass Immigration referendum?

Rhetorical.

It says here in today's Daily Mail that Brexit will make all your dreams come true...