Did Bob Lazar really discover Element 115?

originally posted by: Hunkadinka
The TV show includes the discovery of Element 115 by the Russians and comments made to separate the Russians' efforts and Lazar's claims. When you make a claim it behooves you to provide evidence. So far, Lazar's is lacking. You see the Russians' vast laboratory, does America have an equal Lab which should be manned by just Lazar.

There is some really embarrassing confusion on the element 115 point. Some Lazar supporters claim that the making element 115 in labs on Earth proves Bob Lazar was right, but it does exactly the opposite, it proves Bob Lazar was wrong!

Ironic, isn't it?

So why do so many Lazar supporters think 115 proves Lazar right? I suppose they don't bother to research what Lazar said about 115, but this explanation lays it out:

Episode 133 - Element 115 and the Credibility of Bob Lazar's Claims

Of ununpentium’s manufacture, Bob Lazar stated it is “impossible to synthesize an element that heavy here on Earth. … The substance has to come from a place where super-heavy elements could have been produced naturally.” But he also said that the US government had collected about 500 lbs of the material, which I guess would be enough to power 100 crafts for several years.

So synthesis of element 115 on Earth doesn't prove Lazar right...he said that was impossible to do on Earth, so it actually proves him wrong!!!

When will Lazar supporters ever get this right? Probably never.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Thanks for contributing from your vast knowledge. I'm honoured.

I have extreme prejudice against Lazar regarding his education. No government can swipe friends, professors that knew him, public records of all the graduates that year, places he lived near campus, landlords. He may have worked on the facility but he has no integrity. Never lie about your paper on the wall. Once one has no integrity they have nothing. He is a fraud and BS'er.

Did he identify 115 before or after the Russian s?
I find him 80% believable

a reply to: Arbitrageur

So synthesis of element 115 on Earth doesn't prove Lazar right

If you already have the material , "synthesis" could occur due to creating allatropes or isotopes .
You know , like that O2 stuff as opposed to the O3 stuff.

a reply to: Gothmog

You know , like that O2 stuff as opposed to the O3 stuff.

The difference between O2 and O3 is molecular. It has nothing to do with the atomic number of oxygen. Oxygen is element number 8, no matter its molecular form.

I enjoyed listening to Lazar's story. I also enjoy the ancient aliens shows. I guess I've been looking for closure ever since the crap ending of battlestar galactica so I use that sci-fi to sort of tie things together....but alas, it is all just sci-fi, innit.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Gothmog

You know , like that O2 stuff as opposed to the O3 stuff.

The difference between O2 and O3 is molecular. It has nothing to do with the atomic number of oxygen. Oxygen is element number 8, no matter its molecular form.

O2 and ozone are indeed allotropes of oxygen, which is a different physical form of the same element. Charcoal, graphene and diamond are allotropes of carbon.

Isotopes also don't change the atomic number, it references different atomic weights through differing numbers of neutrons while the protons stay the same; hence carbon-12, carbon-13 or carbon-14.

The decay of isotopes can form new isotopes which is how the use the decay of carbon in carbon dating, although I have no idea how an allotrope could synthesize a new element or isotope.

I'm firmly in the camp of believing Laser. I believe he does have E115.

One thing I do think, though is that the govermnent (?) plant false information during an employee's time at somewhere like s4 so that if there's an anonymous whistrblower they can idemtify whom that person is.

Lets bring in Jim Carrey to observe Bob:

Fact: No one on Earth has ever manufactured the isotope of 115 that Lazar made claims on.

Fact: Lazar made a claim about a specific isotope of 115, not 115, in general.

Isotope, isotope, isotope, people.

Fact: Lazar explicitly explained that the isotope of 115 in question was a stable isotope, due to 115's proximity to the isle of stability table. A chemistry term used to describe heavy Elements that are somehow more stable, by magnitudes, than other isotopes of that same element.

Fact: An isotope of either 115 or 116 is theorized by chemists, to exist, and be on the isle of stability as a very stable isotope of that element.

For Lazar to have known this in 1980's-1990's would be extremely impressive knowledge, given that the theorized stable version has never been created, yet real chemists believe it is potentially possible, as of the 2000's.

Lazar made a very, very, very good and specific guess/prediction, beyond just saying. "Oh it was element 169, blah blah blah."

That's not the point about this argument at all. Please take your BS and fact check it.

Somehow he had knowledge about this isle of stability isotope of 115 (probably 116) about a decade before it was publicly acknowledged as a real isotope.

That's the detail of this that matters.

It wasn't some number picked out of thin air, and that's a detail that really wasn't in any type of public acknowledged journal as far as I could search last time I looked.

Phage, hit me.

a reply to: Archivalist

I was going to mention something similar. Bob talks about it at length in this interview with Joe Rogan, an unedited 2hr account of all his claims.

I'm still quite undecided on him, but I must admit it gives me the heeby jeebies!

a reply to: Archivalist

Hasn’t this island of stability been theorized since way before the 80s or 90s?

Having watched the same AA episode, the impression I got was that Lazar TALKED ABOUT 115. He did not discover it, he was merely aware of its existence.

It wasn't until 2003 when the joint Russian and US effort that the element was isolated in a particle collider in Russia.

originally posted by: Starhooker
Did he identify 115 before or after the Russian s?
I find him 80% believable

It doesn't really matter, I graduated high school in 1993, and there were a whole bunch of predicted elements which my chemistry teacher explained were possible, and would likely be man-made eventually. We knew then, as we know now without other elements which are not naturally occurring, how many protons it would contain, how many rings of electrons, etc. The only thing we couldn't really know were their properties - which Lazar got wrong.

Fact: Ununpentium/115/Moscovium/eka-bismuth was theorized long before Lazar was building rocket cars. One could say we simply lacked the technical prowess to prove it's existence.

"In 1979 IUPAC recommended that the placeholder systematic element name ununpentium (with the corresponding symbol of Uup) be used until the discovery of the element is confirmed and a permanent name is decided. Although widely used in the chemical community on all levels, from chemistry classrooms to advanced textbooks, the recommendations were mostly ignored among scientists in the field, who called it 'element 115', with the symbol of E115, (115) or even simply 115."

Fact: Element 119 is the new hotness when it comes to "exotic" power sources. My upcoming book deal and convention appearances will be announced soon.

The JINR also had plans to study lighter isotopes of moscovium in 2017 by replacing the americium-243 target with the lighter isotope americium-241.The 48Ca+243Am reaction producing moscovium is planned to be the first experiment done at the new SHE Factory in 2018 at Dubna to test the systems in preparation for attempts at synthesising elements 119 and 120

I'm still on the fence about this. I want to believe Lazar but I'm not convinced.

Speaking of Ancient Aliens, it is entertainment, although it can be interesting when they don't try to connect ancient aliens with everything that's happened in the earth's history. They keep repackaging old shows into the "Classified" name for a 2-4 hours program. My DVR keeps thinking they are new and recording them

People think physics is hard, chemistry is harder. The math in that is atrociously difficult, I recall.

Didn’t he say you couldn’t synthesize it and they did in 2003?

a reply to: Willtell

Some very wise people once did say the same thing about flying.. and up we went.

He was not telling the future, he was telling about his experience, with the knowledge of those times.

Bob Lazar is planted by the government - he is a part of the military.

USA took Bob Lazar and told him what to do, so people would turn their eyes at area 51 and away from the real stuff.