Epstein: Distinguishing Facts from Anonymous Leaks and Rumors

Like pretty much everyone, I'm trying to figure out and understand this whole Epstein saga. And in the process, I have spent far too much time trying to nail down rumors and anonymous leaks that are being stated as confirmed and undisputed fact. Including right here on ATS.

I will give one example. From the NY Post:

Jeffrey Epstein was confident he could fight the child sex trafficking charges against him and was in “great spirits” just hours before his jailhouse death on Saturday morning — even telling one of his lawyers, “I’ll see you Sunday,” The Post has learned.

The convicted pedophile also told his lawyers that the neck injuries he suffered in an earlier incident at the Metropolitan Correctional Center were inflicted by his hulking, ex-cop cellmate, which led the lawyers to request that he be taken off a suicide watch, according to a source familiar with Epstein’s case.

Epstein’s optimism behind bars — expressed during daily visits with his lawyers that lasted up to 12 hours each — was so great that it struck some of those around him as “delusional,” the source said.

Keep in mind that Epstein's attorneys are still bound by confidentiality even in death, and should not be discussing Epstein with anyone for any reason. Not one of those statements is sourced or confirmed in any way, but all have been stated as fact right here on ATS and elsewhere. Every other article I have found sharing those same statements are sourced back to the NY Post as fact -- which is technically true in that the NY Post did publish those unsourced leaks and rumors, but essentially false in that the NY Post provides no official confirmation for the leaks and rumors.

Here is Fox News' account:

Epstein on Friday even innocuously bid goodbye to one of the lawyers with whom he'd been meeting, saying, "I'll see you Sunday," according to the New York Post.

And this from Newsmax:

Jeffrey Epstein was in "great spirits" Friday before his death, offering no signs of being suicidal, even telling one of his lawyers in his last words, "I'll see you Sunday," the N.Y. Post reported.

"Every day he was very positive and the night before he was real positive," a source told the Post. "He was in great spirits the night before."

When presented as confirmed fact, it is disinfo. Plain and simple. Whether intended by the poster or not. And quite frankly, ATSers should be better than that. ATSers should be denying ignorance and demanding facts. ATSers should be part of the solution, not part of the problem. But every time one of us states an unsubstantiated anonymous "leak" or rumor as fact, we are perpetuating ignorance... and the lies of the PTB. We are giving credibility to their cover story.

Just consider the sources. Pretty much everything we think we "know" about the Epstein's "suicide" is based upon unsourced and unsubstantiated leaks and rumors from "insiders". INSIDERS!!! It's ALL smoke and mirrors. We're being played to prop up their deception. And it's freaking working...

My best guess is that Epstein was switched out -- probably put in Witness Protection -- and the Feds knew without a doubt that whatever happened to Epstein that the official story would be questioned and dissected with a fine tooth comb. So they had to concoct and plant a convincing story for those most likely to doubt and question and dissect the story, hence a pre-emptive "suicide" attempt, followed by a successful "suicide," seemingly leaked by an anonymous posting on a conspiracy website an hour before it was made public, which naturally is further "confirmed" by the subsequent news reports.

But NOTHING has been confirmed. NOTHING!!!

I have no doubt that there are shills on ATS whose sole purpose is to introduce and perpetuate disinfo... but I also have no doubt that there others who are simply too lazy or ignorant to do their own due diligence. And these are the folks being played bigtime with their own consent and cooperation. And there's no good excuse for that. None. Especially on ATS.

If this makes me the bad guy and the spoilsport, so be it. I'll take it. It's that important.

But if you resemble my remarks above, don't get mad... don't get even... and don't get played... prove me wrong. Be scrupulous with your words. I don't think it's ever been more crucial.

That is something I have noticed a lot of here. Whole threads people are stating things they heard or were written earlier in the thread as fact...but when you look at the actual source or even where their source got their info it turns out to be very different.

Take the email address that Hillary's server was sending all the emails to. Right in the ICIG report that was declassified yesterday it says they were unable to confirm if it indeed was owned by the Chinese company its named after. They also state they didn't investigate any of that as its not their job...they passed on that info the the parties whos job it was. Yet here on ATS you will hear as fact it was indeed owned by that Chinese company.

Great thread topic and I hope this reaches more people in the community and motivates them to be more diligent and responsible with sourcing and reporting facts as opposed to rumors.

