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Is Socialism a Good Thing?
page: 4share:
But what is the metric for successful socialism? Or success under socialism if you wish to identify some individualism instead of collectivism? You
can’t use unadjusted rate of pay because differing tax rate may show that the “underpaid school teacher” is keeping more of their paycheck than
the socialist teacher after taxes.
How about homelessness as a yardstick? Sweden was 0.36% in 2011 and the US was 0.17% in 2017. source
How about unemployment? Yeah there can be some manipulations but let check it out. Oct 2018 for Sweden is 6.3% and the US for March 2019 is 3.4% Maybe that is why the US has a lower percentage of homelessness. Link
How about homelessness as a yardstick? Sweden was 0.36% in 2011 and the US was 0.17% in 2017. source
How about unemployment? Yeah there can be some manipulations but let check it out. Oct 2018 for Sweden is 6.3% and the US for March 2019 is 3.4% Maybe that is why the US has a lower percentage of homelessness. Link
originally posted by: Ahabstar
But what is the metric for successful socialism? Or success under socialism if you wish to identify some individualism instead of collectivism? You can’t use unadjusted rate of pay because differing tax rate may show that the “underpaid school teacher” is keeping more of their paycheck than the socialist teacher after taxes.
How about homelessness as a yardstick? Sweden was 0.36% in 2011 and the US was 0.17% in 2017. source
How about unemployment? Yeah there can be some manipulations but let check it out. Oct 2018 for Sweden is 6.3% and the US for March 2019 is 3.4% Maybe that is why the US has a lower percentage of homelessness. Link
Sweden is not a socialist system, it is a Capitalist Welfare State. I would say the metric of success under true socialism would be based on personal/family wellbeing, work/life balance etc rather than any material wealth metrics. True Socialism rejects consumerism.
edit on
31-8-2019 by harold223 because: (no reason given)
a reply to: harold223
I used Sweden because those officials in the US espousing socialism always point to Sweden. And for good reason, Venezuela didn’t fair too well under their Socialism.
Work/Life balance is a tricky metric to nail down. Sweden does have an overall lower suicide rate than the US but at higher rate among women in Sweden. US just has more men killing themselves per capita. While morbid, it does speak toward a happiness scale.
I used Sweden because those officials in the US espousing socialism always point to Sweden. And for good reason, Venezuela didn’t fair too well under their Socialism.
Work/Life balance is a tricky metric to nail down. Sweden does have an overall lower suicide rate than the US but at higher rate among women in Sweden. US just has more men killing themselves per capita. While morbid, it does speak toward a happiness scale.
originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: harold223
Sweden does have an overall lower suicide rate than the US but at higher rate among women in Sweden. US just has more men killing themselves per capita. While morbid, it does speak toward a happiness scale.
Men are more effective at killing themselves, particularly if they have access to guns.
NO!
I also didn't read it. Don't have to. Your title is enough...
If you make stupid choices. You get stupid results. Not sure who said that but they sound smart.
I also didn't read it. Don't have to. Your title is enough...
If you make stupid choices. You get stupid results. Not sure who said that but they sound smart.
a reply to: Specimen88
Only due to his gearing up for WW2
And , life was not much better at that time anyway.
So , no . Hitler did not improve Germany as much as some folks think.
Please learn history .
Like I said, he did bring back a broken world power back to it feet so it could rival Britain again.
Only due to his gearing up for WW2
And , life was not much better at that time anyway.
So , no . Hitler did not improve Germany as much as some folks think.
Please learn history .
a reply to: eletheia
I agree that just giving someone something like a car or a house isn't the best way to do it. It would be better if they had invested some effort into the thing, so that they consider it valuable and worth caring for.
I've seen it myself, in person.
However, there are people who legitimately fall on hard times which need assistance. Often, sufficient help is not provided, and I think in this situation, it's a real problem.
Thinking of myself, there was never a moment in my life when I didn't want to improve my situation, through work and effort and studying. Yet, I have been homeless in the past and worked my fingers to the bone for practically nothing. My current net worth is negative $120,000 even though I've been working full-time since the age of 16. I know where the money goes, I've been watching carefully, and it wasn't into my pocket. It was to the owners of the businesses I've worked for.
