Brexit and the Deal We Were Promised.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You did prove however the pro -brexit crowd are demagogues though...

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Yea campaign promises are irrelevant, only the wording of the bill matters.

HOW!!!

You honestly think that?

I am baffled by this.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Your right.. but the SOP for that is not to vote for them Next time..

A legal challenge requires the “wording” not the campaign promises behind them.

originally posted by: mightmight


In any case, the former Prime Minister did a terrible job negotiating with the EU. Parliament made the right call voting it down.

May had her hands tied, she was trying to do the best for us when she hit a brick wall one being the EU rhe other our Parliament. Now we get the baffoon who is going to see the total de-indrustrialistaion of UK along with the City leaving for EU and Asia just so he can don his halloween capers. Nice one

I'm disadvantaged here, not being a British commonwealth or EU citizen, but my understanding would be greatly enhanced if the "sticking points" to a "deal" were outlined. I'll summarize the situation from my limited across-the-pond perspective, and hopefully get a few points correct about what the issues yet to be resolved are. PLEASE scrub, deny, enhance or add to what's presented so a fuller understanding of the issues may arise.

Obviously, the crux of the problem (besides the media mis-characterization inevitable in the USA) is the changing political power structure in the UK and the current parties' positions on Brexit & the Process of Brexits.

So, politics as usual EXCEPT the people have already voted for Brexit, failed to see politicians make a "deal" regarding EU relations post-Brexit, and the political climate has deteriorated to the point of contention over a new election on the subject OR a way to move forward on the People's mandate.

Then there are the unresolved issues (i.e. the missing pieces of a Brexit deal). Since I haven't much depth on these issues, below are presented a list in no order or indication of importance. Obviously, again these represent my limited understanding and are not meant to imply any support or preferred position regarding impediments facing Brexit.

1. Northern Ireland (because Ireland isn't Brexit)
2. Immigration/job fluidity with EU citizens in UK & vice-versa (Schengen Area?)
3. Trade issues, tarriffs, etc. with EU (or individual EU countries?)
4. Sovreignity of UK resources air, land & sea (fishing rights)
5. Shared military defense

Not even sure these are the REAL issues facing the UK, certain I haven't captured the essence of the problem. Help!

ganjoa

PS I know, I know, it's really all political BS, positioning, posturing, chest thumping, sabre rattling, safe space touchy feely #MeToo political correctness and yada yadya yada blah blah blah.. BUT REAL ISSUES!?!

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

When you go to put your cross in the box for a political party you don't get a full manifesto attached to your ballot paper, the expectation is that you as a voter know who you are voting for and what the implications of that vote could be based on the promises of whoever you are voting for.

ours are different and do include the details
thanks

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

When you go to put your cross in the box for a political party you don't get a full manifesto attached to your ballot paper, the expectation is that you as a voter know who you are voting for and what the implications of that vote could be based on the promises of whoever you are voting for.

ours are different and do include the details
thanks

Yeah our's don't would probably help though if they did but am glad I was able to clear it up for you I understand why you were asking the question and I appreciate your response.

originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Your right.. but the SOP for that is not to vote for them Next time..

A legal challenge requires the “wording” not the campaign promises behind them.

The referendum has no legal obligation to be carried out and leaving is based on campaign promises.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I have another question if you would be so kind.
Are the people in office still the same people as when brexit was passed?
Should that have an effect on how you leave or if you leave?

Im going on record here stating that I felt Britain should have never went along with the European Union in the first place.

But anyways, it's time to hold the politicians accountable for either their lack of ability or willingness to initiate brexit.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

My point however stands regarding the fact that a deal was actually what was promised.

A deal wasn't promised negotiations on a deal were , those negotiations happened and the EU got the deal they wanted without much of a fight , Parliament rejected the deal 3 times which says a lot for how bad the deal was given we have a remainer Parliament.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Are the people in office still the same people as when brexit was passed?

Most of them are still sitting members of parliament I don't have exact numbers which would be tricky to find I would imagine but the current PM for example actually was one of the leaders of the VoteLeave campaign as was Gove who is now in cabinet as is Dominic Rabb. Most of them though have moved about its been quite a turbulent time so the front bench as we call it has changed quite a bit.

Sorry dont know if that answers your question.

Should that have an effect on how you leave or if you leave?

Well it has, Broris has a cabinet made up largely of Brexit supporters who are onboard with his plan which is now essentially for us to leave on Halloween. If there was a different group of leaders in charge this could change which could possibly happen (but highly unlikely)

a reply to: gortex

A deal wasn't promised negotiations on a deal were

With respect,

In particular, we will negotiate a UK-EU Treaty that enables us 1) to continue cooperating in many areas just as now (e.g. maritime surveillance), 2) to deepen cooperation in some areas (e.g. scientific collaborations and counter-terrorism), and 3) to continue free trade with minimal bureaucracy.

What else is that if not a deal?

Again this is from their own website and is what they were promising voters.....

Taking back control is a carful change, not a sudden stop – We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave

I don't quite see how that could be interpreted anything other than VoteLeave saying a deal would be in place.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Thanks again!

a reply to: Bluntone22

Half of us don't even want Brexit. The Eu was actyally a good idea back when we joind it was a proper trade zone then they let loads of eastrn european commie states in that's when it went all tits up, many of our good jobs went east to poland romania etc while people from those very same countries invaded the west and took up many of the remaining jobs here while suppressing wage growtrh by willing to work harde4r for less. A bit like you lot being invaded by the Mexicans its the same here with the easdt Europaens. It was a great place before the fall of Warsaw Pact and worked very well, now it is just too much to tk and many voted for a way out.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Im going on record here stating that I felt Britain should have never went along with the European Union in the first place.

Like many monsters it evolved into the beast we see now , when we joined it was the European Economic Community who's only real focus was on trade ... and creating Butter mountains.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
What was on the ballot.
leave or no leave?
leave with a deal ?

you know, the actual ballot as it is kind of important

if it wasn't on the ballot how would one expect it?

the expectation is that you as a voter know who you are voting for and what the implications of that vote could bebased on the promises of whoever you are voting for. of whoever you are voting for.

So you are under the assumption that a vote based on "political promises" is written in stone? That politicians don't lie or break campaign promises????

Trump is the only US politician that I know of in modern history that has actually kept or attempted to keep almost every promise he made during his campaign.

Unfortunately, your UK politicians "told you what you wanted to hear" and lied to you.

This thread is a complete load of nonsense, we were never promised a deal, we were promised they would negotiate a deal. BIG difference.

And the #ers have tried to negotiate a deal... for too #ing long may i add.

a reply to: panoz77

So you are under the assumption that a vote based on "political promises" is written in stone? That politicians don't lie or break campaign promises????

My issue is not so much with them breaking the promise (although yeah that sucks) but rather with those who want to pretend that the promise was never made in the first place when its quite clear that it was.

a reply to: Xabi87

This thread is a complete load of nonsense, we were never promised a deal

VoteLeaves website says differently.

They even went as far to say this would all be in place be May of 2020 and lets face it none of us expect that to happen.