Autopsy Finds Broken Bones in Jeffrey Epstein’s Neck, Deepening Questions Around His Death

a reply to: RickinVa

...if electronic, does the FBOP employ the PROMIS software?

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: RickinVa

...if electronic, does the FBOP employ the PROMIS software?

I have no idea what the actual program is. Just seems to me that it would be be very similar any normal access control programs.


I did find this:

correctionalnews.com...

Games Inmates Play

Trash in the strike: The easiest way to defeat a lock is to stuff trash into the strike preventing the latch bolt from fully extending. In this state, the lock can easily be “carded.” Inmates often use their identification cards or even a string to retract the compromised latch bolt. To know if a strike has been “trashed” — look at the security indicator light on the control panel. It will be illuminated red.

Wedging the bolt: Similar to trash in the strike, inmates will attempt to wedge small thin objects between the latch bolt and the lock housing hoping to prevent the latch bolt from fully extending. Caution — physical inspection is often a routine method employed in detention facilities to discover an inmate’s attempt to trash his strike or wedge the latch bolt. Be aware that inmates often place sharp objects into the strike hoping to discourage officers from probing it with their fingers. Always use a tool to probe strikes or remove wedged objects from a latch bolt.

Slipping the bolt: Another creative way to defeat the latch bolt is to carefully place a sheet of paper horizontally over the latch bolt and frame as the door is closed. The paper “bridges” the strike opening allowing the latch bolt to partially engage but not set the dead lock mechanism. Exiting the cell is simple, while placing slight pressure on the door the “tail” of the paper is slowly retracted. This “ramps” the latch bolt out of the strike and the door easily disengages. Again, the only defense for this condition is to observe the door status indicator lights on the control panel.

It mentions the control panel function. Looks like the control panel may only show a opened/closed position on a cell door lock. Simple electronic circuit with no software.

Oh well, at least it was worth a shot. It is very interesting to read the ways that inmates come up with to tamper with the locks.

a reply to: RickinVa

It's used by banks, law enforcement, intelligence agencies, and has backdoor access built in.

There are several versions of it.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

After reading the cell door article....leads me back to IF it was murder.......almost certainly an inmate. It wouldn't have been that difficult, judging from the article.

We already know the guards are overworked, one was not qualified to be a guard, sleeping on shift, not following the schedules etc......

If they weren't doing the simple things like head counts...do you really think they were checking the locks closely? These guys had all the time in the world to get in and out of their cell undetected...because if no one is looking at the control panel.........

More and more the murder scenario points right back to prisoner on prisoner violence.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
That's only the simplest explanation if it's possible to do with what was in the room at the time.

True, and I don't know what in the room at the time, besides his own clothes and the bed clothes. I have seen many references to "paper sheets" but I haven't seen any reference to an official statement about it.

But, on the other hand, a murder would also need things from outside the room, more than those needed for a suicide, so I still think the suicide is the simplest explanation.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I agree, except that nothing about this indicates that is what actually happened.

OK, could you list the facts that indicate that a suicide didn't happen?

Look, this crime needs to be investigated not ONLY from the angle of that miserable, filthy prison but also what happened outside the prison even before Epstein was locked up.

We need to know, why all of a sudden did the SDNY choose out of the blue to indict him? Why now?

After more than a decade. After the same Justice department initiated a deal in 2008 when he pleaded guilty.

(CNN)The sex trafficking indictment against multi-millionaire Jeffrey Epstein dates to incidents between 2002 and 2005 and contains allegations that have been public for more than a decade.
Why, then, did prosecutors in New York move to arrest Epstein on Saturday and unseal a federal indictment against him on Monday? Why did this case happen now?
US Attorney Geoffrey Berman declined to spell out the case's exact origins but said it remained vital all these years later.
"It's still a very important case and it means a great deal to the alleged victims here that they have their day in court," he said.

link

The federal prosecutor won’t tell us WHY!

Why is that important?

