Thought Experiment - Your Thoughts??

Isaac Asimov once asked which has had more impact on humanity: The Russian Revolution or the telephone? You can't stop technology.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I will have to firmly disagree that the genie is out.

It will be, of that I have little doubt.. But not quite yet. Its not fully in the open and supported by the general public, for one.

Secondly, the stuff that is out there (including things that are not public information) is enough to give me pause, but not advanced enough yet. We will start to see the stuff that really concerns me in 5-10 years.

Importantly though, the cork in the particular bottle Im talking about is held by general pushback by the public. Once that pressure starts to lessen more and more, and it will, that cork will pop out like a rocket. In this, the "genie" isnt so much about the state of technology itself, but the cultural acceptance of how that technology is (ab)used. There is still far, far too much resistance for me to be convinced the genie is out. Its still held back by culture and being "not quite there yet" from a technological standpoint. Sure, there is stuff that is advanced enough to be scary and subversively pervasive enough to be a problem though.

This is, or was, my area of work as well (automation, AI, optimization). One of my canaries in the coal mine is the open solving of things like P vs NP and the lighter the framework is, the less pressure there will be on the cork.

a reply to: Serdgiam

It's already out there. The stuff we do know is close. The stuff we don't know like whatever the Nimitz and its pilots saw was beyond comprehension.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Also in my experience the public doesn't even know what block chain is, what crispr is, what Google has already achieved etc..by the time they catch up it will be a Google world.

It's like the weather. Everybody talks about mind control but nobody does anything about it.

a reply to: Blue Shift

To be realistic about this,what can we do to stop it?

originally posted by: mamabeth
a reply to: Blue Shift

To be realistic about this,what can we do to stop it?

Exactly.

a reply to: mamabeth
I don't think we can.

We are dealing with generations that have been weaned from the tit by technology. It is as normal to them as breathing. Those that would question and are concerned about the negative potential of technology are growing old, ineffective, and dying.

The future is in the young, and they are so immersed in the system that there is no real division between their virtual world and the real world. They see no need to slow it down or to stop it.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: mamabeth
The future is in the young, and they are so immersed in the system that there is no real division between their virtual world and the real world. They see no need to slow it down or to stop it.

Yup. It's called evolution, and that requires old people to shut up and die.

a reply to: luthier

I still disagree that its out there, thats fine though.. Right? There is plenty that concerns me, mind you.. Probably exactly the things you are thinking about, up to and including items that are not even remotely public knowledge. Im coming at this topic as someone who worked on things that concern me significantly more than both what the public knows, and the things beyond that.

Please think about what Im saying here. For as much as there should be concern.. These things are relatively minor in context. Massive data collection, AI driven marketing and propaganda, predictive policing, IoT, gene editing etc. are all either getting their foothold or firmly have one. How these will shape our culture and society over time is absolutely concerning, so..

I think we can all agree there is cause for concern that is unique to our current stage of technological development. Thats probably more important than anything.

a reply to: Serdgiam

AGI and bioengineering developing side by side gives me the creeps. Most people dont know about generic engineering and how AI is literally how it's done.

How would you explain the Nimitz event? Obviously it has far too many levels of observation to call a glitch. I mean the heat signature alone defies what we know of thermodynamics.

a reply to: luthier

Meanwhile politics is making flint spears for the tribes.

Zoom, right to it. These left right games we are playing are all based on whose version of the past will win out when in reality the future could give a crap about any of that.

Wise words. Might already be here.

a reply to: luthier

They creep me out too.. My biggest concern with genetic engineering is painting ourselves into a corner that we wont see the walls of until generations down the line. I feel this is especially true for our own species and our food supply. Its sounds dramatic, but we could be engineering our own slow-burn extinction.

I liken most of this to the advent of the transistor versus the internet. We are seeing the "transistors" of our age, so to speak, and they are concerning as hell. I simply cant imgine that the stuff that is only fluttering at the edge of our imagination is going to be less problematic.

As for the Nimitz event, I wouldn't really attempt to explain it. Its either human, or it isnt, and both scenarios have their own concerns. But, either way, the military is the one to control the information and that concerns me as well.

While I absolutely have problems with the MIC, I strongly support the notion of military "might" as a concept. However, they will innately look at everything in a militaristic context, and that could very well create problems that wouldnt otherwise exist.

I will say that there is some sort of advanced surveillance in the wild though. At least, beyond something relatively "simple" like listening through phones or other devices, or more traditional means. Always interesting to get phone calls referencing conversations that never, ever took place near technology of any sort...