This scum is part of the 1%. You think you can capture a 1%-er? He's so rich and connected.

I would like to think that someone like him is not on this realm anymore. However, this is not the case. He is alive somewhere, doing the same things, clearly with out consequence.

People should have raided his Island before the cover-up government instead of the Area 51 disaster. IMO

a reply to: Boadicea

S&F BTW

I totally agree with your statements. Almost every piece of info we have is unsubstantiated. It’s a disinformation campaign at its finest. But how can we expect anything less, considering Epstein was obviously connected — most likely CIA.

As predicted, the MSM is slowly moving away from the story. Soon, we won’t even hear about Epstein in the MSM.

By the fact that Ghislaine is still walking the streets of LA, and not incarcerated, speaks volumes. Her grandiose re emergence — reading a bizarre book on the CIA, was obviously a message to the public. Which IMO, was her clearly implying that Epstein was CIA. But tomorrow, she will be at McDonald’s, free as a bird — and no one can understand why.

None of it makes sense.

a reply to: RickyD

Thank you -- another very good example. And yes, I did notice it as well. It's not just the Epstein saga.

And to that end, again and again we see allegations made against Hillary personally, when the whole truth clearly shows it was Hillary's campaign or Hillary's spokesperon or Hillary's this, that or the other loose connection... but when it comes to anything Obama, it's always Obama's DOJ or Obama's White House or Obama's this, that or the other thing. Never personally blaming Obama.

We must be scrupulous with our words!!!

a reply to: SirKonstantin

People should have raided his Island before the cover-up government instead of the Area 51 disaster. IMO

Something weird about this... I believe it was searched previously, but without all the brouhaha. But this search sure got a whole lot of attention, eh?

There is also no doubt that someone has been on the island since Epstein's arrest in early July, so there may have been very good reason to search it. Was it to find whatever someone(s) were doing while Epstein sat in jail? Was it all for show? We don't know. But it sure makes good fodder for the masses.

a reply to: Boadicea

One thing we can be sure of the government does know the truth 100%... courtesy of the NSA. Regardless of their ability to use the info in court due to the nature of how its collected...it is collected. My only hope is the good actors have control there. That agency might just be the only one in our country that has all the pieces.

originally posted by: KKLOCO
I totally agree with your statements. Almost every piece of info we have is unsubstantiated. It’s a disinformation campaign at its finest. But how can we expect anything less, considering Epstein was obviously connected — most likely CIA.

Funny you should mention CIA. I found this yesterday in an article from 2001:

Epstein "has a license to carry a concealed weapon, once claimed to have worked for the CIA--although he now denies it--and owns properties all over America," Rosser noted.

Wexner's royal connection

And if you have some time and the inclination for a long but very informative read, check this out:
Mega Group, Maxwells and Mossad: The Spy Story at the Heart of the Jeffrey Epstein Scandal

As predicted, the MSM is slowly moving away from the story. Soon, we won’t even hear about Epstein in the MSM.

Sounds about right... establish the story, then move away before too many questions are asked...

By the fact that Ghislaine is still walking the streets of LA, and not incarcerated, speaks volumes. Her grandiose re emergence — reading a bizarre book on the CIA, was obviously a message to the public. Which IMO, was her clearly implying that Epstein was CIA. But tomorrow, she will be at McDonald’s, free as a bird — and no one can understand why.

Yeah, I'm not convinced that's even Ghislaine... just a little too convenient for me. But I haven't had time to check it out too closely yet.

None of it makes sense.

Not unless we consider it one huge disinfo cover story for the benefit of the masses.

Heres one where someone was telling me he only had 1 guard watching over him that evening:
claim to only having 1 guard

Why would they keep him alive?
Especially if they have all his info.
Seems like a massive investment for exactly what?

originally posted by: MrNeo
Why would they keep him alive?
Especially if they have all his info.
Seems like a massive investment for exactly what?

Because everyone behind the scenes, are clearly not on the same side. Hence, all the disinformation being reported. Our own president is calling out a previous president in this very case.

a reply to: RickyD

My only hope is the good actors have control there.

I certainly hope so as well. But I'm also wondering if this isn't the public face of a covert civil war so to speak within the intelligence agencies. It is significant that Mueller was in charge of the FBI at the time of Epstein's plea deal, the same FBI Epstein reportedly "provided information" to, and promised no further prosecution as long as Epstein fulfilled his end of the plea deal with the state.