Because most likely the case against Epstein was very weak and depended on a newspaper article from Florida, not real investigatory work....And Epstein lawyers probably would have eaten the prosecution alive!

Not to mention the possibility of double jeopardy, which Epstein powerful dream team of lawyers would certainly have brought up.

The point is he may have had no motive to kill himself since it may have been a weak case and he might have known it from his lawyers.

WAS THIS ALL A SETUP TO GET HIM CLOSE SO HE COULD BE ASSASSINATED?
Therefore, maybe a judicial murder.

originally posted by: RickinVa
After reading the cell door article....leads me back to IF it was murder.......almost certainly an inmate. It wouldn't have been that difficult, judging from the article.

They would need to do the same to his cell door, and that wouldn't be as easy, right?

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I agree, except that nothing about this indicates that is what actually happened.

OK, could you list the facts that indicate that a suicide didn't happen?

To be fair, this hasn't been ruled a suicide.

Is there overwhelming evidence pointing towards suicide? I certainly don't think so.

a reply to: burntheships

WWAAYYY too long a thread to read through so I thought I'd reply to the OP since they might be following it.

IDK if anyone has mentioned how difficult it is to break a neck, even with hanging. This is why a hangmen's job was "difficult" b/c the drop from the platform had to be far enough to snap the neck and not just suffocate them. For an "average" size male, IIRC it was 8-10ft drop, which is why women were more difficult to hang, as they needed a longer drop because they were lighter. But if they miscalculated BY ALOT, (by near 2x the needed drop), decapitation would often occur.

I'm sure there is no way for a drop like this to occur in a jail cell - but who knows, maybe he was in the "presidential palace jail suite" with 25ft ceilings with Vietnamese sex swings and 15-20ft tall waterslide into his own pool or XL Jacuzzi?

The only way I could conceive of a broken neck in a normal cell would be securing a rope of long "scarf" into the door and running full speed until it snapped, but I think that near impossible as well, THAT MIGHT break they hyoid bone.

I know wiki states that 27% of hangings result in hyoid bones breaking but I have a feeling those numbers are only as accurate as the detectives and ME's examining the bodies. I would venture a guess that MANY of these "hangings" are the result of strangulation with either rope (like with a garrote of the type of rope later used to string the victim up), which would make the ligature marks match and the strangulation as such would break the hyoid, or by hands which VERY often break the hyoid. The angle of hanging & equal distribution of pressure around the neck isn't so conducive to breaking the hyoid bone, unlike using hands or using a knotted rope/garotte (placed at the location of the hyoid). I suspect that many of the "hangings" quoted in Wiki are in fact murders made ot look like hangings, which after time, there so many with broken hyoid bones, it just becomes "common" to the ME and they don't think "murder then strung up", any longer.

*edit: if the gallows were already built and it wasn't high enough to ensure breaking the neck, they would put stones or other heavy things in their pockets or something. That is why in some movies you would see the "judge" walking along in front of those to be executed and either adding or removing these weights, to ensure a faster death, or to make them suffer (if weights were removed).

Here are some images of gallows and you can see how high they were made to ensure proper drop, some 8ft or more. The drop was usually not too far above the ground (mabye 4-12") to make sure they couldn't touch & support themselves..

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: RickinVa
After reading the cell door article....leads me back to IF it was murder.......almost certainly an inmate. It wouldn't have been that difficult, judging from the article.

They would need to do the same to his cell door, and that wouldn't be as easy, right?

Under normal guard circumstances....It would be very difficult to do either......with half assed guard duty...I could easily see someone slip something in Epsteins Cell lock so that it doesn't lock completely...do the same to their cell and wait...so as the opportunity arises, pop out, kill him, remove what you used to jam the lock, go back to your cell.

His cell mate was removed before his death.....he could have comprised the lock before he was moved.

I can see that as a very likely scenario given tired guards, unqualified guards,,,, prisoners have 24/7 to plan crap.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Bigburgh

Or the bones were 67 years old and more fragile than a younger persons which is what I am hearing.
But I don't watch conspiracy theory news so I could be missing a completely different angle.