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Excellent post Disk.

I think that it is going to first come about voluntary. For the more trendy people who want to get rid of some general thought patterns they don't like in themselves. Instead of months or years of counseling and self work they will just to to the brain doctor with his needle or what ever and 'snip' cut out that thought process. Out damn Spot.

Then of course it will be to straighten out our kids and some of their problems. Simple snip and bingo now he likes spinach.
And then prisoners and on until most do it willingly and those others well,,,,

And as Noclue suggests early on in the tread, there goes diversity.

Years ago I read all the Phillipi K Dick stuff I could lay wrap my mind around. One novel, I forget which, used some of this as his premise, the ability for authorities to read our minds. The protagonist needed to keep a secret from the cops as he was going in for an interview. So what he did was to go to an ex-advertising jingle writer and had him write a specific jingle for him that he could activate with a thought when the cops began their questioning and ''zip'' that jingle would then start up blanketing all else that was going on in his brain for 24 hours.

And indeed this is an example of how this is already going on around us all the time. Adverts that fill our brain with catchy slogans and musics, all designed to take over our minds. Don't forget, Be All That You Can Be, and one of my favorites '' At McDonalds'' We do it alllll for you u u. When my kids were young and they began singing that I went through the roof and told them it was ok to sing all they wanted but I had better not catch them singing commercials.

Anyway Disk, good thread with plenty to think about.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Yikes Snowden didnt know cht.

For me once I chose to believe Nimitz wqs either alien or ours and most likely too many levels to be a hoax if not psyop...I started researching how it could even move like that which leads to altering gravity/spacetime with massive amount of energy that is so efficient it doesn't give off wasted heat.

So..way passed AI imo.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Because, none of this is really about random individuals that may find ways around it. Its about molding the general public, and the fringes are largely irrelevant to that (and have been).

Can we actually stop any of it? I honestly dont know.. I highly doubt it. So many are just wrapped up in either "all technology is bad" or "all technology is kewl." The former removes themselves from the conversation entirely, and the latter will support anything as long as its shiny and new with attractive packaging.

Above, I think you make two major points that go together like peas in a pod. One is the general public though I would call it the ''consuming public'' being the major target. Then to that you mention the'' shiny and new with attractive packaging''.
This to is designed to ensnare the general consumer getting sales until the next shiny and new fad comes along to ''gettem again''. And they hardly notice that that expensive shoe is functionally the same as the last except for the, you know, attractive packaging.

a reply to: luthier

I feel like rather than being "beyond AI," its simply a different facet. And, thats part of what makes this topic so tricky.

There are so, so many different aspects to "technology" at this stage in our development/understanding and I feel like thats its own huge, massive conversation. To fully detail how each and every piece is a concern would take so long that that particular gate is kept simply by its own depth and breadth.

Hey.. Maybe AI can help there

For AI specifically, I suspect its going to "take over" whether we like it or not. I dont believe there will be a middle ground on the end result, it will either be the best thing to happen to our species, or the worst (at least until the next "thing" comes along, if it comes along). I lean towards the latter, but I suppose we will find out. Honestly, most of my posts are speaking directly to AI, either now or in the future.

Philosophically, I find it interesting that there seems to be a litmus test vis a vis cultural/social/societal responsibility and the advancement of our tools. Once our tools become advanced enough, we are faced with advancing our civilization similarly to meet the responsibility. Or perish.

a reply to: Serdgiam

While you may be right here Ser, about the genie not yet being totally out of the box, but the thing about genies is that it doesn't pop out like a jack in the box but rather just seeps out even when we think we have the lid closed.

Recall how only a few years ago the big media rush about cloning? Centered around that sheep, I forget the name. Lucy or Doris or some such? Oh there was quite a fervor and if I recall there was some legislation passed to hinder the continuance of cloning. But wanna bet even that is moving ahead now full bore with little to no attention being focused on it?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

It's scary and I think it is already being tested.

For example, I was thinking of a product I purchased about 3 years ago. I did not search for this product,
did not talk about this product. Same day that product shows up in one of my feeds. I've had this happen a few times.

I'm sure there is some kind of predictive analytics companies use, but this was weird. It was a very specific product and something that isn't purchased regularly. It has happened more than once. I would understand seeing ads for things that you buy, but but think of a very very specific item and to see an ad the same day... the chances of that...??

pass the aluminum!