It wasn't a drug problem, it wasn't gambling, it wasn't laziness, lack of intelligence, lack of skills, or spending outside of my budget that leaves me in my mid 40s with negative net worth. It is a system that is refined to extract maximum profit from the economically disadvantaged. I was hit hardest in my 20s when I fell for the scam that is the university/student loan ordeal. I have a degree in a STEM major, but in spite of trying I have just never been paid much for all I do. I believe this is a legitimate grievance and criticism of the status-quo, or capitalism as so many call it.
I agree that just giving someone something like a car or a house isn't the best way to do it. It would be better if they had invested some effort into the thing, so that they consider it valuable and worth caring for.
I've seen it myself, in person.
However, there are people who legitimately fall on hard times which need assistance. Often, sufficient help is not provided, and I think in this situation, it's a real problem.
Thinking of myself, there was never a moment in my life when I didn't want to improve my situation, through work and effort and studying. Yet, I have been homeless in the past and worked my fingers to the bone for practically nothing. My current net worth is negative $120,000 even though I've been working full-time since the age of 16. I know where the money goes, I've been watching carefully, and it wasn't into my pocket. It was to the owners of the businesses I've worked for.
It wasn't a drug problem, it wasn't gambling, it wasn't laziness, lack of intelligence, lack of skills, or spending outside of my budget that leaves me in my mid 40s with negative net worth. It is a system that is refined to extract maximum profit from the economically disadvantaged. I was hit hardest in my 20s when I fell for the scam that is the university/student loan ordeal. I have a degree in a STEM major, but in spite of trying I have just never been paid much for all I do. I believe this is a legitimate grievance and criticism of the status-quo, or capitalism as so many call it.
originally posted by: AaarghZombies
originally posted by: eXia7
No. Get a Job or create something valuable to society.
A socialist education system help you to achieve both of those. Under socialism it's like everyone has a scholarship. So the poor can get into good schools not just the wealthy elite.
Not everybody is meant for college, I'm not fine with propping up losers.
originally posted by: eXia7
originally posted by: AaarghZombies
originally posted by: eXia7
No. Get a Job or create something valuable to society.
A socialist education system help you to achieve both of those. Under socialism it's like everyone has a scholarship. So the poor can get into good schools not just the wealthy elite.
Not everybody is meant for college, I'm not fine with propping up losers.
Does not having wealthy parents make one a loser?
Higher Education should be free and based on course relevent aptitude tests. If your parents are wealthy but you are not too bright and can't pass the entry exams, you don't get into the more academic courses, simple.
edit on 31-8-2019 by harold223 because: spelling
originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: harold223
I used Sweden because those officials in the US espousing socialism always point to Sweden. And for good reason, Venezuela didn’t fair too well under their Socialism.
Work/Life balance is a tricky metric to nail down. Sweden does have an overall lower suicide rate than the US but at higher rate among women in Sweden. US just has more men killing themselves per capita. While morbid, it does speak toward a happiness scale.
This is a misguided argument. Venezuela improved greatly under its socialism initially by all international standards of healthcare, literacy and education. However, the US has been subjecting it to economic warfare, industrial espionage, coups, insurgency etc. Every nation the US does this to suffers greatly. Ignoring that and blaming socialism for their woes is disengenuous. It’s like saying Libya didn’t do to well with its Qaddafi.
edit on 31-8-2019 by pexx421 because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: pexx421
originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: harold223
I used Sweden because those officials in the US espousing socialism always point to Sweden. And for good reason, Venezuela didn’t fair too well under their Socialism.
Work/Life balance is a tricky metric to nail down. Sweden does have an overall lower suicide rate than the US but at higher rate among women in Sweden. US just has more men killing themselves per capita. While morbid, it does speak toward a happiness scale.
This is a misguided argument. Venezuela improved greatly under its socialism initially by all international standards of healthcare, literacy and education. However, the US has been subjecting it to economic warfare, industrial espionage, coups, insurgency etc. Every nation the US does this to suffers greatly. Ignoring that and blaming socialism for their woes is disengenuous. It’s like saying Libya didn’t do to well with its Qaddafi.
Yes. Socialism is always doomed to failure... Because the owners of most of the worlds capital are terrified of the idea of it spreading and thus, lobby the IMF, World Bank and powerful states like the US that they have under their thumb to aggresively stamp it out wherever it begins to manifest.
originally posted by: harold223
Does not having wealthy parents make one a loser?
Nope......
Higher Education should be free and based on course relevent aptitude tests.
True.........
If your parents are wealthy but you are not too bright and can't pass the entry exams, you don't get into the more academic courses, simple.