No, as older with bone density issues. Brittle bones.
Epstein did not appear to look as of recent to have a hunched posture or the other signs.

But I don't have access to Epstein's medical records or know his PMHx or if he was ever Tx for osteoporosis or osteogenis imperfecta...


Edit:

The source said that Epstein, who was six feet tall, asphyxiated himself by leaning toward the floor while on his knees.

www.crimeonline.com...


Waiting for an actual report from the coroner though.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
To be fair, this hasn't been ruled a suicide.

True.

Is there overwhelming evidence pointing towards suicide? I certainly don't think so.

How many people were in the room at the time? All evidence I have seen point to one, himself.

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
IDK if anyone has mentioned how difficult it is to break a neck, even with hanging.

They say "multiple breaks in his neck bones" not that he had a broken neck.

This is from 2009, and I don't know if anything's changed in the last ten years, but it has pics of a prisoner's cell (with bunkbeds) at MCC:

Inside Bernard Madoff's new home: the Metropolitan Correctional Center prison in Manhattan

Maybe someone who knows can post the pic here? And then tell me how to do it too pretty please???

originally posted by: RickinVa
His cell mate was removed before his death.....he could have comprised the lock before he was moved.

I wasn't thinking about that, that would make things easier, but he had to be in contact with the other inmates, so they could know that his cell door wouldn't be closed.

originally posted by: Bigburgh

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Bigburgh

Or the bones were 67 years old and more fragile than a younger persons which is what I am hearing.
But I don't watch conspiracy theory news so I could be missing a completely different angle.

No, as older with bone density issues. Brittle bones.
Epstein did not appear to look as of recent to have a hunched posture or the other signs.

But I don't have access to Epstein's medical records or know his PMHx or if he was ever Tx for osteoporosis or osteogenis imperfecta...

I'm guessing Epstein was pretty healthy bone wise as i'm guessing he had a pretty good diet and physician care. I'm sure he could afford supplements, or medications if he had any signs of bone degredation, and people who have good diets often never have these issues unless it's a genetic thing.

I'm also willing to bet this guy was on some things like HGH (and even more advanced drugs than HGH that are banned in sports, but VERY VERY effective, much more than HGH) that greatly strenthen bone density. I'm guessing he was on HRT at that age, with his predilictions. A 70yr old man't testoserone drops A LOT compared to a 15-35yr old man, which is why men can't maintain the muscle mass at later years. This also effects sex drive and performance. I have a feeling if we look into his med records or autopsy we'll see signs of the above which would most likely help him maintain strong bones b/c people usually eat pretty well on those meds because it has extreme synergysitc effects while on the steroids and HGH(and stronger) medications.

If you want to know what HGH does to bone growth and density take a look at Arnold. Look at how his face has changed since he was 18. That ain't natrual ageing, that's 60 years of HGH use, the brow ridge, cheeks, shoulder blades, elbows, etc. it makes bones elongate in some places and also makes them more dense. That is why some people who are very vain have a lot of surgeries (those who use HGH), they are having the bones shaved down so they don't look like some of the older HGH monsters from the old days b/f the bone growth was understood.

Footage of the event...

Warning... Very distasteful...
Also, this is just a joke people, I'm sure it didn't go down like this, didn't seem violent enough to break bones.

a reply to: Willtell

Thank you!!! I've been wanting to know this:

The sex trafficking indictment against multi-millionaire Jeffrey Epstein dates to incidents between 2002 and 2005 and contains allegations that have been public for more than a decade.

So these aren't new allegations, or new victims, or new crimes. But new criminal charges are filed even as they are fighting in court to keep civil documents sealed from those same victims and allegations and crimes. And even though the Feds assured that they would not file federal charges as long as Epstein kept up his side of the deal with Florida.

It makes no sense. Unless we consider there is much much more to it.

So what did change??? (Rhetorical question obviously...)

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Drinking can cause issues too, as well steroids.
Rickett, Scurvy many things...

I don't know his PMHx.