And AG Barr is by no means above my suspicion, especially after I read this regarding his father, Donald Barr:

Another member of the Mega Group worth noting is Laurence Tisch, who owned CBS News for several years and founded Loews Corporation. Tisch is notable for his work for the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the precursor to the CIA, where Donald Barr, who hired Epstein at the Dalton School, also served and which forged ties with Lansky’s criminal empire during World War II.

Mega Group, Maxwells and Mossad: The Spy Story at the Heart of the Jeffrey Epstein Scandal

Nothing is what it seems... or perhaps, more accurately, everything is more than it seems.

This is up there with Kennedy and 911. And dont forget pizzagate. I find it funny that every new detail that comes out warrants 10 new threads as well. Almost as if to dilute the overall info.

This think stinks no matter what political affiliation one leans too as it affects everone.

I havd long believed the NSA rules this country...just think about it. Judge gets elected and the NSA runs a history check on his puter and dude is into chinese midget porn. Bam....compromised and able to be exploited.
Times this by every single elected official.

Think about all those expressions a GB seniors funeral. Hmm......

originally posted by: Alchemst7
Heres one where someone was telling me he only had 1 guard watching over him that evening:
claim to only having 1 guard

Oh yes -- the guards! We've been told there were no guards, there were constant guards, there was one guard, there were two guards -- and that they were "sleeping."

But absolutely nothing has been confirmed by official sources.

a reply to: Boadicea

But NOTHING has been confirmed. NOTHING!!!

That's pretty much true with any subject in the above top secret world.
Unless you see it with your own eyes or hear it with your own ears, you are always depending on someone else to give you the story.
Who can we believe?
The government will lie to us.
The news media lies to us, in addition to just plain old getting things wrong.

originally posted by: MrNeo
Why would they keep him alive?
Especially if they have all his info.
Seems like a massive investment for exactly what?

Well, if Epstein is now in the Witness Protection program, then presumably to testify in an upcoming trial, and most likely a public official, since the charges originated in the public corruption division.

The next obvious question is who could Epstein possibly testify against that would be more important than prosecuting Epstein himself? It would have to be someone big... someone at the very top of the chain... someone Epstein reported to personally perhaps???

If we assume Epstein is in fact intel, who did Epstein report to? Who was receiving the blackmail videos from Epstein?

originally posted by: lakenheath24
I find it funny that every new detail that comes out warrants 10 new threads as well. Almost as if to dilute the overall info.

Indeed. Even if not intended, it serves the same purpose.

I havd long believed the NSA rules this country...just think about it. Judge gets elected and the NSA runs a history check on his puter and dude is into chinese midget porn. Bam....compromised and able to be exploited.
Times this by every single elected official.

Me too. Again and again it has been confirmed one way or another that Big Gov is spying on everyone -- no one is safe from their prying eyes. Including the media, judges, congress critters, and so on. Of course that will have a very chilling effect on people, and they will act (and react) accordingly.

a reply to: KKLOCO

As predicted, the MSM is slowly moving away from the story. Soon, we won’t even hear about Epstein in the MSM.

I don't agree. They are actually keeping pace with every revelation. They are reporting that no one is calling foul and that is probably the only place where they differ from what is written on these boards.
Today they were reporting that Maxwell was spotted in LA. They do profiles on her relationship to Epstein.
They have reported on the new lawsuit against epstein's estate due to a change in the statute of limitations in NY brought by one of his victims.
They have reported on the broken neck bones. And its been on the news every day since he died.

To be honest, no story, no matter how sensational, stays on page one forever.

The current POTUS and a former POTUS were buds. Not to mention the Queen of Englands son. If dude was allowed to live its because he has promised to shut his face and live on an island full of 12 year old kids. The big dogs aint gonna give up their game...no way.


a reply to: Boadicea

a reply to: butcherguy

That's pretty much true with any subject in the above top secret world.

You're right. And what makes it possible is that the truth has become criminalized. Investigations that drag out forever and then we're told "no evidence" but all evidence is classified... whistleblowers charged with crimes for revealing wrongdoing... secret courts and gag orders... leaks and rumors but no one to confirm or debunk.

We need sunshine. We need the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. We can figure it out.