Who cares?
They will already have a top job waiting somewhere in one of Daddy's business's
originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: harold223
I used Sweden because those officials in the US espousing socialism always point to Sweden. And for good reason, Venezuela didn’t fair too well under their Socialism.
Work/Life balance is a tricky metric to nail down. Sweden does have an overall lower suicide rate than the US but at higher rate among women in Sweden. US just has more men killing themselves per capita. While morbid, it does speak toward a happiness scale.
If we use happiness as a scale, then it goes like this:
The World Happiness Report is an annual publication of the United Nations Sustainable Development Solutions Network. It contains articles, and rankings of national happiness based on respondent ratings of their own lives, which the report also correlates with various life factors. As of March 2019, Finland was ranked the happiest country in the world twice in row.
Wikipedia
(United States is in 18th place)
a reply to: generik
Yes , there are many benefits to people who get social welfare , in Scotland I am happy that my contributions help those who cannot afford it themselves !
the NHS and many other benefits we get from social care in the UK .
I hope that it weathers the storm of Brexit and we dont sell it all off to the USA
otherwise many people will die
Also in scotland we have free education , meaning when you leave Uni with your degree you dont then suffer crippling debt allowing you to actually make money after you qualify.
Yes , there are many benefits to people who get social welfare , in Scotland I am happy that my contributions help those who cannot afford it themselves !
the NHS and many other benefits we get from social care in the UK .
I hope that it weathers the storm of Brexit and we dont sell it all off to the USA
otherwise many people will die
Also in scotland we have free education , meaning when you leave Uni with your degree you dont then suffer crippling debt allowing you to actually make money after you qualify.
a reply to: Lumenari
That's because the people who want Socialism, still haven't learned and they are literally insane. Doing the same thing over and over and trying to get different results. It doesn't work. We really need to get rid of the Welfare system, actually.
That's because the people who want Socialism, still haven't learned and they are literally insane. Doing the same thing over and over and trying to get different results. It doesn't work. We really need to get rid of the Welfare system, actually.
They say that robots and ai technology will replace most jobs in the near future. It's actually already happening with a lot of companies like Uber
who plan to replace its human drivers with self driving cars or Amazon replacing fulfillment centers with packing robots. And with a capitalist model
this trend could quickly get out of control and really hurt our society since it would be a handful of powerful companies benefiting from the robots
while most people lose their jobs. It's a scary scenario.
So it seems like a socialist economic model of some kind that can protect the people is needed for when this trend takes full effect. That way instead of the robots becoming a threat to humanity they can actually serve us by freeing up resources so we can reduce our work shifts and have more time to spend with family, leisure, etc.
But I think this has to be regulated in favor of our society otherwise the powerful companies will take advantage of this with no concern for millions of people losing their jobs. And you will begin to see the first trillionaires alongside the worst homeless problem we have ever seen.
So it seems like a socialist economic model of some kind that can protect the people is needed for when this trend takes full effect. That way instead of the robots becoming a threat to humanity they can actually serve us by freeing up resources so we can reduce our work shifts and have more time to spend with family, leisure, etc.
But I think this has to be regulated in favor of our society otherwise the powerful companies will take advantage of this with no concern for millions of people losing their jobs. And you will begin to see the first trillionaires alongside the worst homeless problem we have ever seen.
edit on
2-9-2019 by Aluxe because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-9-2019 by Aluxe because: (no reason given)
a reply to: generik
Is the ideology that took a flourishing venezuela and turned it into a place where people are forced to search the garbage truck for meals, a good thing? No. It never has been and never will be. It's appealing to think you might do less and get more but that's just not how human nature works.
Is the ideology that took a flourishing venezuela and turned it into a place where people are forced to search the garbage truck for meals, a good thing? No. It never has been and never will be. It's appealing to think you might do less and get more but that's just not how human nature works.
originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: generik
Is the ideology that took a flourishing venezuela and turned it into a place where people are forced to search the garbage truck for meals, a good thing? No. It never has been and never will be. It's appealing to think you might do less and get more but that's just not how human nature works.
Socialism is always doomed to failure... Because the owners of most of the worlds capital are terrified of the idea of it spreading and thus, lobby the IMF, World Bank and powerful states like the US that they have under their thumb to aggresively stamp it out wherever it begins to manifest.
edit on 3-9-2019 by harold223 because: (no reason given)