Brexit and the Deal We Were Promised.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Thill

Let me just clarify,

The point I was making is that I often read or here about people saying words to the effect of "Well there was no mention of a deal when we voted for Brexit so why are we bothering with a deal?"

Nope. The vast majority of leavers have made the valid point that there was never any condition of a deal attached to the leave vote. That is not the same as saying that there was never any mention of a deal.

A deal is not - and never has been - linked to the vote to leave as a condition.

Basically what he is getting at, is that all leave voters are stupid as # and have all been misled by this "VoteLeave" website that he won't stop yapping on about.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

You seem to underestimate the UK's purchasing power.

The FACT is that over 14% of all German built cars are sold in the UK.
Do you honestly think Germany would not feel the impact if the UK market was shut to them?

The EU's share of the world economy has been steadily declining over recent years.
The simple fact is that the EU needs the UK just as much as the UK needs the EU for trade.

I think everyone understands the benefits of a Trade Agreement with the EU....but the EU has to be more conciliatory in its approach for this to happen.

And if it were true that the UK is nothing more than an 'awkward rock in the sea' then why are the EU so hell bent on seeing us remain within its control?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter



The FACT is that over 14% of all German built cars are sold in the UK.
Do you honestly think Germany would not feel the impact if the UK market was shut to them?

Sure they would but from a German perspective the Single Market is far more important than our little island a tenth of the EU population. They will replace us anyway with Ukraine etc as a market.

When push comes to shove the German economy works in unison with the government. If Merkel says they ahve to give up our market they will always do it proof being how this happened before when they followed orders by ditching the Russian market post Crimea and the sanction. A country with far more potential future markets, cast aside on orders from Merkel and the car industry followed orders

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter



And if it were true that the UK is nothing more than an 'awkward rock in the sea' then why are the EU so hell bent on seeing us remain within its control?

Probably our Big Five vote in addition and secondly our military might still fairly capable when confronting threats like Russia, USA etc.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter



The FACT is that over 14% of all German built cars are sold in the UK.
Do you honestly think Germany would not feel the impact if the UK market was shut to them?

Sure they would but from a German perspective the Single Market is far more important than our little island a tenth of the EU population. They will replace us anyway with Ukraine etc as a market.

When push comes to shove the German economy works in unison with the government. If Merkel says they ahve to give up our market they will always do it proof being how this happened before when they followed orders by ditching the Russian market post Crimea and the sanction. A country with far more potential future markets, cast aside on orders from Merkel and the car industry followed orders

We buy over £50bn more from the other EU countries than they buy from us.
We can take our money elsewhere and trade with other countries, thanks.

a reply to: UKTruth

If you put yourselves in their shoes we are a peripheral island and one that never really got fully involved in integration which does take plenty of the mainlads products sure, but by giving too much away all the other parts of the EU are going to want a similar deal. Brussels really have to play it careful if they don't want the whole EU to unravel regardless of trade surpluses or not, the whole thing could fall apart like the USSR did. They are treading with care and fear at the same time

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I'd have to agree that the campaign manifesto states that a deal would be struck before legally leaving the EU

saying that it wasnt on the ballot means that it isnt a part of the legal vote ,
but the referendum was simply an advisory vote so

maybe they can work the same angle

it wasnt legal and therefore the campaign and the manifesto has no legal obligation to include a deal if we leave ?

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

'A peripheral island'
Honestly?

5th Largest economy in the world.
2nd Largest financial centre in the world.
6th Most powerful military in the world.

Permanent seat on the UN Security Council.

Need I continue?

a reply to: Freeborn

Yes totally agree with you FB we have a great island and probably the best place on Eart (but I'm a bit prejudiced being from here lol) ................... At the same time that is nothing compared to the desire to maintain the Single Market.We could screw the whole thing of for them if they don't play it careful. USSR fall apart v2 is a total possibility for Brussels

Just saying the EU will cry when the whiskey runs out !

a reply to: Freeborn

Thanks, I know what the word means, and whether you wished it to be, it falls under several of the definitions you have provided as saying "The EU has adopted a bullying and totally uncompromising approach whilst the UK's negotiating tactics under May lacked any sort of cohesive or thought out stand point" suggests that the EU is the only one being the bully, it's suggesting the UK isn't and that we somehow had a more compromising approach.

None of those is actually correct, and they give a false illusion based on how you want it to be viewed, so it's disingenuous.

Because you didn't intend it to be doesn't mean it isn't.

a reply to: Tortuga

we all know why the deal May came up with was awful

Do we? Why was it then?

a reply to: 83Liberty

To be honest, I did want and thought we could get a free trade deal with the EU. It makes sense for the UK and for the EU but I just didn't realise how entrenched the EU has become now.

Really? And DRG, and others intent on no relationship with the EU would have welcomed it with open arms and ensured it passed through parliament?

Don't thinks so somehow, so who exactly has been entrenched for months or years?

originally posted by: Xabi87
Basically what he is getting at, is that all leave voters are stupid as # and have all been misled by this "VoteLeave" website that he won't stop yapping on about.

Nope I am not claiming that anyone is stupid and since you asked on other post VoteLeave where the lead campaign group for the side voting to leave the EU.

a reply to: uncommitted

Absolute bollocks.

a reply to: uncommitted

suggests that the EU is the only one being the bully, it's suggesting the UK isn't and that we somehow had a more compromising approach.

Ahhhh I really want to agree with you but I can't.

The EU is driving a hard deal, they don't want us to get a good deal and I can understand why they're doing it but it doesn't change the fact that really if they could they could have offered us a much better deal rather than the crap we were offered. Now again, I understand why they didn't do that but lets not pretend that they're not also to blame, at least in part, for the mess we are in.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: uncommitted

Absolute bollocks.

You obviously were that happy with what you wrote that you didn't see the need to actually remove the sentences I quoted then?

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: uncommitted

suggests that the EU is the only one being the bully, it's suggesting the UK isn't and that we somehow had a more compromising approach.

Ahhhh I really want to agree with you but I can't.

The EU is driving a hard deal, they don't want us to get a good deal and I can understand why they're doing it but it doesn't change the fact that really if they could they could have offered us a much better deal rather than the crap we were offered. Now again, I understand why they didn't do that but lets not pretend that they're not also to blame, at least in part, for the mess we are in.

Didn't say they weren't, I said it was disingenuous (don't you just know when you use a word that annoys some people) to suggest that the EU were acting in a certain manner but not acknowledging that the other party is acting in exactly the same way or worse?

To say we were more compromising is a little odd when the UK political media keeps trotting out that May wouldn't stray from her red lines, which fairly much sums up our lack of compromise.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: UKTruth

If you put yourselves in their shoes we are a peripheral island and one that never really got fully involved in integration which does take plenty of the mainlads products sure, but by giving too much away all the other parts of the EU are going to want a similar deal. Brussels really have to play it careful if they don't want the whole EU to unravel regardless of trade surpluses or not, the whole thing could fall apart like the USSR did. They are treading with care and fear at the same time

Fella - as I said we import over £50bn a year more from the EU than we export to the entire EU.
Not really peripheral, more integral. The Eu has a lot more to lose and that is why they are trying to stop Brexit from happening, either by pressuring the UK govt to ignore democracy or by offering a crap deal that is completely one sided towards them.
The Eu needs to be told to take a hike. They are 100% being more obstinate in the negotiations.